7/24/10 - Law professor finds bloody child sock on Black Butte & questions the system

[Adalena935]

Just a question: Is this the Black Butte area outside of Roseburg?

There's a map at the OP's link. Just scroll down.

 

[Adalena935]

But 9-1-1 is not the appropriate place to check it out - computer systems have limitations - take it in directly - don't expect LE to come have coffee with you.


I personally have used a sock to wrap up and mop up - so to speak- a wound. I can think of a few other things you may use it for in case of emergency. A scrape on the leg that bleeds freely for a bit could easily create a bloody sock. I'm not discounting that it should be looked at, I'm saying there are procedures and he could have met them half way.

I was replying to the other person's post.

I don't believe all lay folks should be expected know public service protocol.

For one that's what the more simplified 911 is for; so the responding 911 operator can connect the caller with the appropriate agency.

 

[akashana]

I am thoroughly disgusted at the lack of professionalism, initiative and common sense of the 911 dispatchers and LE personnel mentioned above in the article. While the bloody sock may not have had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, it certainly could have, and LE was in the midst of a search and rescue/recovery operation seeking a 7 year-old boy. They requested tips from the public, sent out questionaires. Was this simply a dog and pony show? What might a savvy defense attorney now do with this juicy morsel of unlikely but possibly exculpatory evidence? What if Terri really is innocent of causing harm to Kyron? There has been no body found, no suspect arrested. Therefore, theoretically all leads should be investigated, all possible evidence secured by proper evidence chain protocols.

This is distressing, to say the least. Kyron certainly deserves better from those sworn to protect and serve.

 

[human]

the author's story unfortunately mirrors my experience with LE where I live.

One time to report the teen neighbor and friend physically abusing a much younger sib, another time making a report of a child shot with a weapon ( not a gun with bullets).

Other lesser things such as being ripped off by a home salesperson and another being pickpocketed.

Another where a burglar came to case out our home for a burglary (he also went to other neighbor's homes-that's how we figured out what he was doing)

Then there are other petty issues that I won't go into here, except to say one .

We live at the end of a scenic drive and people are always dropping off garbage on the road. We go through it and call the people to come and get it.

One time my son went through it and had a nasty reply from the owner. So he called LE and they asked him very snotty if he thought he was CSI. It went downhill from there. My son called his wife and my hubby (just 1/2 mile away) because they were getting so ridiculous. That ended that.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Last summer, I came across a lost child wandering in my street - I got someone on their balcony to call 911, and a cop was there within 10 minutes, with no hassles at all - but that was still the longest 10 minutes of my life, since the child was obviously scared out of his wits and unable/unwilling to speak a word. I cannot imagine what it would have been like if we had been given a run around on it.

I understand that funding/staffing is tight, and that there is a lot of weird detritus on streets and trails that might look more alarming than they really are when a child is missing, and possibly murdered... but can LE really take the chance to dismiss such finds? It is increasingly obvious to me that LE has no clue where Kyron is or what really happened to him. I think, at this point, they really can't afford to be so glib on any possible lead. (JMHO)

I am glad this happened to someone who has the ability to express and publicize his frustrating experience. Who knows how many other leads have been tossed away because people were told it was nothing?

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, and I know there's dozens and dozens of false leads out there, but, really, this case has been going on long enough, and it's clear that LE needs to follow every possibility until they know what happened. It's not enough to declare "no other children are in danger" and let this one go cold until the media forgets about it. Kyron is still out there, along with dozens of other missing kids. Passing the buck and treating someone who is trying to help as an idiotic nuisance is not ok, IMO.

I'm glad he wrote this piece, and I am glad you posted it, OG.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

ok, I am not a fan of the PDX Police Department, and so far, I'm not sure I am a fan of MCSO - however,, this article is so written with a point to make 911 look bad it's almost laughable.

Let's look at it from the 911 perspective - (What is your emergency?) I have a bloody sock.
Not our department (remember emergencies) I'll put you through to the sheriff. - Totally appropriate response.

It's not at all unusual to see "sketchy" cars in and around black butte -
It's a resort area with lots of service people - and on the way to Bend (one direction) or to Salem/Portland the other direction. I think people forget how outdoorsy and rural most of Oregon is. It's not difficult to get your car dirty and dusty - especially if you're going camping with friends for a few days and are stopping at BB on the way home.

Why didn't someone who was going to hike a trail - not have water or a cell phone? Why didn't he just go take it to the Sheriff's dept and drop it off with a note for his contact information. Right down the hill from Black Butte is Sisters - there's a Sheriff's station there. Especially this time of year, it wouldn't be hard to find a Sheriff in town.

There are snakes, and rodents, there are stickers and thorns, there are blisters, kids ride mt. bikes and get hurt there....now, finding the CSI shirt bloodied, THAT would be worth this article. A sock with blood on it, with no "pools" of blood nearby is close to hysteria in my eyes.

I agree that he should have just marked the place found, bagged the sock, and taken it physically into a cop shop, rather than trying to get them to come to him. I agree that 911 was not really the best course of action in a non-emergency (though I think from his perspective the 911 call was more about the sock in connection with the vehicle than just the sock, to prevent the vehicle from getting away, so I guess it made sense to him).

My main concern about his experience, however, is that I am fairly sure they would have just thrown it in the trash there at the station had he brought it in, given the response of the people he spoke to, and that does concern me. Would it really hurt to bag it and write it up, at least for a while, just in case?

 

[21merc7]

I originally blew this off thinking cut, blister, what have you, until I thought about, and read the entire article. I do hope DNA is being tested and saved. More children than Kyron missing.

 

[21merc7]

I agree that he should have just marked the place found, bagged the sock, and taken it physically into a cop shop, rather than trying to get them to come to him. I agree that 911 was not really the best course of action in a non-emergency (though I think from his perspective the 911 call was more about the sock in connection with the vehicle than just the sock, to prevent the vehicle from getting away, so I guess it made sense to him).

My main concern about his experience, however, is that I am fairly sure they would have just thrown it in the trash there at the station had he brought it in, given the response of the people he spoke to, and that does concern me. Would it really hurt to bag it and write it up, at least for a while, just in case?

BBM;

Exactly, not okay, but it happens.

 

[ClueMeIn]

It wouldn't have hurt LE to test the sock, or at the very least secure it, and put it away for later.

I hate when LE shrugs off stuff like this. While chances are, it was nothing. What if it is a key in a missing child's case. Maybe not Kyron, but even another child.

 

[21merc7]

It wouldn't have hurt LE to test the sock, or at the very least secure it, and put it away for later.

I hate when LE shrugs off stuff like this. While chances are, it was nothing. What if it is a key in a missing child's case. Maybe not Kyron, but even another child.

I hope it has been saved. I get the feeling, perhaps not. Hope I am wrong.

At least this professor can now start to take a turn and maybe do something about being sure that things do not get overlooked. Fingers crossed!

 

[21merc7]

... from where Kyron was last seen. If I found a bloody sock in my yard, out by the road, I would just toss it in the trash. I'll bet there are bloody socks in many locations closer to Skyline School. I think this guy was just trying to insert himself into the story. Hikers get bloody blisters. A bloody shirt or trousers, that's a little more meaningful. But a bloody sock- I'll bet I can find one in my son's room right now. I can understand why the local cops weren't interested in what this publicity hound had to say.

Please, never, never touch anything bloody at all. Call the police. Anything out of the way, call them. Don't touch it, don't breathe on it, just call. Please.

Scenario number 1. You throw it in the trash. Your fingerprints and DNA are now on an article involved in a murder, kidnap, drug bust, what have you. Call the non-emergency number if you feel better, same person answers here in a city of over two hundred thousand, just call. Don't touch. You will not like the years of legal situations, loss of jobs, family, friends, possible jail time, possible conviction, just because you threw it away, and your DNA is on whatever the object may be.

 

[Morag]

...I don't live my life that way. If I find a bloody sock out front, I'll pick it up with a plastic bag and throw it away.

If I find a possession obviously belonging to someone else, I'll call them or take it to them. I am not in the least worried about being accused of something under those circumstances. And I'm almost certain that if I called the local non-emergency PD number, they would be polite, but not concerned. Usually, a bloody sock is just a sock with some blood on it, not a clue in a crime.

I live closer than 163 miles to New York City. A nasty discarded sock is not going to excite the police in NYC if it's in my front yard, and there were certainly some bloody crimes in New York over the past month.

They wouldn't make special band aids for heels if feet didn't bleed sometimes! I call the PD from time to time if I have a genuine concern- but finding someone's discarded sock wouldn't be one of those times.

I think this sock finder was just looking for attention. He could have easily driven to a cop shop and turned it in instead of turning it into a cat and mouse game.

 

[theissueathand]

This situation is very typical for what I have experienced for non emergency matters.

I had my home broken into while I was at work and $500 stolen by someone who had been staying with a neighbor. Another neighbor called me to let me know he saw the guy come out of my front door.

I called the cops and told them my home had been broken into while I was on the way. I went through four different "Hold please, let me transfer you"s before I actually got through to anyone who could even take my report.

It took them three hours to get to my home. I knew who the person was, there were many witnesses but they cops did absolutely nothing about it other than notify his PO being as he is already on probation. Because my sister had let him come and visit my apartment (unknown to me at the time) the cops said they couldn't press charges because he MAY have left something in my apartment, making him a resident. I call BS.

In laymens terms that means they just don't give a crap about non-emergency matters in an area as big as Portland Metro.

 

[shorty42404]

Maybe LE didn't think much of the bloody sock because they have enough evidence that Kyron is alive? Just trying to look on the bright side :smile:

 

[21merc7]

Maybe LE didn't think much of the bloody sock because they have enough evidence that Kyron is alive? Just trying to look on the bright side :smile:

Kyron is not the only child missing in Oregon. LE knows better. Not picking on you or your post, just saying LE knows better.

 

[shorty42404]

Kyron is not the only child missing in Oregon. LE knows better. Not picking on you or your post, just saying LE knows better.

Ah, didn't think of that, thank you :smile:

 

[pingpong]

For anyone concerned about the 911 system, here is a link to website of the Denise Amber Lee Foundation,the organization working to improve the system, including mandatory training and certification for all 911 operators.


This wife and mother of 2 young boys and daughter of a Police Officer lost her life because of this broken system.

Please take the time to become aware that this system needs help.

http://deniseamberlee.org/

Sorry if this is off topic, but I think it's really important. Mods, please delete if need be.

 

[Curious Me]

It wouldn't have hurt LE to test the sock, or at the very least secure it, and put it away for later.

I hate when LE shrugs off stuff like this. While chances are, it was nothing. What if it is a key in a missing child's case. Maybe not Kyron, but even another child.

BBM I agree. please, at least, bag the sock and keep it safe in case later you find a child's bloody shirt in the same area.

If they do find a child's bloody shirt in the same area next week, I hope they still have the sock - oh no, Joe threw it in the trash. Gee Whiz, who are these careless professionals who want to just throw evidence away that easily?

The man that found the sock went way out of his way to report this. I'm impressed if he is just a regular citizen. Or does everybody want their 15 minutes?

What would I do if I found a bloody sock on a pristine trail? Not sure I'd go carrying it around and calling 911, truthfully. I think I'd mark the spot and report it, but not take the sock. (he said it was bloody, and then he put it in his jeans pocket which I know I wouldn't do)

 

[Calliope]

I don't care how far away it was from where Kyron went missing. The fact is he was missing for many hours before LE was called in and started searching (they have frequently stated this was a major factor in this case). Desiree and Kaine have said he could be anywhere, although she said she believes he is still in Oregon.

But like cluciano posted above, that this could have been Kyron's sock wasn't the larger point being made here.

 

[evelyn24]

It wouldn't have hurt LE to test the sock, or at the very least secure it, and put it away for later.

I hate when LE shrugs off stuff like this. While chances are, it was nothing. What if it is a key in a missing child's case. Maybe not Kyron, but even another child.

DNA testing cost money and a lot of states are backed up on testing REAL evidence from known investigations/cases. I don't think LE is going to send over every random piece of clothing or shoe called in by citizens to be tested unless they can show a credible link to a crime or missing persons case.

I'm just surprised how many people here have never seen a random article of clothing or a shoe lying around in the woods or on the side of the road. I see things everyday on the side of the highway; a shirt here, or a shoe there, etc.
LE can't test all of that stuff. Especially a lone sock with a smudge of what could be blood without reason to believe there's some connection to a case.
There's only so much money and man power.