7 Yr Old Suspended

  • #21
BBM - I disagree. The school can't be bothered to take the time to review cases like this individually and that's the only reason this child is now in this mess. We're not talking about a hardened gang member or a child with a mental health/behavioral history (that we know of). Nor did he threaten anyone with it.

The suspension and further removal from the school is proof positive that it's just too difficult for the school to sit the child down and discuss the problems they feel an item like this can cause. Take it away for the day and send it home letting him know he cannot return with it.

His record is now forever tainted with this incident. All because he was proud to be a boyscout.

Yes, it's a fact. His mother is homeschooling him.

It's a fact that he actually went to reform school, or it's a fact that his mother, fearing he would go to reform school, chose to home school him, or it's a fact that his parents decided to homeschool him because of this whole experience? I'm not sure what it was you were saying.
 
  • #22
It's a fact that he actually went to reform school, or it's a fact that his mother, fearing he would go to reform school, chose to home school him, or it's a fact that his parents decided to homeschool him because of this whole experience? I'm not sure what it was you were saying.


He was suspended from his relular school for 45 days, he could attend "alternative school" for those 45 days. Alternative school is for children that can not behave appropriately ( totally out of control) in regular school. Mom decided to homeschool him instead.
 
  • #23
I guess my idea of "reform" school must be really outdated. Never having been in reform school, I thought it was court-mandated, not an "alternative" school, governed by the school district itself (meaning, I thought you were told by a judge to go there, not the principal).

I guess I'll change my view slightly -- that he shouldn't be grouped in with children who are "at risk", but he broke the rules, and for that, and that alone, there should be a consequence for his actions.

I'm not saying he should punished to the same extent as, say, a child who brings a loaded gun to school with the intent to cause harm, but, again, rules are rules, and there needs to be some consequence for his actions. If my view offends anyone, I apologize for that.
 
  • #24
I guess my idea of "reform" school must be really outdated. Never having been in reform school, I thought it was court-mandated, not an "alternative" school, governed by the school district itself (meaning, I thought you were told by a judge to go there, not the principal).

I guess I'll change my view slightly -- that he shouldn't be grouped in with children who are "at risk", but he broke the rules, and for that, and that alone, there should be a consequence for his actions.

I'm not saying he should punished to the same extent as, say, a child who brings a loaded gun to school with the intent to cause harm, but, again, rules are rules, and there needs to be some consequence for his actions. If my view offends anyone, I apologize for that.


I'm not offended.

A consequence for breaking a rule he wasn't even aware of? OK. How about a detention? He' would now be aware of the rule and I'm sure he wouldn't make the mistake again. Isn't that the whole point of a consequence?

I think it's a sad excuse for an education system when it wants to lump a terrific, smart, involved child in with a bunch of children, so out of control and disruptive, they can not be educated in a regular school setting.

In my mind, it's no different than tossing a lamb into a lion's cage and expecting the lamb to learn something.
 
  • #25
I'm not offended.

A consequence for breaking a rule he wasn't even aware of? OK. How about a detention? He' would now be aware of the rule and I'm sure he wouldn't make the mistake again. Isn't that the whole point of a consequence?

I think it's a sad excuse for an education system when it wants to lump a terrific, smart, involved child in with a bunch of children, so out of control and disruptive, they can not be educated in a regular school setting.

In my mind, it's no different than tossing a lamb into a lion's cage and expecting the lamb to learn something.

Ummm...as I said, I don't think he should be thrown in with the at risk kids, so we can stop beating that particular horse.

Let me ask you a question...if you ran a stop sign and got a ticket, would you say to the officer or judge at traffic court, "But I didn't even know it was there! I wasn't aware of it!" Do you think that should get you off the hook?
It's unfortunate that he needs to be punished for something he wasn't aware of, but I guess next time he'll think before bringing his toys to school. If they did nothing, then all the kids would bring things to school they shouldn't and use the excuse, "But I didn't know..." Kids are smarter than you give them credit for.
 
  • #26
Ummm...as I said, I don't think he should be thrown in with the at risk kids, so we can stop beating that particular horse.

Let me ask you a question...if you ran a stop sign and got a ticket, would you say to the officer or judge at traffic court, "But I didn't even know it was there! I wasn't aware of it!" Do you think that should get you off the hook?
It's unfortunate that he needs to be punished for something he wasn't aware of, but I guess next time he'll think before bringing his toys to school. If they did nothing, then all the kids would bring things to school they shouldn't and use the excuse, "But I didn't know..." Kids are smarter than you give them credit for.

Your question doesn't make sense to me in relation to this topic.

I don't think a 6 year old should know that EATING UTENSILS are considered weapons considering he uses them everyday at home.

A pencil can be used as a weapon, I noticed they didn't ban those......eyeroll....

It's outrageous and ridiculous and I am going to add this to the list I keep, of the hundreds of things wrong with public schools. Some other winners on that list are: the boy suspended from kindergarden for sexual harrassment for hugging another child, the boy that was suspended for using his hand as an imaginary gun during recess, the boys suspended a few years ago for playing cops and robbers on the playground using sticks as guns.
 
  • #27
My question was to illustrate that even if we are not aware of something, our actions have consequences. I was using an example that I felt an adult could relate to, since this is a situation that involves children, and it's been a long time since I have thought things through as a 7 year old. I hope that is more clear.

Again, let's just agree to disagree on this matter. There's really nothing more to be gained from further discussion.
 
  • #28
That is ridiculous and has to stop, it's obvious that a lot of these children are young, and do not fit a troubled profile.
It never was like this back when i was in school, i think a lot of parents and grandparents, we wouldn't think twice about bringing in a butter knife or freak out about a camping utensil tool, the schools have become a source of paranoia since those times, a lot has changed.
The Christina School district (where the boy in the article goes) seems to have had a lot of controversal incidents like this, going back to 2007 when a 3rd grader was expelled for a year because her grandmother sent her to school with a cake and cake knife to cut it for her birthday.
The article states "the teacher called in the principal- but not before using the knife to cut the cake"
That's disgraceful!
The schools need to go on a case by case basis, it's the only way, especially with these younger children.
They are getting conflicting signals, you have cub scouts giving them a camping tool which is perfectly fine, and then the school overreacting about it and suspending them.

Gee Whiz. Wonderful teacher we have here! I notice she made sure she got her piece of cake before reporting the knife.

From reading everyone else's posts, this little boy has gotten nothing but support....but did you read his last statement... "I think the rules are what's wrong, not me." Somehow, that phase just doesn't sit right with me. (Yes, the rules need to be more "uniform" -- someone had a good point -- scissors are allowed, but not this dull knife on a camping set???")

This particular district has a history of making stupid decisions, gal.

The child's statement, to me, is simply a statement of truth. As you say, the rules do need to be more uniform, and that (to me) means the rule as it stands now IS wrong! The cafeteria has eating utensils that are allowed to be used by the children, I can understand the child's confusion over the issue.


That's fine -- we can choose to disagree with each other regarding the "in this day and age" comment, and nobody needs to get hurt :D

While this may go on his juvenille "record," I doubt it will mar his adult life, unless he lets it.

Had his mother not decided to keep him home, the 45 days in that reform school (the district admits it is for "problem" children) could well have had a life long impact. Bad company corrupts good character! (It's a strange "sentence" to me, because if a kid brought a REAL weapon to school, 45 days in reform school wouldn't be nearly enough punishment! At the same time, it's too harsh for a little kid who wanted to show off his Boy Scout utensil!)

As an aside, his mom is lucky she had the choice to homeschool. If she'd have tried that in my district, she would have brought that child back to school in 45 days to be met at the door and be told "He can't come back until he serves his 45 days at reform school."


My question was to illustrate that even if we are not aware of something, our actions have consequences. I was using an example that I felt an adult could relate to, since this is a situation that involves children, and it's been a long time since I have thought things through as a 7 year old. I hope that is more clear.

Again, let's just agree to disagree on this matter. There's really nothing more to be gained from further discussion.

I understood what you meant with your question. Indeed, ignorance of the law is not considered to be a excuse for breaking the law. (This is getting harder to agree with since the "law" multiplies exponentially around here daily!) What six year old, however, would ever in a million years look at his Boy Scout utensil and consider it a weapon! He gets to use utensils in the school cafeteria, and in his mind his utensil would have been just the same, only way cooler!

I am glad to read in the latest posted article that the school district has decided to slam a couple of its brain cells together and try to come up with a coherent decision. Zero tolerance rules always seem to be so undefined that even a bobby pin can be considered a weapon! Or, as I mentioned earlier, a medicated Chap Stick can be considered a drug! The rules need to tighten up and define the parameters very clearly, so that kids who have real weapons and real drugs face the consequences, and little guys like this excited Boy Scout, who had no weapon at all, don't.
 
  • #29
Ummm...as I said, I don't think he should be thrown in with the at risk kids, so we can stop beating that particular horse.

Let me ask you a question...if you ran a stop sign and got a ticket, would you say to the officer or judge at traffic court, "But I didn't even know it was there! I wasn't aware of it!" Do you think that should get you off the hook?
It's unfortunate that he needs to be punished for something he wasn't aware of, but I guess next time he'll think before bringing his toys to school. If they did nothing, then all the kids would bring things to school they shouldn't and use the excuse, "But I didn't know..." Kids are smarter than you give them credit for.

No. Because to get a driver's license I had to pass a test that proved I understood what a stop sign meant. But that is a reason why a new traffic light has to be in place but covered, and then just blinking for a period of time before it starts working - to let regular travelers on that road know it is going in. They can't just install a new light and turn it on. I was even in a neighborhood last week that had a new stop sign, and a little ways before the sign was a bright yellow sign that said "NEW" with a picture of a stop sign.

I think it is entirely possible that this child and his parents were aware that he wasn't allowed to bring a weapon to school, but that it never occurred to them that this fork-knife-spoon set that is given to children would be defined by anyone as a weapon. So instead of using common sense and taking it away and explaining to him and his parents why it wasn't allowed, they are possibly going to give him the same punishment as a middle schooler who brings a switchblade to school. Does that make ANY sense?

The lack of common sense and the willingness of the public school system employees to be good little robots and follow orders even when they make no sense is over the top.
 
  • #30
I don't think a 6 year old should know that EATING UTENSILS are considered weapons considering he uses them everyday at home.

A pencil can be used as a weapon, I noticed they didn't ban those......eyeroll....

It's outrageous and ridiculous and I am going to add this to the list I keep, of the hundreds of things wrong with public schools.

snipped....

The news reports make it look like an absurd case. What is failing to come to light is that, the camping "tool" is really a Victorinox (aka Swiss Army) type folding knife that happens to have a fork and spoon on it!

It wasn't just a fork or spoon. Its a folding knife. Clear and simple.

The stupid parents should be, once again, to blame for letting their child bring a knife to school.

YES IT WAS A KNIFE!!!
 
  • #31
My question was to illustrate that even if we are not aware of something, our actions have consequences. I was using an example that I felt an adult could relate to, since this is a situation that involves children, and it's been a long time since I have thought things through as a 7 year old. I hope that is more clear.

Again, let's just agree to disagree on this matter. There's really nothing more to be gained from further discussion.

I see your point and raise you: one REASON we have set laws and precidents is so that citizens can be aware of the laws so that they know whether or not their actions may be criminal or they may be liable to someone.

Ignorance is not an excuse - HOWVER - the "weapon" meaning is probably way, way to vague for a parent much less a child to understand what is and what is not expected. And that's why we get a jury trial if we screw up. This kid got neither fair advisement of the rule nor any way to plead his excuse. As an adult, we would not tolerate such treatment.

I'm not one for lawsuites left and right, but I'd sue over this for sure. Maybe if the "zero tolerance" is a major liability to the schools, they will overhaul it so that it is fair - each instance ruled on by taking all circumstances into account...because that's really the only fair thing to do here.
 
  • #32
I look forward to the day when the School Board and Administrators pay the same amount of attention to their own failures to follow policies and procedures as they have this young man.

How many teachers are silenced because of intimidation and harassment by School Administrators? The book "White Chalk Crime" is a must read


In my opinion, until our teachers and parents are able to speak out without fear of retaliation, the problems in our Public Schools cannot be addressed.
 
  • #33
I guess my idea of "reform" school must be really outdated. Never having been in reform school, I thought it was court-mandated, not an "alternative" school, governed by the school district itself (meaning, I thought you were told by a judge to go there, not the principal).

I guess I'll change my view slightly -- that he shouldn't be grouped in with children who are "at risk", but he broke the rules, and for that, and that alone, there should be a consequence for his actions.

I'm not saying he should punished to the same extent as, say, a child who brings a loaded gun to school with the intent to cause harm, but, again, rules are rules, and there needs to be some consequence for his actions. If my view offends anyone, I apologize for that.

I don't think there's a person who has weighed in on this thread who doesn't think this child should have some consequences. But the school blew it BIG time by doling out a consequence so steeped in ignorance that the only reasonable response is outrage. To add insult to injury, they hide their gormless laziness behind a meaningless concept such as "zero tolerance":rolleyes: The people behind this decision are lying to themselves and to others if they think they are protecting or helping any person at that school with this decision.

The elementary public charter school my children attend also have to abide by a "zero tolerance" :rolleyes:policy about stuff like this. Two years ago, my 1st grade son was fooling around with some boys in the lunchroom and said something like, "I'm gonna kill somebody." A boy next to him took it personally and smacked my son. Both my son and this boy were sent to the principal's office.

Per the school's written policy, my son (who is in the school on a charter, had always been on the honor roll and had never had a single behavior problem at the school) should have immediately had his charter revoked and been suspended from the school period end of story.

But, guess what? The folks at my son's school actually have brains between their ears coupled with years of hands-on experience with young boys. The principal talked to him for a good 30 minutes about why she had to take his behavior so seriously and why he could never repeat it. She went and talked to my son's teacher and got verbal reinforcement that he was a good, well-behaved child. She gave my son a 1-day in school suspension and then called me and let me know what was going on.

Today, my son is a 3rd grader at this same school - he's still on the honor roll, he's still well-behaved, he still loves school and he still respects his teacher and his principal. But how different things may have turned out for him if the adult leaders at his school had their heads filled with rubbish like the "leaders" in this Christina School district.
 
  • #34
This is an easy fix.

Zero Tolerance While Using Common Sense

Have this policey in place then if something like this happens again you pull in the "common sense" clause and deal with it that way.
 
  • #35
I see your point and raise you: one REASON we have set laws and precidents is so that citizens can be aware of the laws so that they know whether or not their actions may be criminal or they may be liable to someone.

Ignorance is not an excuse - HOWVER - the "weapon" meaning is probably way, way to vague for a parent much less a child to understand what is and what is not expected. And that's why we get a jury trial if we screw up. This kid got neither fair advisement of the rule nor any way to plead his excuse. As an adult, we would not tolerate such treatment.

I'm not one for lawsuites left and right, but I'd sue over this for sure. Maybe if the "zero tolerance" is a major liability to the schools, they will overhaul it so that it is fair - each instance ruled on by taking all circumstances into account...because that's really the only fair thing to do here.

I agree that the school's policy needs some serious overhauling.

I also agree that this was probably just a little boy, excited about his swiss army knife thing, and, like most little kids around the world, he wanted to show it off to his friends.

I also agree that he should not have been placed with the at-risk kids in 45-day alternate school.
 
  • #36
Boy suspended over utensil gets reprieve
First-grader faced reform school for carrying Cub Scout tool into school

Dressed in a button-down shirt and tie and speaking calmly and articulately, first-grader Zachary Christie hardly looks or acts like the sort of kid who should be spending 45 days in reform school. But, thanks to a zero-tolerance policy, that’s where Zachary’s Delaware school system wanted him to go after he made the mistake of taking his favorite camping utensil to school.

However, on Tuesday night the school board made a hasty change to its code of conduct. The seven-member board voted unanimously to reduce the punishment for kindergartners and first-graders who bring weapons to school or commit other violent offenses to a suspension ranging from three to five days.

(snipped)

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33289924/ns/today-today_people/?GT1=43001
 
  • #37
I bet they made a hasty change. Glad to hear it.
 
  • #38
Do we know for a fact that this child is going to receive 45 days in reform school? If it does indeed happen (which I doubt) I will sincerely apologize, and agree with you all that it was "too much."

Hey -- guess what???? The chilid got a reprieve! No reform school, as predicted yesterday by one savvy poster....

Oh wait...

That was ME!!! :dance:
 
  • #39
Hey -- guess what???? The chilid got a reprieve! No reform school, as predicted yesterday by one savvy poster....

Oh wait...

That was ME!!! :dance:

You were right and you are a savvy poster.

But...I wonder what made them change their minds??? :waitasec:

:innocent::innocent::innocent:
 
  • #40
You were right and you are a savvy poster.

But...I wonder what made them change their minds??? :waitasec:

:innocent::innocent::innocent:

You think they read here?
 

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