8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[Nova]

does anyone else think it's possible that many people knew or suspected she was drinking (and smoking pot) & chose to ignore the peril to the children's (& others) lives and now are all scrambling to avoid being held liable, in addition to feeling incredible guilt?

I think that even if she was a closet drinker, people around her would know ...

I wonder if we'll ever hear from any of her co-workers 'cause they would also have known or suspected IMO

Haven't we already heard from friends of Diane's that she often stopped for several cocktails after work? I thought she had a drinking buddy or two at her favorite bar...

ETA Ah, yes, as so often happens twinkiesmom has beaten me to it.

 

[RSorensen]

There's this one:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/region...L;jsessionid=6147319176B8975F2FF9F6BEC3A6B2CE

There was a comment made earlier questioning why, if Diane was such a drinker, that her friends or drinking partners wouldn't say something. The above article was presented as evidence that they did. In fact, I don't think there is any real evidence that they did. Take a look at the date of this "article" in the NY Post (that should tell you something right there!) written shortly after the tragedy. This was a widely questioned (and I believe debunked) "report" that other media outlets did not pick it up for that reason. It was pretty much considered to be someone who wanted 15 minutes of fame and who probably did not know Mrs. Schuler. I remember some of the back and forth on this. If this was truly someone who "bellied up to the bar" with Diane Schuler, no one else seems to have confirmed it or was aware of it. One would think that if this were true, more than this lone person would have confirmed it...maybe others who frequented the bar or the bartender or other friends. I am more than willing to look at other pieces of evidence that Diane, who did all of the housework, took care of the kids, did all the cooking, volunteered at her kid's school and any number of other things, routinely stopped off at a bar on her way home. It exhausts me just thinking about it. As always, I am ready and willing to examine other evidence that friends of Diane confirmed that she was a regular drinker, but this particular piece of "evidence" is not enough.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

There was a comment made earlier questioning why, if Diane was such a drinker, that her friends or drinking partners wouldn't say something. The above article was presented as evidence that they did. In fact, I don't think there is any real evidence that they did. Take a look at the date of this "article" in the NY Post (that should tell you something right there!) written shortly after the tragedy. This was a widely questioned (and I believe debunked) "report" that other media outlets did not pick it up for that reason. It was pretty much considered to be someone who wanted 15 minutes of fame and who probably did not know Mrs. Schuler. I remember some of the back and forth on this. If this was truly someone who "bellied up to the bar" with Diane Schuler, no one else seems to have confirmed it or was aware of it. One would think that if this were true, more than this lone person would have confirmed it...maybe others who frequented the bar or the bartender or other friends. I am more than willing to look at other pieces of evidence that Diane, who did all of the housework, took care of the kids, did all the cooking, volunteered at her kid's school and any number of other things, routinely stopped off at a bar on her way home. It exhausts me just thinking about it. As always, I am ready and willing to examine other evidence that friends of Diane confirmed that she was a regular drinker, but this particular piece of "evidence" is not enough.

Thank you, RSorensen, for your post. I read this article earlier and to say it was written professionally is beyond an understatement. NY post is a city gossip National Enquirer imvho. Blech....

If there was any real evidence of this woman having a drinking issue, it would be out there by now and not regarding fodder gossip *after the accident*. I still believe bad choices and she ran with it that day. Not habitual. Honestly, I have literally been there when drinking concern phone calls have been made (ugh). Talk is cheap. Gossip even more so. Prove it. I do not think it can be done in true fairness even to Diane or any of the innocent victims.

imvho

 

[Nova]

Thank you, RSorensen, for your post. I read this article earlier and to say it was written professionally is beyond an understatement. NY post is a city gossip National Enquirer imvho. Blech....

If there was any real evidence of this woman having a drinking issue, it would be out there by now and not regarding fodder gossip *after the accident*. I still believe bad choices and she ran with it that day. Not habitual. Honestly, I have literally been there when drinking concern phone calls have been made (ugh). Talk is cheap. Gossip even more so. Prove it. I do not think it can be done in true fairness even to Diane or any of the innocent victims.

imvho

I'm sorry, but anyone who has 10 shots of vodka in her blood (and a few more in her stomach) on a Sunday morning has a "drinking issue." I haven't had that much hard alcohol in my system since one stupid, drunken night in high school--and I don't pretend to be a teetotaler.

Your point that reports of Diane hanging out nightly in bars may be unreliable is well made. But on the day of the accident, at least, she certainly had some sort of "drinking issue."

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I'm sorry, but anyone who has 10 shots of vodka in her blood (and a few more in her stomach) on a Sunday morning has a "drinking issue." I haven't had that much hard alcohol in my system since one stupid, drunken night in high school--and I don't pretend to be a teetotaler.

Your point that reports of Diane hanging out nightly in bars may be unreliable is well made. But on the day of the accident, at least, she certainly had some sort of "drinking issue."

I will never argue the fact of what she had in her system that day. Never. I am a social drinker (wine) and when I have vodka (which I do enjoy at times), I can tell you there is no way I can drive nor would I. Hard liquor affects me quickly (only takes two, to be honest) and that is when diluted, with food, and not downed in a drinking rush.

There is just something that nags at me about this particular tragic case. I truly wish I could put my finger on why, but I can't....

 

[twinkiesmom]

If this was truly someone who "bellied up to the bar" with Diane Schuler, no one else seems to have confirmed it or was aware of it. One would think that if this were true, more than this lone person would have confirmed it...maybe others who frequented the bar or the bartender or other friends.

Middle-aged soccer mom alcoholics don't typically have entourages.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Middle-aged soccer mom alcoholics don't typically have entourages.

Way harsh post.

imvvho.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I'm sorry, but anyone who has 10 shots of vodka in her blood (and a few more in her stomach) on a Sunday morning has a "drinking issue." I haven't had that much hard alcohol in my system since one stupid, drunken night in high school--and I don't pretend to be a teetotaler.

Your point that reports of Diane hanging out nightly in bars may be unreliable is well made. But on the day of the accident, at least, she certainly had some sort of "drinking issue."

Agreed...Moreover, the 2 large OJs were purchased in advance of her intoxication. This was anything but an accident.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Way harsh post.

imvvho.

This is a harsh case.

This was a 36-year-old mother, not a college student on her first bender. Middle managers with drinking problems don't travel in packs. You might not even find one drinking buddy....You might find that the person doesn't drink in public at all.

 

[RSorensen]

Agreed...Moreover, the 2 large OJs were purchased in advance of her intoxication. This was anything but an accident.

I think we would have a much better, adult conversation if people would take some time to really read the posts. Unless I have missed something, not one individual has suggested that this tragedy was simply an accident. Also, previous comments that definitively declared Diane Schuler an alcoholic might make the person posting it feel good, but those accusations are not based on fact or evidence, but rather anger which really doesn't help advance an intellectual conversation. If I wanted to listen to people who simply want to spew anger, I could just turn on Sean Hannity.

Also, NO ONE, not even Diane's husband (except perhaps in his first rambling press conference), claimed she was a teetotaler.

Finally, I think we have a problem with definitions here. The traditional definition of a "teetotaler" is someone who doesn't drink at all. The traditional definition of a person with a "drinking problem" is someone who either is an alcoholic or who often drinks to excess and can't seem to control it. The traditional definition of "someone who drinks alcohol" is a person like me and many of you. We have a drink or two from time to time, we rarely drink to excess, and we don't get behind the wheel when we drink. Most of us are neither an alcoholic or a teetotaler, or a person with a "drinking problem" for that matter. It is ridiculous and doesn't advance the conversation to declare anyone an "alcoholic" or a person with a "drinking problem" without any real evidence and based solely on one tragic event, no matter how angry we are with the person responsible. Am I saying she was not an alcoholic or a person with a drinking problem. No. I'm just saying there isn't any real evidence of either.

 

[noZme]

I read here everyday. It's like screeching fingernails on a chalk-board, yet I keep coming back.... Is it just me, or do others feel the same?

 

[nosysw]

I read here everyday. It's like screeching fingernails on a chalk-board, yet I keep coming back.... Is it just me, or do others feel the same?

:seeya:

 

[OrdinaryLife]

This is a harsh case.

This was a 36-year-old mother, not a college student on her first bender. Middle managers with drinking problems don't travel in packs. You might not even find one drinking buddy....You might find that the person doesn't drink in public at all.

This is true in some cases, but all we know, right now, is nothing but pure speculation.

If she was a closet alcoholic, it would definitely would have been noticed regardless. Her family, children, working peers, and her job would have been affected. Slowly, but consistantly. That has not been shown on any level.

Example: My father is an alcoholic. Before my mother died, they were known to enjoy their Manhattan's, etc. My father's drinking got worse during the time my mother got ill and worse after she died. We saw it, we approached him, and as with many with a habit, he blew us off. It wasn't until I started to receive phone calls from friends *AND* his secretary and boss that we did an intervention. My point is, my father showed, all by himself, professionally, personally, and psychologically pure proof of his addiction. He could not hide it.

There is nothing that has shown Diane was habitual. To use the arguement that she went out after work is not enough as many do so. Right or wrong, many do it.

Last I'm going to post on the case. Nothing worse than beating a dead horse when trying for simple fair discussion.

imvho

 

[arielilane]

I read here everyday. It's like screeching fingernails on a chalk-board, yet I keep coming back.... Is it just me, or do others feel the same?

Me too.

:seeya:

 

[RSorensen]

This is true in some cases, but all we know, right now, is nothing but pure speculation.

If she was a closet alcoholic, it would definitely would have been noticed regardless. Her family, children, working peers, and her job would have been affected. Slowly, but consistantly. That has not been shown on any level.

Example: My father is an alcoholic. Before my mother died, they were known to enjoy their Manhattan's, etc. My father's drinking got worse during the time my mother got ill and worse after she died. We saw it, we approached him, and as with many with a habit, he blew us off. It wasn't until I started to receive phone calls from friends *AND* his secretary and boss that we did an intervention. My point is, my father showed, all by himself, professionally, personally, and psychologically pure proof of his addiction. He could not hide it.

There is nothing that has shown Diane was habitual. To use the argument that she went out after work is not enough as many do so. Right or wrong, many do it.


imvho

How lovely - and generous - that you were willing to share this personal experience with the group. In addition to adding to the discussion it gives us much to think about. I have a brother with a severe drinking problem and we tried an intervention which "took" only for a while. I can imagine that there are many people - perhaps even Diane's family if she did in fact have a severe problem - that opt not to put themselves through the agony of intervening when it might not work or they might rupture family ties. If Diane did in fact have a problem or if she was trying to hide her drinking and the family avoided intervening, can you imagine how terrible they might feel at this point.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

How lovely - and generous - that you were willing to share this personal experience with the group. In addition to adding to the discussion it gives us much to think about. I have a brother with a severe drinking problem and we tried an intervention which "took" only for a while. I can imagine that there are many people - perhaps even Diane's family if she did in fact have a severe problem - that opt not to put themselves through the agony of intervening when it might not work or they might rupture family ties. If Diane did in fact have a problem or if she was trying to hide her drinking and the family avoided intervening, can you imagine how terrible they might feel at this point.

I'm not so amazing. I have both maternal/paternal sides of alcoholism in my life. I know what people do or don't do. I am very much aware of denial from both camps. One of the drinker and one from the enablers. Keeps me on my toes regarding my own genes of drinking. That said and for the sake of discussion....

Diane may have been on a road of self destruction (accident not included), but nowhere is there factual and honest proof that she was an alcoholic. It is very possible she over indulged the night before, ~something~ in cell phone call put her over the edge (I really think she "had enough"), and she self medicated.

I do not nor will not excuse her regarding the deaths of innocents, however, I truly believe there was something "cooking" within her and she lost it. At the expense of innocent people.

Okay, now I'm finished.

 

[RSorensen]

Diane may have been on a road of self destruction (accident not included), but nowhere is there factual and honest proof that she was an alcoholic. It is very possible she over indulged the night before, ~something~ in cell phone call put her over the edge (I really think she "had enough"), and she self medicated.

I do not nor will not excuse her regarding the deaths of innocents, however, I truly believe there was something "cooking" within her and she lost it. At the expense of innocent people.

Okay, now I'm finished.

I agree that this is a likely explanation. Pain that we don't know how to deal with can cause us to do things we ordinarily wouldn't do.

 

[Nova]

I think we would have a much better, adult conversation if people would take some time to really read the posts. Unless I have missed something, not one individual has suggested that this tragedy was simply an accident. Also, previous comments that definitively declared Diane Schuler an alcoholic might make the person posting it feel good, but those accusations are not based on fact or evidence, but rather anger which really doesn't help advance an intellectual conversation. If I wanted to listen to people who simply want to spew anger, I could just turn on Sean Hannity.

Also, NO ONE, not even Diane's husband (except perhaps in his first rambling press conference), claimed she was a teetotaler.

Finally, I think we have a problem with definitions here. The traditional definition of a "teetotaler" is someone who doesn't drink at all. The traditional definition of a person with a "drinking problem" is someone who either is an alcoholic or who often drinks to excess and can't seem to control it. The traditional definition of "someone who drinks alcohol" is a person like me and many of you. We have a drink or two from time to time, we rarely drink to excess, and we don't get behind the wheel when we drink. Most of us are neither an alcoholic or a teetotaler, or a person with a "drinking problem" for that matter. It is ridiculous and doesn't advance the conversation to declare anyone an "alcoholic" or a person with a "drinking problem" without any real evidence and based solely on one tragic event, no matter how angry we are with the person responsible. Am I saying she was not an alcoholic or a person with a drinking problem. No. I'm just saying there isn't any real evidence of either.

RS, I am open to other explanations, but what are they? 10 (probably 12 or 13) shots of vodka on a Sunday late night/morning when you know you have to drive a van full of children more than 100 miles? Plus a joint?

I've had an abscessed tooth that had to be extracted. I've broken bones without realizing it and lived with the pain for several days. It never crossed my mind to down such a large amount of vodka, much less to drink and get behind the wheel of a car.

I don't understand how Diane Schuler consumed that much alcohol and pot UNLESS she had an ongoing drinking issue of some kind.

 

[rpd113]

There is no medical proof that someone must be an experienced drinker in order to function at a particular level under the influence of alcohol. But, when you think about it, she really didn't function all that well anyway, did she?

Ingesting ten (plus) shots of vodka as well as marijuana and then driving "pin straight" for two miles is pretty high-level functioning, to me. Especially for a purportedly light drinker.

Going the wrong way on a highway may appear to be low-level functioning, but that's assuming it was accidental.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I was finally able to watch the HBO documentary, "There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane" last night (actually watched it twice) and it left me wondering why did the Hance's call Brad Katinas (their friend) for help to find Diane and not 911 themselves? Does anyone happen to know what police station Warren Hance went to? I recall reading the police report and it stated that when law enforcement went to the Hance's home to speak with Jackie there was an offduty police officer there with her and he told them that Jackie didn't want to talk. I must say that that struck me as being odd - not that Jackie Hance didn't want to talk so much as the offduty police officer there with her and speaking on her behalf. Does anyone know if the offduty cop was a friend of the family? While watching the documentary, specifically the part where Jay and Daniel are leaving Spitzer's office, and Jay lights up a cigarette outside and says something to the effect, "no one in the family knows I smoke" caused me to catch my breathe - I could just hear Diane saying the same thing..."no one in my family knows how much I drink and smoke pot" ... very haunting IMO.

ETA: Disregard my question ^ about why the Hance's calling their friend (BK) before calling 911 - after listening to a longer version of the 911 call made by BK, he mentions that Jackie had called the state police.... so it appears that Warren went out searching while Jackie and BK were making phone calls.