8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

[PrayersForMaura]

I was talking to a friend about this case ... he knows nothing about it, except the brief synopsis I gave him.
I just wanted to get someone's feedback who was not as close to this story as I seem to be getting.

I asked him what he thought.

He raised the following questions, which may or may not matter but got me curious:

1) Did someone spike her drink, her coffee, any way that she was consuming more alcohol than she has intended or thought about?

2) Was she afraid of someone, running from someone?

3) Was she in an abusive relationship?

4) Any extramarital affairs involved with either Diane or her husband?

5) Was she manic depressive or did she have some sort of mental illness?

6) Was she so drunk that she blacked out, completely unaware of where she was and how she got where she did?

7) Was the pot for certain "smoked" or was it ingested through food, etc?

8) At what time did she begin drinking that day and was any of the alcohol in her system leftover from a late night drinking binge?

9) Did she often drink on the way home from this trip? Did her husband and her often take separate vehicles for these weekend trips?

 

[eleven]

I agree....My husbands boss grows his own, and had a secret room built in his house while it was being built 2 years ago so he could grow it there and he has lights and fans to air it out w/o it going through out his house. Most likely they grew it or knew someone who did.

This may or may not have already been said, but there are many medications that will cause a false positive. I do know that ibuprofen (Advil) can show up as THC in a drug test.

 

[grace60]

Here is a video of one of the first people to try to help. Just sad.
http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=videonetwork&videoID=1209896132

 

[SuziQ]

You know the family could at least redo the tox tests before commiting to an expensive second autopsy.

 

[tapu]

SSRIs can help with serotonin issues just as insulin helps with pancreatic issues. Depression is an organic disorder that can be successfully treated for some people with medication.

No, no, no, no, and no. Depression is not in any way, shape, or form to be compared with diabetes. I heard that lie too.

You can test a diabetic for insulin levels. Can you do that for serotonin levels with a depressed person? NO.

Every diabetic shows the same symptoms--excessive thirst, urination, weight loss. Does every depressive show the same symptoms? NO.

Can you do a blood test for insulin levels? Yes. Can you a blood test for serotonin levels? NO.

Do diabetics consistently respond exactly the same way to administration of insulin? YES. Do depressives respond exactly the same way to administration of SSRIs? NO.

Diabetes is a recognized, measurable failure of one body's organ to produce enough insulin to metabolize sugar. Every diabetic has the same symptoms, and every one responds the same when their insulin levels are restored.

Depressives have a wide variety of symptoms, from mania to insomnia to hypersomnia, anorexia or overeating, sex or no sex, acting out or being passive. There is no blood test for depression.

The only "chemical imbalance" in your brain is the one you have now, created by administration of serotonin reuptake inhibitors. It's a shame and a pity that your doctor is willing to feed you such lies, or to be so ignorant or careless in her knowledge of these drugs. Drug companies are very influential, as is group think and drug-company sponsored "symposiums on depression."

Again, I'm willing to bet you $100 that there is no proof--or even the argument anywhere in REAL peer-reviewed medical research--that depression is caused by a possibly inherited imbalance of serotonin-related brain chemistry.

Dude, with all due respect, give it a rest. You have had your opinion responded to with reason and grace. I really don't think you're going to get a taker on such a "bet," either, though you might try a thread with that offer....

Sorry, but you are kind of going beyond your OHO.... (And that's my oho.)

 

[VCDaedalus]

"If I find my mind racing and I'm having suicidial thoughts I will go right back on it and probably take it forever."

YOUR DRUG MAY BE YOUR PROBLEM. There's even a book by that name.

Your symptoms could very likely be those of "discontinuation syndrome," which is a euphemism for WITHDRAWAL. They don't want to admit these drugs create an addiction that causes increasingly severe physical symptoms when the drug is withdrawn. They don't want to call it withdrawal because they've said for years (especially when they were new) that the drugs had NO addiction potential.

They said that about heroin, and they even said it in Time Magazine in the 80s about cocaine.

I had to withdraw cold turkey from Wellbutrin because I was not informed that you cannot stop these drugs immediately. It was pretty hellish. I was in a foreign country and, of course, I did not know that stopping this SSRI would be painful and distressing. I did plan to kill myself. I got over it. That was ten years ago.

 

[tezi]

I watched the Today Show interview with the sisters of the other family. All Mr. Schuler and his lawyer are doing is making things worse for the others, IMO.

Mr. Schuler nor his lawyer can explain why Mrs. Schuler had undigested vodka in her stomach, nor can they explain why her BAC was .19, without saying there is some vast conspiracy in the ME's office and with the State Police. It looks like to me that they are taking a page out of Muhammed al Fayed's playbook. Instead of just saying that she made a mistake and they are sorry for everyone's loss, they are attempting to shift the blame. I wonder how the family of the their three nieces feels to see this all going on?

Obviously, no one forced her to drink that much and apparently she had a problem with alcohol, even if no one else knew about it. It is a very sad situation.

My mother was an alcoholic who killed two people in a drunk driving accident. At that time, I was estranged from my mother because I would not allow my children to see how I grew up, hiding the "big family secret." However, even if I had not been estranged from my mother, I would not have made any excuses for her behavior. I felt terrible (and still do feel terrible)for the families of the people she murdered. And it wasn't as if I didn't try to get her to accept help in the past. I tried numerous times to get her into rehab, only to have her leave the center as soon as I did. My mother passed away over seven years ago due to complications from her chronic alcoholism, at no time did she ever express any sort of remorse for what happened in the past. I understand that was a part of her disease. I'm happy to say I don't drink, I had seen enough to guarentee I would never drink!

Mr. Schuler needs to understand what he is putting the other families through by his statements. I understand he is denial. But, he needs to just step back from the spotlight and let the chips fall where they may. By all means, if it makes him feel better to have a second autopsy done, he should do it and pay for it. But, I am pretty sure the results will be the same.

JMO, IMHO, and all other disclaimers.

 

[VCDaedalus]

tapu, why are you trying to shut this down? Catmama posted misinformation. I corrected her. If you don't like it, don't read it.

What's an OHO, and why does that give you the authority to decide the discussion has gone on too long and should be terminated?

I think my theory that Diane might have been on SSRIs and mixed them with alcohol and pot at least provides some explanation for her behavior that fits the facts of the crash as we know them, and corresponds to other incidents involving SSRIs and suicidal, bizarre, and violent behavior.

Some people don't like the facts about SSRIs to be published or talked about. I wonder why that is, because I'm not putting anything on this board that isn't true and can't be verified. As far as anecdotal evidence goes, that can conceivably be attributed to the placebo effect and medication acognosomia.

 

[Native New Yorker]

My question as to seat belts a while back has been lost in the shuffle....I have read conflicting reports as to the children being thrown from the vehicle....

As for SSRIs, I am not a fan....I think they are an easy out for our society, rather than taking the hard road to help people cope, it is easier to medicate...true also for millions of little boys who are put on ADD meds for.....being little boys... IMO

HOWEVER...with this family, this lawyer, I am pretty sure that they would have mentioned it, if Diane had been taking them....because that is way more socially acceptable than boozing and toking........

IMO

Seat belt ideas anyone???

 

[southcitymom]

There but for the grace of God go I. I remember driving home from a bar many years ago so drunk that I don't have a clue how I got there. I never was much of a drinker but every once in a while I would get a wild hair and really hang one on. Just out of a marriage...because he was a drunk!!!...and was having a great time...I thought! I didn't have kids in the car...it was just me but what if I had gone head on into a car that had kids in it. What if I had killed everyone in the other car.

I was a social drinker...not an alcoholic...but I did drink and drive and I could have caused a bad wreck leaving people dead. Maybe it was the same for Diane S. Everyone is so sure she was an alcoholic but she might not have been. She may have drank more then she planned to that day and got drunk without even realizing the shape she was in. I think that is a possibility. People that saw her along the way said she wasn't acting drunk...when she got food for the kids. Maybe she didn't eat and the alcohol hit her harder then it would have if she had eaten something. She knew something was wrong because she called her brother and told him she wasn't feeling well.

I only wish she had stayed where she was and waited for her brother to come and get them.

Great post, Bobbiesangel. I am, as a general rule, loathe to identify someone else an addict (and for me an alcoholic is simply an addict whose drug of choice is alcohol) because I think it is a very personal identification that doesn't have to do with the amount of a substance or even the frequency of use of a substance, but rather with the spiritual, emotional, mental and psychological unmanageability that the substance causes the user.

However, normal users don't drink and use on a Sunday morning while driving a carload of kids back from an outing. They just don't. Anyone that makes such a choice is making the choice of an addict, not the choice of an "Earth person," as we sometimes affectionately call those of you who can live a good life and use in moderation! MOO - but I think the circumstances surrounding her use at this level are hugely important in the general assumption that this woman had a problem.

Had this women been found with this BAC and weed in her system after a night on the town with her girls or a festive Christmas party with friends, I would agree that we wouldn't have anywhere near enough information to assume she had a substance abuse problem.

That said, I do believe that the level of alcohol/weed hit her in a way she wasn't expecting and that wasn't common for her. That's happened to me before.

I am convinced that a key reason she didn't wait for her brother is the fact that she was sick enough to not be able to hide her true impaired condition from him once he arrived....and that's a level of terror that can only fully be appreciated by those who have hidden an addiction from their loved ones. Of course, she may also have not stayed put because she was loaded and not thinking clearly, but I do believe the odd, hidden route she took before winding up going the wrong way on the Parkway was her wanting to not get caught.

 

[southcitymom]

It has been mentioned before, but I would love to know why none of the kids were belted in, or the little ones in car seats? All except Diane were thrown from the car.....I would have to guess this was standard for her, or the older ones would have objected, buckled in anyway....a very sad aspect to this case.....

NNY - do we know they were not belted in? Some wrecks are so violent that bodies can be thrown from the vehicle even with seatbelts in use. Has anyone who investigated the accident scene stated that none of the kids were belted? I just dont think we can assume that.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm not sure what anti-depressants have to do with this thread. The autopsy didn't mention them, the family didn't mention them, the attorney didn't mention them.

The equivalent of 10 oz of liquor in her blood stream, plus undigested liquor in her stomach, plus eyeballs filled with liquor, plus some amount of pot = erratic driving and terrible accident.

And, just a heads up, there are blood tests to test a person's serotonin level. http://pennhealth.com/encyclopedia/em_DisplayArticle.aspx?gcid=003562&ptid=1

Antidepressants were brought up on a theory VCDaedalus is putting forth and investigating. They have not been mentioned in any way shape or form from anyone connected with this case. While I am not in agreement with VCD's theory that SSRIs played any role in this incident, I understand that a case like this that raises so many questions, people often look for unstated or under the radar factors.

I actually think that VCD's beliefs concerning SSRIs would make a fascinating and informative thread of its own - perhaps in the Parking Lot or the Unmoderated Forum (I think that place is still around, right?)

 

[southcitymom]

I would have to agree that the level of alcohol was really high and i can easily see how it caused the crash. (if the report is correct, and i doubt they would make a mistake of this magnitude) Many eons ago during my college party days i was busted for a dui and blew a 0.20. I dont even remember it, i was pretty much in a blackout. Very lucky i didnt kill anyone. It was a life changing event.

Welcome to Websleuths, TCJ - I hope we hear more from you!

 

[southcitymom]

Here is a video of one of the first people to try to help. Just sad.
http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=videonetwork&videoID=1209896132

Wow. I am so glad so many loving people surrounded and did their best to comfort these children at the scene. Heart-wrenching.

 

[GoodAim]

Just a guess, as others have alluded to above, that her behavior seems like behavior after a big fight, or a long-simmering problem coming to a boil, with her maybe even leaving the campsite early with a change in plans or a change in the timing of returning the cousins. Could account for a phone call. An I-don't-care-about-anything kind of rage. There must have been quite a frank discussion about something at the campsite. And stopping at a McDonalds is the perfect way to get a large soda, pour half out and fill it the cup with vodka. It's possible to do that without anyone observing, even the kids... It appears that somewhere not far from the accident, maybe at the rest stop, maybe where the phone was, there was an opportunity to also smoke a joint. She had been doing both not long before 1:35PM per the autopsy. She had to be out-of-control furious, reckless, and behaving suicidally even if it wasn't planned. If the witnesses were right, and it was her vehicle that was tailgating, blinking her lights to pass, trying to pass on the shoulder, etc. (not on the Taconic) then that sounds like the way a person drives when they are enraged. Enough repetition in this post! All I needed to say was "UNTHINKING RAGE".

 

[southcitymom]

My question as to seat belts a while back has been lost in the shuffle....I have read conflicting reports as to the children being thrown from the vehicle....

As for SSRIs, I am not a fan....I think they are an easy out for our society, rather than taking the hard road to help people cope, it is easier to medicate...true also for millions of little boys who are put on ADD meds for.....being little boys... IMO

HOWEVER...with this family, this lawyer, I am pretty sure that they would have mentioned it, if Diane had been taking them....because that is way more socially acceptable than boozing and toking........

IMO

Seat belt ideas anyone???

I had not gotten to this post when I asked about the seatbelts, NNY. At this stage in the game, for me, there's not enough information to say these children weren't bucked in.

 

[tapu]

tapu, why are you trying to shut this down? Catmama posted misinformation. I corrected her. If you don't like it, don't read it.

What's an OHO, and why does that give you the authority to decide the discussion has gone on too long and should be terminated?

I think my theory that Diane might have been on SSRIs and mixed them with alcohol and pot at least provides some explanation for her behavior that fits the facts of the crash as we know them, and corresponds to other incidents involving SSRIs and suicidal, bizarre, and violent behavior.

Some people don't like the facts about SSRIs to be published or talked about. I wonder why that is, because I'm not putting anything on this board that isn't true and can't be verified. As far as anecdotal evidence goes, that can conceivably be attributed to the placebo effect and medication acognosomia.

Yeah, you're right. You seem fine without psych meds.

 

[southcitymom]

Just a guess, as others have alluded to above, that her behavior seems like behavior after a big fight, or a long-simmering problem coming to a boil, with her maybe even leaving the campsite early with a change in plans or a change in the timing of returning the cousins. Could account for a phone call. An I-don't-care-about-anything kind of rage. There must have been quite a frank discussion about something at the campsite. And stopping at a McDonalds is the perfect way to get a large soda, pour half out and fill it the cup with vodka. It's possible to do that without anyone observing, even the kids... It appears that somewhere not far from the accident, maybe at the rest stop, maybe where the phone was, there was an opportunity to also smoke a joint. She had been doing both not long before 1:35PM per the autopsy. She had to be out-of-control furious, reckless, and behaving suicidally even if it wasn't planned. If the witnesses were right, and it was her vehicle that was tailgating, blinking her lights to pass, trying to pass on the shoulder, etc. (not on the Taconic) then that sounds like the way a person drives when they are enraged. Enough repetition in this post! All I needed to say was "UNTHINKING RAGE".

I think quite a few people agree with the "uncontrollable rage" theory, but I don't think we'll ever know. I don't think the husband is lying when he says he and his wife parted ways at the campsite that morning with routine kisses and "drive safelys" and "see you soons." We want to attribute a motive that makes sense, but drunk people don't always make sense and sometimes they drive like idiots and, for all we know, this woman was in a full-blown blackout.

As I said earlier in this thread, I had a lengthy hidden relapse after the birth of my second child. During that period of my life, I used daily and parented my young children, to include driving everywhere with them, after I had taken amounts of drugs that would kill someone without a tolerance for them.

I didn't use just when I felt negative emotions. I used because I woke up to another day.

Using was how I handled the normal stresses of my life. And I had a terrific life if you looked at it from the outside - two mentally and physically healthy children; financial security; an incredible, loving, involved husband who treated me like gold; daily nanny help; a wonderful circle of clean and sober mommy friends; and my own successful business.

Today, I still have those things, along with freedom from active addiction - which is the most important thing in my life and which I guard fervently. With a slight roll of the dice, Diane and I might have met at a 12-step meeting. We would have surely been friends. It is only that pair of di that separates us. She didn't know what I didn't know for much of my life - that an addict can stop using, lose the desire to use and find a new way to live. I am crushed at the cost of her addiction.

 

[Native New Yorker]

Just a guess, as others have alluded to above, that her behavior seems like behavior after a big fight, or a long-simmering problem coming to a boil, with her maybe even leaving the campsite early with a change in plans or a change in the timing of returning the cousins. Could account for a phone call. An I-don't-care-about-anything kind of rage. There must have been quite a frank discussion about something at the campsite. And stopping at a McDonalds is the perfect way to get a large soda, pour half out and fill it the cup with vodka. It's possible to do that without anyone observing, even the kids... It appears that somewhere not far from the accident, maybe at the rest stop, maybe where the phone was, there was an opportunity to also smoke a joint. She had been doing both not long before 1:35PM per the autopsy. She had to be out-of-control furious, reckless, and behaving suicidally even if it wasn't planned. If the witnesses were right, and it was her vehicle that was tailgating, blinking her lights to pass, trying to pass on the shoulder, etc. (not on the Taconic) then that sounds like the way a person drives when they are enraged. Enough repetition in this post! All I needed to say was "UNTHINKING RAGE".

I think that Diane was very, very angry about something, and did NOT spend nine minutes on the phone with her brother just chatting about the weather, or even about how ill she felt...
she was filled with Unthinking rage, as Good Aim said....the question is why?
She may have even been angry enough to fail to belt everyone in....have read two conflicting reports on the kids being restrained. At this point, nothing would surprise me!

 

[MomofBoys]

As for SSRIs, I am not a fan....I think they are an easy out for our society, rather than taking the hard road to help people cope, it is easier to medicate...true also for millions of little boys who are put on ADD meds for.....being little boys... IMO

I agree that little boys are way over-medicated. I have it in my own extended family. I see a relative medicate her son and talk about their struggles with ADD as she goes to the fridge and gets him a glass of Mountain Dew. I'm not granola enough to say that I think there are natural remedies for absolutely everything, but some people lack insight into how diet plays into hyperactivity and racing thoughts. People do use drugs like Ritalin to help parent their children at times, though, and it's a terrible things. Often, though, the decision is aided by a doctor and you have to have the insight to know whether the doctor is seeing a true disorder or just going off your description of your child's behavior.

HOWEVER, I do disagree with your blanket take on SSRIs. I have struggled with OCD all my life. I've had therapy and it was pretty much ineffective. If not for Lexapro taking an edge off the resulting anxiety, I might not even be here today. Those who have never suffered from a true, debilitating mental disorder can't really say what works and what doesn't. I think we are over-medicated as a society, but SSRIs can and often do save lives. I do think doctors go overboard sometimes and prescribe too many drugs that conflict with each other. I also think, as someone who has been on mental health boards, that some people wear their disorders like a badge of honor. It's like a list of accomplishments. "Oh, I have this and this and then I was diagnosed with this before the doctor said 'you know, it might be this' and I'm on Lexapro and Paxil and Buspar and Xanax and some Vicodin for the headaches I get and then I need two Ambiens to get to sleep and I have to bring myself up with a five-hour energy shot..." All is a list format in their signatures. I do think that sometimes people make their true mental illnesses a mental illness onto its own.

I wish doctors weren't so in the pocket of pharmaceutical companies, but they do a lot of good work and SSRIs can be very effective where there is a true need. Some people need them. You can't talk your way out of everything, and I wish mental illness was treated as seriously as a physical illness. Because in many ways, it's much, much worse. I remember laying in bed one night just wishing I could break a bone to take my mind off my pain.

In terms of this case, I honestly think the vodka was liquid courage. The large amount, undigested, would seem to indicate she bolted it really fast. Why? I know we can't know if she had an existing problem, but large amounts of alcohol, in the morning, doesn't speak to the profile of a social drinker, and it doesn't really speak to an alcoholic profile either, does it? Large quantities in a very short amount of time, complete and almost immediate loss of function, etc. If this wasn't a murder-suicide, what was she told/what did she see to make her drink that much vodka that quickly?