A Closer Look at John Fernie

[Squishified]

You would think the note would be COVERED in fingerprints. Wouldn't that be the first thing everyone at the "party" would want to see??? It should be covered in a bunch of sweaty fingerprints. The note is the only "clue" they had of what happened to JB.

 

[Littledeer]

JMO8778 says:

it was found w. no fingerprints on it

So, 3 pages of notes just fly through space from the spiral staircase to the front of the patio door???

Or or you saying, all fingerprints found on it, belonged to PR, JR, and any police that touched it with their fingers?????????

 

[Nuisanceposter]

JMO8778 says:

it was found w. no fingerprints on it

So, 3 pages of notes just fly through space from the spiral staircase to the front of the patio door???

Or or you saying, all fingerprints found on it, belonged to PR, JR, and any police that touched it with their fingers?????????

The official IDI excuse - John had just showered, and Patsy had just washed up and put on make-up...so there wasn't enough oil on their fingertips to leave prints, since it had just been washed away and their fingers hadn't had time to re-oil up again.

:banghead:


No prints at all on the RN, and the only prints on the pad of paper (7 total) were 2 from 2 different CBI employees, and 5 from Patsy.

 

[JMO8778]

You would think the note would be COVERED in fingerprints. Wouldn't that be the first thing everyone at the "party" would want to see??? It should be covered in a bunch of sweaty fingerprints. The note is the only "clue" they had of what happened to JB.

they were given copies of it to look at.one of the odd things pointed out was Patsy commenting on the ppr it was on,even though waht she had was a copy,and not like the notepad ppr at all.and she seemed to change her mind a lot that morning..first saying it looked like the housekeeper's handwriting,then saying it didn't,etc.(I don't recall reading even once that Patsy had asked or told anyone to call her though).She was just making it up as she went along,my guess is after figuring out the housekeeper as a suspect wasn't going to pan out.

 

[RiverRat]

We were waiting for YOU to mention it! :crazy: :blowkiss:

LOL - this is one of the tales that I never bought, so it always gives me pleasure to bring it back into the conversation! So, thank you very much for waiting for me to have the honor! John and Patsy never said a word about leaving the note in that location and The Bionic Man is the only person that I am aware of that can zoom in on fine print from a distance......

Didn't Barb Fernie end up putting distance between the Ramseys and herself even though her John still stands by their side?

 

[RiverRat]

I found Fernie's statement odd, too, RiverRat. Didn't he say he read it through the butler-kitchen door? What's your view on what Fernie said about reading the note through the door? I could only see that it meant either of three things: John and Patsy had placed the note in a location they did not disclose to the police (meaning they forgot their story and/or lied), or Fernie remembered incorrectly, or Fernie purposely lied.

http://www.acandyrose.com/06132001fernietestimony.htm

"John Fernie, "I drove my car into the -- up the alley and parked in the back of your house, and went around to the patio door, which was a glass door leading into the kitchen and back of the house, and didn't see anybody, but saw a piece of paper laying on the floor. Looked at that. It was facing the other direction. Read it. And after the first few lines realized something very strange was happening. And so I ran around to the front of the house and knocked on the door and was let in."

John Fernie: "I didn't pick it up. It was inside the door and I was outside. The door was locked. I read it through the door."

John Fernie: "Fleet and Priscilla White were there when I arrived. And my wife came shortly thereafter. And our -- Overstock, our priest, came afterwards as well."

:liar: :liar:

I am pretty sure that I took a picture of the spot where Fernie says he was standing outide and reading the upside-down note inside on the floor, but this area will not allow me up upload pics. Maybe I can find a FFJ link where it is stored?!

And some people went out for Fleet's blood all while this scammy story stayed in the background. :banghead:

 

[BOESP]

"John Fernie, "I drove my car into the -- up the alley and parked in the back of your house ... <snip>

So I guess Fernie didn't see the strange van in the alley that John claims to have seen after Fernie arrived at the house?

 

[RiverRat]

There is no way that he could have missed any vehicle in that alley as it is very tiny. We were creeped out over how small it was as a matter of fact.

This is a lengthy FFJ thread, but it does include many pictures of the Ramsey home and even conversations concerning exactly what we are discusing here if anyone is interested.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4603&page=1&pp=12&highlight=petition

 

[RiverRat]

Redd Herring has a wonderful diagram pointing out where Fernie allegedly was standing while reading the note and realizing what was happening...

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer10_blue.html

 

[BOESP]

Redd Herring has a wonderful diagram pointing out where Fernie allegedly was standing while reading the note and realizing what was happening...

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer10_blue.html

Interesting! I wonder how the note got from the spiral staircase all the way to the other end of the hall? Somebody lied. :innocent:

I enjoyed the great photos in the other thread too. Nice to put faces with names. The photos of the Ramsey house put things in perspective better than the other photos I've seen.

 

[DeeDee249]

It is very obvious that something is amiss with Fernie's statement. The spiral stairs are on the complete opposite side of the house from that glass door where Fernie claims to have seen the note.
Also, by the time he got there, there were others there, including Officer French. Now, presumably HE wore latex gloves to handle the note. Linda Arndt gave copies to everyone. Hopefully SHE wore latex gloves. Since their prints were not on the note, I guess they did. So did the note's author.
IF Fernie is telling the truth about where and how he read the note, someone else would have had to put it there. I just cannot imagine the Rs, or anyone else, putting it there. Obviously, PR/JR handled it to read it and took it OFF the spiral staircase. For the note to be where Fernie says it was, Linda Arndt would have had to put it there after making the copies. And I just don't think that happened. That note became evidence as soon as Officer French took it. As careless as LE were that morning, I just don't think anyone would just lay it on the floor near a kitchen back door and leave it there.
Now, here's a funny thing. I saw on one of the sites (was it acandyrose?) a photo of the note on the floor as photograhed THROUGH that glass door. I thought it was odd when I saw it- because the note was supposedly never photographed "in situ" where it was found on the spiral stairs. It had already been moved by the Rs by the time the first "visitor" (Officer French) arrived. So that had to have been a staged photo- maybe with one of the copies.
There are also no photos of the JBR's body "in situ" either- a crime in itself. This crime would have long been prosecuted- if JR had not been allowed to look for and "find" his daughter's body and carry it away from the crime scene.

 

[RiverRat]

The photos of the Ramsey house put things in perspective better than the other photos I've seen.

Thank you! Not bad for a couple of amatuers that were more worried about seeing Lou Smit pull up and ask us to pray with him....:innocent:

 

[JMO8778]

My guess is Fernie was there before the 911 call...thus his need to lie.I agree that the attorneys told JR to surround themselves w. friends,and he wanted to make sure *someone was there before LE arrived (or shortly afterwards !) Any thoughts?
After all,it's not like you can *count on anyone to be awake and ready to come over at 6am the day after Christmas !!

 

[JMO8778]

Thank you! Not bad for a couple of amatuers that were more worried about seeing Lou Smit pull up and ask us to pray with him....:innocent:

rofl!

 

[Littledeer]

The call to 911 came in at 5:52 A.M. from PR. The call to the White's was made at 6:00 A.M. and within minutes they were at the house and John Fernie was ALREADY there.

If Rick French was the first Police Officer on the scene, has he ever mentioned anywhere that Fernie was in the house? Has he mentioned who was at the house at that time???

Doesn't mean that Fernie hadn't already shown up, but if he read the note from outside, then went to the door and was let in, he was either hiding when Office French showed up and then let himself be noticed during all the confusion later in the morning or he arrived after Office French but before the White's.

 

[JMO8778]

The call to 911 came in at 5:52 A.M. from PR. The call to the White's was made at 6:00 A.M. and within minutes they were at the house and John Fernie was ALREADY there.

If Rick French was the first Police Officer on the scene, has he ever mentioned anywhere that Fernie was in the house? Has he mentioned who was at the house at that time???

Doesn't mean that Fernie hadn't already shown up, but if he read the note from outside, then went to the door and was let in, he was either hiding when Office French showed up and then let himself be noticed during all the confusion later in the morning or he arrived after Office French but before the White's.

I'd like to know that,too.Why would Fernie come in the back way anyway,when everyone else came in thru the front? Did he just say that b/c he was lying??

 

[BOESP]

I'd like to know that,too.Why would Fernie come in the back way anyway,when everyone else came in thru the front? Did he just say that b/c he was lying??

I found something interesting at ACandyRose:

1999 February 18
Lawrence Schillers book
"Perfect Murder, Perfect Town

(PMPT Page 236):

"John Fernie was angry when he read Charlie Brennan's story about footprints. Like many media storeis, this one fame from an unnamed source and made the Ramseys look guilty. Fernie wondered if the souce was provided the reporter with all the facts. He knew that his own footprints were there in the snow that morning. He had driven up the back alley to the Ramseys' house just after 6:00 A.M. in response to Patsys' frantic call that terrible morning. He remembered walking along the brick sidewalk to the patio door, looking through the glass panel, and reading a line or two of the ransom note, which was lying on the floor just inside the door. Then he ran through the snow-covered grass, around the south side of the house, to the front door. If the cops had been looking, they would have found his footprints."
http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-panic911.htm

Fernie either came after French had already checked for footprints (meaning French arrived before Fernie) or Fernie got there before French checked for prints so possibly Fernie arrived before the cops got there. I haven't found the time sequence for Officer's French and Weiss's arrival and the time the yard was checked.

Regardless, assuming that Fernie is telling the truth, Fernie's statement pretty much precludes any speculation about the spider re-weaving his web after the supposed Intruder moved the grate cover. Sounds like it was too cold for Mr. Spider to do much reweaving.

 

[DeeDee249]

I have read many books on this crime, but just don't recall if it was ever mentioned by Officer French that anyone other than the family was there when he arrived. 911 records show that he arrived within minutes of that 911 call (Arndt was sent later). If I were him, I'd be awfully suspicious about how one of their friends could have gotten there so fast, WHY a friend would be called at a time like that BEFORE the police, OR why a friend would be HIDING at all. And who took that picture of the note through the glass door? Because it wasn't where PR describes finding it. So wouldn't LE be asking to see the note? And wonder why it was placed in that spot?
Here's my thoughts on it:
It is possible that JR was CORRECT whent he made that slip-up about "There were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning"?
Maybe Fernie was called right after it happened...between midnight and 1am. Maybe there were others called then too, and maybe that's why they were all able to get themselves dressed and there again just after Officer French arrived at 6am. They were ALREADY up and dressed. They just went home (or to ONE home) and waited for that second phone call from the Rs.
Maybe the first thought was to say that the "intruder" got in through that door and that's why the note was placed there first. Later, that was changed to the story PR told, about finding the note on the stairs she always came down to get to the kitchen. Maybe it was decided that the stairs near the glass door were too out-of-the way or that PR wouldn't have "Found" it so easily there.

 

[JMO8778]

I have read many books on this crime, but just don't recall if it was ever mentioned by Officer French that anyone other than the family was there when he arrived. 911 records show that he arrived within minutes of that 911 call (Arndt was sent later). If I were him, I'd be awfully suspicious about how one of their friends could have gotten there so fast, WHY a friend would be called at a time like that BEFORE the police, OR why a friend would be HIDING at all. And who took that picture of the note through the glass door? Because it wasn't where PR describes finding it. So wouldn't LE be asking to see the note? And wonder why it was placed in that spot?
Here's my thoughts on it:
It is possible that JR was CORRECT whent he made that slip-up about "There were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning"?
Maybe Fernie was called right after it happened...between midnight and 1am. Maybe there were others called then too, and maybe that's why they were all able to get themselves dressed and there again just after Officer French arrived at 6am. They were ALREADY up and dressed. They just went home (or to ONE home) and waited for that second phone call from the Rs.
Maybe the first thought was to say that the "intruder" got in through that door and that's why the note was placed there first. Later, that was changed to the story PR told, about finding the note on the stairs she always came down to get to the kitchen. Maybe it was decided that the stairs near the glass door were too out-of-the way or that PR wouldn't have "Found" it so easily there.

that makes a lot of sense.I do think Fernie knows more than he is saying.
From descriptions,I do think FW was genuinely surprised when JB was found dead though..is it possible they were only told of the note,and that JB was missing,before the 911 call? If so then why not call LE sooner,or was Fernie the only one told that JB was already dead?
My other thought is that the friends were shown the note at 3 am or so,and not told anything else...the R's 'asked' for advice on what to do,w the friends taking the note at face value,thinking JB had been KN.But then comes the question,why would they come back,if they thought it would endanger JB's life?

 

[BOESP]

that makes a lot of sense.I do think Fernie knows more than he is saying.
From descriptions,I do think FW was genuinely surprised when JB was found dead though..is it possible they were only told of the note,and that JB was missing,before the 911 call? If so then why not call LE sooner,or was Fernie the only one told that JB was already dead?
My other thought is that the friends were shown the note at 3 am or so,and not told anything else...the R's 'asked' for advice on what to do,w the friends taking the note at face value,thinking JB had been KN.But then comes the question,why would they come back,if they thought it would endanger JB's life?

Morning JMO - I can't see a friend getting involved with a cover-up unless the friend was involved in the accident/death or, possibly, owed John a tremendously big favor of the same proportion. I just can't see more people getting involved. It opens up too many possibilities for someone to spill the beans.

Maybe John moved the note to the patio door to read it as Patsy called 911? Or maybe it was placed there originally as someone already said.