Fernie testimony

[Eagle1]

This thread is about Fernie's testimony that he made footprints when he arrived that morning, and BPD saying there were none, right?

So who's wrong, them, or him, re what time he actually arrived?

Did some perps get a weather report in advance, folks, and know there would be a light snow that morning to cover their tracks? That's another question we've been forgetting to ask. It's very possible they did check on the weather in advance and counted on it snowing.

 

[Solace]

Blue Crab's a very respected long term member who knows a lot about the case, is more detail-oriented than I am, and can probably fill in anything I may have left out. (Scientific questions are always someone else's department, not mine, the DNA, etc.)

We need BC's input and remember the TOS, never get rude about anyone.

I've told you what I recall about Susan Stine answering the door at the Ramseys' house during the party on the 23rd, sending the police away, and basically that's it. Extremely unusual. I never heard of anyone else doing such a thing. You're a little bit confused, aren't you, or know more than you're letting on, calling me Susan when we're discussing Susan Stine, but I'd only referred to her I believe as S. Stine. What's up with that?

Eagle1, It was a typographical error my calling you Susan, nothing more. I am not being rude about BlueCrab. Are we not alowed to have an opinion on another's posts? They are just inaccurate and I am bringing that up.

As far as Susan Stine answering the door and sending the police away, so what? There were lots of children at the party; there were I believe upwards of 100 people there and they were making gingerbread houses, etc. If you are saying that there were sexual games being played in a house with nearly 100 people and NO ONE HAS EVER told the police any of it, no one has ever uttered a word about it, then yes you are right, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT. For the simple fact alone, human beings just cannot keep their mouths shut. At least someone would have spoken about it and they have not.

But we have discussed this before and I feel it is a theory that pretty much is "out there" and if a pro-Ramsey person were to read it, they would turn away in disgust and they would be right in doing so. I enjoy discussing this case because hopefully one day it will be resolved. But it will never be resolved when time is wasted on theories such as that.

That is my answer Eagle. Have a good one.

 

[Eagle1]

Yes, I believe JonBenet was molested at the party in her home the 23rd, and the fact 100 or 1000 guests were there just tells us some could be missing for a while and it would be assumed they'd gone to a bathroom, if they were missed at all.

I don't know why Janet McReynolds went to the back stairway and found JonBenet. Maybe looking for a bathroom, or, the thought just occurred to me as I was typing this, maybe she missed JonBenet for some reason. Maybe even knew something. As I've said before, I'm not going to be drawn into anything with you, and maybe it's just me but remarks about long-standing member BlueCrab do seem very rude to me. I'm writing my opinions for all the members, and to tell you the truth I'm not at all influenced by your or anyone's not believing my way. I'm just very casually contributing what I think to keep conversation going , that we all enjoy or we wouldn't still be here, and I want to hear the others too.

 

[Solace]

Yes, I believe JonBenet was molested at the party in her home the 23rd, and the fact 100 or 1000 guests were there just tells us some could be missing for a while and it would be assumed they'd gone to a bathroom, if they were missed at all.

I don't know why Janet McReynolds went to the back stairway and found JonBenet. Maybe looking for a bathroom, or, the thought just occurred to me as I was typing this, maybe she missed JonBenet for some reason. Maybe even knew something. As I've said before, I'm not going to be drawn into anything with you, and maybe it's just me but remarks about long-standing member BlueCrab do seem very rude to me. I'm writing my opinions for all the members, and to tell you the truth I'm not at all influenced by your or anyone's not believing my way. I'm just very casually contributing what I think to keep conversation going , that we all enjoy or we wouldn't still be here, and I want to hear the others too.

What has BlueCrab's long-standing have to do with getting the facts straight. I am not going to debate this with you either. Those are my opinions about BlueCrab's "facts". I never said you had to be influenced by my not believing your theory. Believe what you will.

I think the theory that there was a sex game going on with 100+ people there is ludicrous and it has never been mentioned by anyone who was there that day. Never. There are too many people to keep quiet. Probably one of the reasons that we know about RFK and Marilyn and his visiting her on the day she died. There were just too many people to keep quiet. He was seen by too many people. So when that happens, people talk. No one is talking here. It is an out there theory.

 

[laini]

I think it would be easier to hide sexual abuse in a large house with lots of people and a party going on. It doesn't mean everyone was involved. Only one or two people could have been involved, and it woudln't be as noticeable if they were missing. Ufnrotuantely, isn't this how molestation often happens? At holidays or parties, taking a child to anotehr part of the house. I can easily see it happening.

 

[Solace]

I think it would be easier to hide sexual abuse in a large house with lots of people and a party going on. It doesn't mean everyone was involved. Only one or two people could have been involved, and it woudln't be as noticeable if they were missing. Ufnrotuantely, isn't this how molestation often happens? At holidays or parties, taking a child to anotehr part of the house. I can easily see it happening.

Sure it would be easy. But Eagle is talking about a " sex ring" here with the Ramseys friends involved and JonBenet the victim. She likened it to Rosemary's Baby, without the satanism involved. I don't think so.

 

[laini]

Sure it would be easy. But Eagle is talking about a " sex ring" here with the Ramseys friends involved and JonBenet the victim. She likened it to Rosemary's Baby, without the satanism involved. I don't think so.

Oh, I see. If that were the case, I agree that someone would have talked by now. I think sex abuse by one or two people at the party is much more likely.

 

[Solace]

Oh, I see. If that were the case, I agree that someone would have talked by now. I think sex abuse by one or two people at the party is much more likely.

Me too Laini, but not a sex ring where the friends are involved. Someone would have said something to someone and someone would have opened their mouth.

 

[JMO8778]

White claims Fernie was there when he arrived. Fernie claims White was there when he arrived. Who's the liar? Take your pick.

I choose Fernie as being the liar,but,(I don't know how to do a poll,anyone want to tackle that one?) I suspect Fernie might have been there b/f the 911 call...any thoughts?That is not to say he had anything to do with the murder,or even knew about it at that point,just that maybe the R's called him and asked him for 'advice' on the matter.(ie-a witness to some of it b/f LE was called).

 

[JMO8778]

I never get locked into any certain theory, remember, but consider a lot of different one. Nothing's impossible.

I'll let someone else recount S. Stine's dealing with the police at the Rs' house. You'd probably think I'm putting you on, if you haven't heart of it. Also, everyone feel free to tell me if I missed anything about Rosemary's Baby. Naturally I'm not claiming the Ramsey friends were satanists, nor am I claiming they're not. We just don't know. But by their own admission, Janet McReynolds', JonBenet was sitting on some back steps all alone crying, instead of playing with the other kids who were there or listening to McSanta or whatever may have been planned for them.

Sounds like to me she'd been taken away from the group and molested, told she was so pretty, and Janet McReynolds said she said "I don't feel pretty."

Where were the parents? I think that's a BIG question. I grant you that was low-down, not paying attention to JonBenet.

I really do think JonBenet was the one who attempted a 911 call, and that someone grabbed the phone away from her. That her killing was to silence her before she should get old enough to spill some kind of beans.

You may think S. Stine just didn't want the uninvolved friends, some of whom maybe hadn't heard about JonBenet crying to know police came to the house. That would be pretty obvious but not the whole story. She may also have known JonBenet would TELL something, that would be embarrassing for some or all of them. Maybe some didn't know, whatever it was. I'll let someone else fill in blanks.
.

Just the darn fact that SS didn't open the door speaks volumes to me...she had to have known something was amiss..and why did she answer the police anyway? It wasn't her home,so yea,where were the parents?
I'm RDI,but,add to that the Stines were the only ones the R's didn't point the finger at...says a lot I think.They were afraid to implicate them for some reason.One or more of them knew something about what went on that night,IMO.

 

[laini]

I have been thinking about the Stines lately as I am rereading all the books. Does anybody know why the Stines weren't called to come over by the Ramseys that morning when the Whites and Fernies were?


So the Ramseys pointed their fingers at teh Whites and the Fernies, but the Stines have been their closest friends through this all?

 

[JMO8778]

I have been thinking about the Stines lately as I am rereading all the books. Does anybody know why the Stines weren't called to come over by the Ramseys that morning when the Whites and Fernies were?

I don't think anybody knows for sure,but I have to wonder if it had something to do with the 23rd and what they knew about it.Knowing the police were coming and the body found at some point ..why did they not want them there?Were they not sure they could trust them at that point?

So the Ramsey's pointed their fingers at teh Whites and the Fernies, but the Stines have been their closes friends through this all?

yes,it seems so.
and SS never seemed to flinch about driving the kids to school,even though the 'small foreign faction' killed the R's daughter.what (or who rather?),caused her to be unafraid?
someone said in another post awhile back that she was known as a 'pitbull'.even so..I think I can counter that one very easily...

lone pitbull vs. SMALL FOREIGN FACTION

who would win???

 

[Eagle1]

Interesting question. Maybe they just didn't think of Stine at first, were just closer friends with FW and Fernie, or, maybe the Stines lived a little farther away. That's probably already been discussed and I need to re-read the thread again. Just bumping it up for now.

Editing to add I skimmed back through the first two pages and don't see anything about how far away the Stines lived. Anyone know?

Eventually the Ramseys left Pasta Jay's and went to stay with the Stines. Susan told them after a while she'd thought they wanted to just come for dinner.

So they weren't that close friends at that point. And I just remembered the name of the girl who was killed on the street near Pasta Jay's, Susannah Chase.

 

[Toltec]

PMPT...the book talks about Fernie telling Steve Thomas he was the first of the friends to arrive. He had initially thought John had had a heart attack. He drives in through the alley, gets out and heads to the door he usually enters, the patio door. It was locked. He then looks through the door and sees paper lying on the floor. He says it was upside down but that he could read the first couple of sentences saying JB was kidnapped.

HOW CLOSE WAS THE NOTE TO THE DOOR???

 

[Ames]

PMPT...the book talks about Fernie telling Steve Thomas he was the first of the friends to arrive. He had initially thought John had had a heart attack. He drives in through the alley, gets out and heads to the door he usually enters, the patio door. It was locked. He then looks through the door and sees paper lying on the floor. He says it was upside down but that he could read the first couple of sentences saying JB was kidnapped.

HOW CLOSE WAS THE NOTE TO THE DOOR???

Apparently VERY close...imo

 

[Eagle1]

So, Ames, do you believe he could read the first two lines through the door? We were all discussing this several days ago and wondering why it would be on the floor near that door with the glass in it.

I'll have to do some re-reading, I know. Meanwhile, just bumping this up.

 

[Eagle1]

Back on Pg 2, someone misquoted me that I thought the friends were a sex ring, Solace, when you were addressing laini.

I never said that. I was thinking more along the lines of some pagan experiment. McSanta's Celtic (small) harp with the notches for his quite a few dead little friends , plus there being a lot of pagans in the Boulder area, suggested that. Neither would I say there was no sex ring if someone else suggested that. We just weren't there.

Years ago we did quite a bit of research about the pagan mostly-outdoors ceremonies, but I don't remember much about it now. Just have an impression that may well have been part of the scenario. This crowd maybe liked their comfort indoors more than the original pagans, certainly could have been fooling around with it for all we know.

Good thing I did do some re-reading.

 

[Solace]

Back on Pg 2, someone misquoted me that I thought the friends were a sex ring, Solace, when you were addressing laini.

I never said that. I was thinking more along the lines of some pagan experiment. McSanta's Celtic (small) harp with the notches for his quite a few dead little friends , plus there being a lot of pagans in the Boulder area, suggested that. Neither would I say there was no sex ring if someone else suggested that. We just weren't there.

Years ago we did quite a bit of research about the pagan mostly-outdoors ceremonies, but I don't remember much about it now. Just have an impression that may well have been part of the scenario. This crowd maybe liked their comfort indoors more than the original pagans, certainly could have been fooling around with it for all we know.

Good thing I did do some re-reading.

Good morning Eagle,

The impression I got from your posts was exactly what I said a "sex ring" of some sort. JonBenet was found sexually violated and you said it may have involved some of the friends who may have stayed the night. If you think there may have been some sort of paganism going on and the child was found sexually violated, then I still think I assumed correctly.

 

[Eagle1]

Well, the funny thing is that I got an impression also, tried to edit that title to "Our" Impressions but no go. Never mind, of course. Let's get back on subject.

For the record, we found out years ago when WS was at a different address that Boulder Pagans held outdoor moonlight ceremonies. The article I read I think said two or maybe all got naked, role playing. Don't know if you'd still find that particular article by searching.

I simply speculated that since (1)McReynolds-McSanta had quite a few little friends who'd died, which is rather unusual in normal societies, and (2) he'd carved notches on his harp for each of them, (3) JonBenet had an injury, (4) something tells me there just may have been some kind of indoor Pagan something going on so that the R's weren't watching JonBenet, just like at their big party on the 23rd. I believe it was you who said she couldn't have been molested there because too many people around, and that you even claimed a lot of people saw Bobby Kennedy visit Marilyn Monroe. It was off subject so I didn't "I object." So I have the impression you may remember my actual tentative theory. I say the more people the less likely that any individual is being watched very closely, and I wondered why Janet McReynolds went looking for JonBenet and/or maybe a bathroom. I know we went through some of this little exchange before. I'm not getting into the Bobby Kennedy thing, except to say that all the assassination victims seemed to get slandered afterwards when they couldn't defend themselves. It's my guess Dr. King's sex sounds probably were in his own home with his wife. But what do we know?

Coroners said JonBenet had a vaginal injury just about that old. I forget the exact number of hours, which they said was healing.

By some strange coincidence she'd been crying at the party, and I believe,in my opinion, attempted a 911 call, and had an injury. Years ago some posters also said they found that no adult's mother was sick and the phone wasn't misdialed. The Ramseys seemed to be so mesmerized or something that they didn't even answer their own front door. Susan Stine was really making herself at home, and turned away police at the door.

Lainie, welcome if you're new, and I'm sure you read the previous pages of this thread so you'll not be confused about what Eagle said.

I consider many theories, not firm about any, too many possibilities.

Others have said sex ring, a lot, and we can't prove them right or wrong since none of us were there, I'm assuming. Hope I don't sound like I'm trying to be a know-it-all. I just cringe sometimes the unethical way people get talked about when they can't defend themselves, have been murdered. Sociopaths find fault with victims a lot. Propaganda being part of the plot by whoever killed them, most likely. I wouldn't believe it. Edited this post so much I sure hope there are no sentence fragments joined together wrong, don't really want to read the whole thing again right now. It's been a long day.