A few questions

[SapphireSteel]

Another question, how could Maddie be in the trunk of a car rented 22-24 days (I've read varying reports) after her disappearance? Where were they hiding her?

One more, I have ask this question many times no one has given me an answer, do you know 7 people that would cover up the murder of a child? What are the odds that 7 professionals would risk their own families and careers to cover something as horrifying as this. I would say slim to none. Moo

No one has ever suggested they murdered her.

7 professionals would most certainly do some fudging and synchronising of notes if they thought they might get charged with neglect. It would mean losing their careers, income, reputation.

What's a little white lie or two when you have other children to feed and raise? Easily justified if everyone genuinely does believe she's been abducted anyway...what's the harm?

Also we have proof of the synchronization. One child's colouring book which was used to create and recreate a "timeline", unasked.

Moo.

 

[Little Jedi]

As for Murat,that comes from amaral, a convicted criminal whose conviction is for perjury ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/102810/McCann-detective-guilty-of-perjury ). It does not match the final report which I linked to above or any of tanners statements which are at the same site. *Amarals statement demonstrates two things firstly that his claims do not match the police files. **Secondly, the fact he tried to get a potential witness to identify someone in this manner is appalling. Murat was not informed, there was no lawyer present, there was no attempt at an actual identity parade using men of similar colouring and stature wearing similar clothing. It was absolutely terrible behavior by the police.

FACTS * Lisbon Appeals Court Ruling 19 Oct 2010


" The author is an expert, as he was a criminal investigator for 26 years."

" goes on to show and state that while many parts of the book are in agreement with the case file, the book goes further by using, in a literary form, privileged information, thereby making it more than a mere repository of the procedural case work.

Finally,...... we still cannot understand how it is possible for said rights to be offended by the contents of a book that describes facts from the investigation,"

DECISION

The injunction is deemed not valid because it was not proven "


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/court_docs.htm


FACTS ** "Jane Tanner was approached by Bob Small, a Leicestershire police officer, ....

The scenario was set up for Jane to view Robert Murat walking across the top of the road, where she claimed to have seen the man carrying a child. On the way there, she was actually introduced to Robert Murat!"


http://tinyurl.com/otn3bzw

 

[Little Jedi]

Another question, how could Maddie be in the trunk of a car rented 22-24 days (I've read varying reports) after her disappearance? Where were they hiding her?

One more, I have ask this question many times no one has given me an answer, do you know 7 people that would cover up the murder of a child? * What are the odds that 7 professionals would risk their own families and careers to cover something as horrifying as this. I would say slim to none. Moo

*This is a pretty good explanation.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/SPUDGUN_STORY.htm

 

[Clutchbag]

If it hindered more than helped I might. The M's felt Tanner's sighting was more reliable. Come to find out they both told the truth and it wasn't GM after all. Poor Tanner, her named has been trashed, accused of help covering up the murder of a child. That is prime example of how wrong a person can be about someone based souly on rumors, hearsay and "gut feelings". I hope Tanner can at least breath a sigh of relief that she didn't witness the abduction.

How nice for her,better than be called"mistaken"by gerald prime suspect"

When shesaid she walked same side of the road as him and saw him with jez wilkins in her statements but she was bullied in them mccanns documentary, shocking

From1.20

Madeleine was here part 4/5 - YouTube

 

[Junebug99]

No one has ever suggested they murdered her.

7 professionals would most certainly do some fudging and synchronising of notes if they thought they might get charged with neglect. It would mean losing their careers, income, reputation.

What's a little white lie or two when you have other children to feed and raise? Easily justified if everyone genuinely does believe she's been abducted anyway...what's the harm?

Also we have proof of the synchronization. One child's colouring book which was used to create and recreate a "timeline", unasked.

Moo.

Link coloring book info please. Why would they be accused of neglect for the death of child that wasn't theirs? That makes no sense whatsoever. They left their children alone, which they never denied.

I am not reading that story that was posted, first few paragraphs was filled with false information. I'll assume no one can answer that question based on facts. Where was maddie between tod and being put in car.

Amaral was convicted of perjury, not technically either, making him unreliable moo.

 

[Clutchbag]

Link coloring book info please. Why would they be accused of neglect for the death of child that wasn't theirs? That makes no sense whatsoever. They left their children alone, which they never denied.

I am not reading that story that was posted, first few paragraphs was filled with false information. I'll assume no one can answer that question based on facts. Where was maddie between tod and being put in car.

Amaral was convicted of perjury, not technically either, making him unreliable moo.

Get your facts right..amaral was NOT convicted of perjury sigh

Moving ON.....mccanns were. Never ever cleared by anyone...in any offiicial capacity

 

[Little Jedi]

As for Murat,that comes from amaral, a convicted criminal whose conviction is for perjury ( http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/102810/McCann-detective-guilty-of-perjury ). *It does not match the final report which I linked to above or any of tanners statements which are at the same site. Amarals statement demonstrates two things firstly that his claims do not match the police files. * Secondly, the fact he tried to get a potential witness to identify someone in this manner is appalling. Murat was not informed, there was no lawyer present, there was no attempt at an actual identity parade using men of similar colouring and stature wearing similar clothing. It was absolutely terrible behavior by the police.

The times article made a point of saying that the e.fits had not been suppressed for some reason your quote of the article has not included that bit or the earlier dates the e.fits were given to the Portuguese.
The original article did not say they were removed after questioning their findings, but it does mention the financial crisis involving Kevin halligan who it is alleged took the funds money but did not pay oakley the investigators in this case. It also states that oakley themselves had to have over the e.fits to the police after being asked to by the find. That suggests the fund did not gave the e.fits themselves which given oakley never got paid in their eyes is not surprising. And if course any private investigators have a confiudebntiality clause, its normal for any contract but as this involves a missing child confidentiality clauses do not bar people from going to the police. It just stops people selling their story to red tops. If you read the article oakley got the confidentiality clause letter from the funds lawyers not the mccanns.

This entire post is completely incorrect !!

* Really ??
You didn't look very hard then !

JANE TANNER ROGATORY INTERVIEW


" Okay. And can you just go on to tell me a bit more about that surveillance?”......

" So we then carried on and I met Bob SMALL and Russell wrote down the number plate of the car just in case I was taken away. And, erm, then Bob drove me up to where, erm, the rest of the team were to do the surveillance. Erm, so I went off in the back of this like refrigerated, well it was pretending to be a refrigerated, erm, van...."


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

NOTE: See previous post(s) regarding rest.

 

[Little Jedi]

*Link coloring book info please*. Why would they be accused of neglect for the death of child that wasn't theirs? That makes no sense whatsoever. They left their children alone, which they never denied.

I am not reading that story that was posted, first few paragraphs was filled with false information. I'll assume no one can answer that question based on facts. Where was maddie between tod and being put in car.

Amaral was convicted of perjury, not technically either, making him unreliable moo.

* PJ Files: The Tapas Group's Statements - McCann Files

" The first two 'Tapas Group' timelines written by Russell O'Brien on the ripped off cover of Madeleine's sticker book, 04 May 2007 ...."


www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thanks for all your linkage help Jedi

Its always a surprise when you find out the defense hasn't actually read the brief before launching their argument!

 

[Junebug99]

No one has ever suggested they murdered her.

7 professionals would most certainly do some fudging and synchronising of notes if they thought they might get charged with neglect. It would mean losing their careers, income, reputation.

What's a little white lie or two when you have other children to feed and raise? Easily justified if everyone genuinely does believe she's been abducted anyway...what's the harm?

Also we have proof of the synchronization. One child's colouring book which was used to create and recreate a "timeline", unasked.

Moo.

Why would anyone other than the parents be charged with neglect? They never denied leaving their children at home. Covering up a death would carry a lot heavier penalty than "neglect".

It is well known that Amaral was convicted of perjury, thus making him unreliable moo.

Could you please link the coloring book accusation?

 

[Little Jedi]

Link coloring book info please. Why would they be accused of neglect for the death of child that wasn't theirs? That makes no sense whatsoever. They left their children alone, which they never denied.

*I am not reading that story that was posted, first few paragraphs was filled with false information. * I'll assume no one can answer that question based on facts. Where was maddie between tod and being put in car.

**Amaral was convicted of perjury, not technically either, making him unreliable moo.

* [modsnip]

Hmmm .....

**
She Lied !! Convicted of Lying !! - 2013

You think she's more reliable ??

Leoneor Ciprinao and her brother were in an incestuous relationship,
they were each sentenced to 16 years, for the killing of her daughter Joana Cipriano.

They killed her, after she came home early & found the brother & sister (her mother) having sex.
They then cut her body into pieces, kept parts in the refrigerator, the rest they burned & fed to the pigs to eat !!

# Convicted of 'Omission of Denunciation’ ( failing to file a report ) not perjury

[modsnip]
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - A few questions


ps. Article was actual agreeing with you & gives a very interesting explanation regarding Tapas 7 !

 

[Little Jedi]

Why would anyone other than the parents be charged with neglect? They never denied leaving their children at home. Covering up a death would carry a lot heavier penalty than "neglect".

It is well known that Amaral was convicted of perjury, thus making him unreliable moo.

Could you please link the coloring book accusation?

I've just linked one above (with quote)

If not good enough then take your pick ;

Madeleine Colouring Book Timeline

http://tinyurl.com/p9etlzo

 

[Junebug99]

Your link is not a documented fact. If you have documented facts stating where Maddie was between tod and the renault by all means post them.

 

[Little Jedi]

Thanks for all your linkage help Jedi

Its always a surprise when you find out the defense hasn't actually read the brief before launching their argument!

:seeya:
No problem, it's not like they're hard to find.

Well not if you've actually read the files !!

 

[Little Jedi]

*Your link is not a documented fact*. If you have documented facts stating where Maddie was between tod and the renault by all means post them.

*Not a documented fact* ???
What are you talking about ?

It's the Official PJ Reports ( including photographs with official stamp on !! )

I think that's about as 'well documented' fact as your gonna get !

As for TOD question I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[~n/t~]

Another question, how could Maddie be in the trunk of a car rented 22-24 days (I've read varying reports) after her disappearance? Where were they hiding her?

One more, I have ask this question many times no one has given me an answer, do you know 7 people that would cover up the murder of a child? What are the odds that 7 professionals would risk their own families and careers to cover something as horrifying as this. I would say slim to none. Moo

I'm unsure where you're reading varying reports. Are you perhaps referring to comments / opinions made by readers? When the report came out that one of Grimes dogs hit on the McCanns vehicle people started to speculate but I've never seen any reporters or journalists confirm they believed she was in the trunk for 22-24 days. If I'm wrong please refer me to the reports you are referring to. Thanks

As for your second question, again based on speculation. Some believe there was a pact but that was just rumour. There is no doubt in my mind that some of the tapas 7 were concerned about possible child neglect charges

 

[~n/t~]

*Not a documented fact* ???
What are you talking about ?

It's the Official PJ Reports ( including photographs with official stamp on !! )

I think that's about as 'well documented' fact as your gonna get !

As for TOD question I have no idea what you are talking about.

I believe she means time of death. TOD

 

[Little Jedi]

I believe she means time of death. TOD

:loveyou:

Yeah, I meant where did Maddie being hidden there during that time come into it ?
I was replying to the post quoting my link regarding the colouring book.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - A few questions

 

[brit1981]

Why are you linking to a 4 year old article in the British Press ??

'Published: Fri, May 22, 2009'

She lied !!

She's been found guilty of lying !!

Leonor Cipriano sentenced for lying about torture by Portuguese (PJ) police officers

April 2, 2013


www.zimbio.com/Politica+-+Portugal/...r+Cipriano+sentenced+lying+torture+Portuguese


"Gonçalo Amaral was found guilty of false testimony because he upheld, under oath - five months after the 'events' - the version that he had been given by his subordinates,....

"His defence, was that he could not have given another version of the facts because this was what the inspectors who witnessed the episode, reported to him."

www.mccannfiles.com/id248.html‎

There is no account of his criminal conviction being overturned. Amaral still told a court he knew her to have sustained the injuries from falling downstairs even though she was in fact tortured by police.
No court has overturned the ruling that the mother was in fact tortured by police. Her perjury conviction is because sdhe identified the officers, yet the court ruled as the officers hooded the mother before torture commenced she could not be certain they actually performed the acts of torture. Thats in the link above.

 

[brit1981]

Can you please show me where in this case Amaral has been found "unreliable?"

Amaral was merely the figurehead of the Portugese investigation. He is not the only one who has worked this case. He has followed the evidence and copped he blame although he merely cog in a machine.

Wikileaks revealed that it was the British who first "developed evidence" against the McCann's, who then brought across a British Police owned pair of scent dogs, who were being handled by PC Martin Grime.

We still don't know what that original evidence was BTW...:seeya:

Wikileaks revealed that a British diplomat told an american counterpart that British police developed the evidence, it does not mean this is true nor does it say it was before the dogs.

The final report previously linked to goes through the reasons there were given aguido status and these were the dogs and the first understanding of the DNA in the car by the pj. Both of these pieces of evidence were developed by the British police via grime and the fss. But the final report goes on to say these were in the end not evidence.

There is nothing to suggest that there is other evidence against the mccanns that has been witheld. It is incorrect to say we don't know what the evidence was since it's described in the final report.
The wikileaks cable did not tell us anything not known.