A New Look at Intruder Theories

[LI_Mom]

JMO8778,
The biggest joke about the kidnapping theory is that they left the victim behind. With JonBenet removed from the house dead or alive, the parents would have no way of knowing JonBenet's status, consider Madeliene McCann?


.

Exactly!!!

If it wasn't about money BUT because you wanted to make John & Patsy suffer, the best way is to make sure they spend the rest of their lives wondering "what IF Jonbenet is still alive somewhere?"

Madeleine, Natolee Holloway.... endless other parents who have no closure.

Leaving that long RN is just too much of risk... what if it leads LE to you through forensics that you might not even be aware of..... why take that chance if you didn't even want the money anyway????

Anyway you look at it... the RN makes no sense. None at all.

 

[LI_Mom]

SD, if you can't see the socialism in the RN, then its because you've chosen not to. Its there. FBI profiler Clint VanZandt saw it.

That's NOT what Van Zandt said at all.... not even close.

If you have a link to back up your (false) claim, I'd appreciate it.



http://www.newsweek.com/id/96862/output/print

1 - Claiming to be part of a terrorist organization is a common ruse in ransom notes. Van Zandt says he sees 'no linguistic evidence' to imply a foreign connection.

5 - Despite threats of violence throughout the note, Van Zandt says, it has a 'softness' suggesting its author was a woman or perhaps a 'genteel man.'

6 - The letter is full of commanding phrases like this one about 'immediate execution.' To Van Zandt, they point to an author used to exerting authority over others.

7 - The line 'If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies' echoes the movie 'Dirty Harry,' as do other phrases. Van Zandt says: 'This is a novice trying to sound like an experienced criminal.'

8 - The note's salutation is formal, but here the overall tone becomes more familiar and casual. Van Zandt thinks the writer may be suggesting a personal acquaintance with John Ramsey.

10 - With its connotations of revolution, the closing 'Victory!'-harks back to the connection to foreign powers. 'S.B.T.C' may be another attempt to sound foreign, says Van Zandt.

 

[sandraladeda]

Wow Hotyh, you didn't answer my questions.

Quelle surprise! :hand:

 

[LI_Mom]

I take it, based on your response, that you didn't read the definition of buss.


-Tea

I think Ames was just picking up on your theme (play on the word) & making his/her own joke.

 

[LI_Mom]

Wow Hotyh, you didn't answer my questions.

Quelle surprise! :hand:

French? Hmmmmm.......

Did YOU write the RN??!!! lol

 

[sandraladeda]

I don't have to show you an example of foreign KN, as you cannot show me an example of a filicide with sexual assault and fake kidnap for ransom note.

What you freely state as fact, I don't have to put into a SFF scenario, because its not actual fact. Some of the expert testimony of chronic abuse was incorrectly interpreted to mean 'previously' abused. There was and is no official position that JBR was ever sexually abused prior to the night of the murder. Read Cyril Wecht's quote, where he concluded that she was sexually abused because of injuries she sustained that night, not because he could tell that she was sexually abused on a chronic basis prior to that night. Thats an RDI myth used to sell tabloids, thats all.

What I can describe in common with the R case is crime committed by a mother,then a false story concocted to explain the crime.

Susan Smith (black dudes carjacked her with the children in the car)
Diane Downs (gunman on road shot her and her kids)
Darlie Routier (intruder killed two of her children then wounded her slightly, she has about 16 versions of what happened)

Darn, that's all I can think of off the top of my head without having to get up from my chair and go look up other cases! But I bet other posters can help me out...

 

[sandraladeda]

French? Hmmmmm.......

Did YOU write the RN??!!! lol

Oui, je suis Francois, et je ne t'aime pas M. Ramsey!
Je deteste le chat gros!

Bwwaaaaa haaaa haaahaaa haaa.......
(....twirling le moustache avec mes doigts...)

 

[LI_Mom]

Oui, je suis Francois, et je ne t'aime pas M. Ramsey!
Je deteste le chat gros!

Bwwaaaaa haaaa haaahaaa haaa.......
(....twirling le moustache avec mes doigts...)

Trying to dredge up some of my old h.s. French.....

If I'm remembering correctly....... oh merde!!!!

*calling Mary Lacy* lol

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

That's NOT what Van Zandt said at all.... not even close.

If you have a link to back up your (false) claim, I'd appreciate it.




10 - With its connotations of revolution, the closing 'Victory!'-harks back to the connection to foreign powers. 'S.B.T.C' may be another attempt to sound foreign, says Van Zandt.

This is Van Zandt seeing a socialistic reference in the note, that most RDI mistakenly take for a religious reference, even though the note is packed with political stuff, zero religion. VanZandt was correct to note that the closing salutation Victory! is a political, socialistic reference and not religious.

 

[LI_Mom]

This is Van Zandt seeing a socialistic reference in the note, that most RDI mistakenly take for a religious reference, even though the note is packed with political stuff, zero religion. VanZandt was correct to note that the closing salutation Victory! is a political, socialistic reference and not religious.

Oh, I see..... you're completely misunderstanding what he's saying.....

He's explaining that it's an attempt to make it SOUND LIKE it's some foreigner.... we know that because he uses the word "connotations."

It's someone POSING as something they are not & not doing a very good job of it because the bottom line is Van Zandt says the author is actually most likely a WOMAN or GENTEEL MAN.... even though they're trying to sound like some tough guy.

 

[Ames]

I am trying to keep track of all the trains of thought you've got going on here. Can you help me out here?

Your perp is a wealthy foreigner who can afford all the great expenses of flying in the SFF dudes to take JBR away from her father.

First of all, wouldn't the perp's wealth make him a "fat cat" too?

Secondly, what draws this wealthy man (who clearly must have everything if he can afford the expense involved here, just so he can settle a score with JR) into a "faction" - what is he so disgruntled about? It sounds as though he and JR would be "birds of a feather", no?

Finally, of all the IDI's I have encountered, I don't know of any who actually believe that a SFF is involved. Does the RST believe it was a SFF? Does Mary Lacy?

Heck, even John Ramsey himself, didn't believe it was a SFF and said it was an INSIDE JOB...and he..better than anyone...should know.

 

[Ames]

I doubt that even makes sense to you, HOTYH.

I think you have chosen a position (R did not DI, therefore IDI) and you are trying to read everything in such a way as to defend R did not DI, IDI.

HOTYH, have you even read any books on this case?

The easiest thing for the perp to do, whatever their motive, would be this - once inside the house, they (one perp or the team of 2 or 3, as you suggest) bind, gag, and haul JBR out of the house. That's it. If there is any need to communicate to JR (about his business practices, "the country they serve" or anything else ) it could be handled by phone call.

"Hi JR, Listen carefully! We are a SFF and we have your daughter!..." etc.

A phone call at 5 AM is better than a RN - there would be no police trace on the phone, and they would be far away. If the perp was sooo rich, and spent sooo much money planning this, then subduing a 6 year old and gettign her out of the house and to a safe hideout would have been nothing. I could do it single handledly!!

Fact: " only about 6% of child murders are committed by strangers, while an overwhelming 54% are committed by family members." (the FBI, quoted in JonBenet:Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, ST)

Also from ST's book -

"I think it was someone with intimate knowledge of my family and how we lived day to day. Why would they leave the ransom note on the back stairway and not the front?" (JAR)

He (JAR) ridiculed the idea of a small foreign faction being involved, was certain the crime had nothing to do with his father's company, and questioned why a ransom note was left at all.

I ask again - did the Rs ever actually think a SFF was involved? or is HOTH the only person on the planet who thinks the SFFDI?

Oh, and don't forget that out of almost three pages of RN, and "hatred toward John", not one single curse word was written. If this intruder hated JR enough to kill his daughter, the note would have certainly began...You Son of a -itch! I hate your fu_king guts...that is why I have your daughter. $118,000.00 for her safe return.

That intruder not only was neat and tidy...he placed the Sharpie back in the holder, but...also had very good morals. His mother must be proud.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Oh, I see..... you're completely misunderstanding what he's saying.....

He's explaining that it's an attempt to make it SOUND LIKE it's some foreigner.... we know that because he uses the word "connotations."

It's someone POSING as something they are not & not doing a very good job of it because the bottom line is Van Zandt says the author is actually most likely a WOMAN or GENTEEL MAN.... even though they're trying to sound like some tough guy.

Not really, I correctly noted that he thinks Victory! is a revolutionary political reference. You're apparently claiming I can't use his observation because it was made in a RDI context. Of course I can use it, because it shows Victory! as political left, not religious or whatever.

 

[BBB167893]

I'll ask if you have any links to any articles since July?

Your wish is my command:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/16838417/detail.html That's one.

http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2008/07/touch-of-dna.html I didn't mention Pat Brown, but this is a good one, if it still works.

womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2008/07/factual-evidence-in-jonbent-ramsey-case.html Or maybe it's this one.

http://www.patriotledger.com/news/c...ould-apologize-to-JonBenet-not-to-her-parents Another one.

Kane can be found on the "Abrams Report" transcript at MSNBC.com

And Baden was on Caplis & Silverman at KHOW.com
http://khow.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=275127&article=3747424 You'll have to listen to it rather than read it. I hope your computer can do it, because I don't know any other way.

That's it for now. Well, there's one by a law professor, Paul Campos. I'll include it just for the sake of completeness:

http://www.speroforum.com/site/arti...der+DA+exonerates+Ramseys,+then+leaves+office

Not 'lovingly wrapped up'. That idea was just ridiculous.

Was it?

in his 1998 interview, John said that whoever did it had taken enough time to carefully tuck her in, like a "papoose."
MIKE KANE: This is really important. That blanket, I mean, was it like there was care taken? It was neatly folded?
JOHN RAMSEY: I thought so, yeah.
MIKE KANE: It wasn't like it was just barely thrown over her?
JOHN RAMSEY: No, it looked like somebody was trying to make her comfortable, because it was under her, completely under her head and brought
up around her, as if you would wrap a --
MIKE KANE: Papoose?
JOHN RAMSEY: -- a papoose.

 

[BBB167893]

We are a group of individuals...

...but not the country that it serves.

You're not the only fat cat...

Victory!

SD, if you can't see the socialism in the RN, then its because you've chosen not to.

If you knew anything about me, you'd know that's not true. Number one, I tried not seeing the obvious in the case a long time ago. It didn't agree with me. Secondly, I live in a state where our elected Congressional representative IS a socialist, Mr. Sanders. Thirdly, my college days were not that long ago, and I heard a LOT of socialist talk in those days. I know what the real deal sounds like.

Its there. FBI profiler Clint VanZandt saw it.

I guess he must have changed his mind, because back in 2006 he was on a lot of programs dealing with this case (JMK, you know) and he said that after he and a group of other profilers got a chance to really analyze it, they said, and I quote, it was either written by "a woman or a very genteel male." In fact, and this was on MSNBC (I'll look for it), he said that even with this new DNA, you can still come out 50-50. So I guess he belongs on the list, as well. Thanks for reminding me!

20 CASKU agents never mentioned it, did they.

EXACTLY! They didn't mention it because it wasn't there. In fact, let's take a look at what they said. From "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," paperback, page 497:

"Words like 'we' and 'us,' 'my group,' 'we're large,' and 'we're big' were absent. The kidnappers called themselves a 'small foreign faction.' That raised the question, foreign to whom? From whose point of view were they writing? Real foreigners would not refer to themselves as foreign."

 

[BBB167893]

SD was noting that four from his 'army of professionals' have made their case since July. I wanted to read those, if thats OK with you. Next time maybe I should check with you first.

Easy, Holdon. Sandraladeda was merely saying that there seems to be an implication that since all of them have not come forward (more likely haven't been asked), they must have changed their minds. They made their conclusions. They're in the case file (or I'm willing to bet they are). All the DA has to do is talk to them, and she has gone to lengths NOT to talk to them.

 

[BBB167893]

That's NOT what Van Zandt said at all.... not even close.

If you have a link to back up your (false) claim, I'd appreciate it.



http://www.newsweek.com/id/96862/output/print

1 - Claiming to be part of a terrorist organization is a common ruse in ransom notes. Van Zandt says he sees 'no linguistic evidence' to imply a foreign connection.

5 - Despite threats of violence throughout the note, Van Zandt says, it has a 'softness' suggesting its author was a woman or perhaps a 'genteel man.'

6 - The letter is full of commanding phrases like this one about 'immediate execution.' To Van Zandt, they point to an author used to exerting authority over others.

7 - The line 'If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies' echoes the movie 'Dirty Harry,' as do other phrases. Van Zandt says: 'This is a novice trying to sound like an experienced criminal.'

8 - The note's salutation is formal, but here the overall tone becomes more familiar and casual. Van Zandt thinks the writer may be suggesting a personal acquaintance with John Ramsey.

10 - With its connotations of revolution, the closing 'Victory!'-harks back to the connection to foreign powers. 'S.B.T.C' may be another attempt to sound foreign, says Van Zandt.

That one's going in the book!

 

[BBB167893]

What you freely state as fact, I don't have to put into a SFF scenario, because its not actual fact. Some of the expert testimony of chronic abuse was incorrectly interpreted to mean 'previously' abused. There was and is no official position that JBR was ever sexually abused prior to the night of the murder. Read Cyril Wecht's quote, where he concluded that she was sexually abused because of injuries she sustained that night, not because he could tell that she was sexually abused on a chronic basis prior to that night. Thats an RDI myth used to sell tabloids, thats all.

You know, Holdon, I've let you get away with that dodge up to now. But even I have my limits.

No official position? I guess that means the reports which are no doubt languishing in the case file don't exist? Sure, I can see the problems with Wecht's analysis. The tabloids were the catalyst in his case. Trouble is, eight different pediatric and forensic experts agreed with him, independently of each other.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Your wish is my command:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/16838417/detail.html That's one.

Thanks SD.

"Wecht says none of this explains evidence of previous sexual abuse on JonBenet's body."

What evidence is that?? His interpretation of autopsy photos? Dr. Meyer, who actually DID attend JBR, had NOTHING to say about previous sexual abuse.

"Cyril Wecht entered the case via a phone call from a supermarket tabloid, the Globe. "

No surprise there.

"Wecht was not involved in the criminal investigation of the Ramsey murder but he reviewed all the evidence and eventually wrote a book about the case."

No way, I can't believe THAT.

Did Dr. Meyer write a book? Anyway, I think Dr. Wecht is probably going to stick to his 'story' until the cows literally come home. How cool is that, to profit from a child's tragedy by claiming she was previously abused, without corroboration from those who actually attended JBR, or those who were actually involved in the criminal investigation.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You know, Holdon, I've let you get away with that dodge up to now. But even I have my limits.

No official position? I guess that means the reports which are no doubt languishing in the case file don't exist? Sure, I can see the problems with Wecht's analysis. The tabloids were the catalyst in his case. Trouble is, eight different pediatric and forensic experts agreed with him, independently of each other.

OK whatever you say:

"Cyril Wecht entered the case via a phone call from a supermarket tabloid, the Globe. "