A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[Chilly Willy]

The stealing and cashing Amy's checks just knocks me out cold, how in the world did she think she was going to get away with that?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that she had been stealing from her family for so long and had never had to face those consequences that she just figured Amy would be as forgiving as cindy. She has serious boundary issues, it's like she saw her family as these people you use, and when she couldn't go home to steal from cindy she just as natural as you please starting stealing from Amy.

I think in Casey's mind when the checks were accepted at Target or cashed at BOA, she had gotten away with it. The consequences of her actions were something she'd worry about later, if at all.

 

[maur33]

Casey told Jesse G. on June 16 she was moving out of her parent's home. She was up all night June 15 and into the wee hours of June 16 talking to and texting Tony saying she was moving out of her parent's home that very day.

Tony told Casey that SHE was welcome to stay with him but Caylee wasn't.
According to Tony, Casey moved in with him June 16.

She left her parent's home according to her phone pings at about 4:18 and was pinging at Tony's by 4:25. Jesse may have heard Caylee in the background when he talked to Casey at 2:52.

According to Tony's roommates and Tony and the Blockbuster videotape, Casey was bubbly and a happy camper on June 16...the day Caylee died.

Wow. I can't believe I missed that tony said that to her.

 

[CBTampa]

I am wondering what hard evidence we have of premeditation. As best I can tell, the reasons cited for believing in premeditation are KC's actions and statements on and after June 16. But the only evidence cited prior to June 16 are the "suspicious" 12 minutes worth of computer searches done in mid-March. The alleged Cindy-chokes-KC incident is sometimes cited as well, although it is not clear to me how that proves KC pre-planned Caylee's murder.:waitasec:

Just to stir things up further, do the following two images uploaded on April 25 to KC's Photobucket account support pre-meditation, or are they meaningless?

OMG I had not seen those before. I think looking at now...it does have meaning. Sometimes jurors have to use common sense during a trial. This reaches out to my common sense. Anyone else?

 

[maur33]

I think in Casey's mind when the checks were accepted at Target or cashed at BOA, she had gotten away with it. The consequences of her actions were something she'd worry about later, if at all.

Yup, I am not much of an LP quoter, but he seems on the money with the she "lives her life 10 minutes at a time".

 

[Jolynna]

Tony may have been letting her know he wasn't in for the long haul, but Casey seems to be a girl that lives for the moment.

She herself said that *love* was worth the risk of potential future pain.

She was mad at her parents and leaving. She was head-over-heels-in-love with Tony. Tony said she could stay with him but that Caylee couldn't.

Caylee dies that very day.

Videotapes show Casey blissfully arm in arm with the boyfriend she has just moved in with shortly after Caylee died.

 

[CBTampa]

I think in Casey's mind when the checks were accepted at Target or cashed at BOA, she had gotten away with it. The consequences of her actions were something she'd worry about later, if at all.

I agree...and she treated Caylee the same way.

 

[Marple]

Wow. I can't believe I missed that tony said that to her.

I am not sure that's a direct quote. I'll have to go look but I think he told LE that he'd told KC he didn't think it was a good environment for a child (and he was right).

That's not the same as saying KC is welcome but Caylee isn't. One sounds harsh, the other sounds reasonable, IMO.

 

[CBTampa]

I am not sure that's a direct quote. I'll have to go look but I think he told LE that he'd told KC he didn't think it was a good environment for a child (and he was right).

That's not the same as saying KC is welcome but Caylee isn't. One sounds harsh, the other sounds reasonable, IMO.

This is what I remember too. I wonder what Tony has told LE.

 

[Jolynna]

I think in Casey's mind when the checks were accepted at Target or cashed at BOA, she had gotten away with it. The consequences of her actions were something she'd worry about later, if at all.

Kinda like Tony's hints that he was planning to live and work in NY. Or doing something about her smelly car. Or coming up with something to tell Cindy IF Cindy ever caught up with her and wanted to see Caylee.

Hmmm...actually she DID have the "One more day" ready to tell Cindy. Bet she was shocked that that wasn't good enough.

IMO

 

[Jolynna]

I am not sure that's a direct quote. I'll have to go look but I think he told LE that he'd told KC he didn't think it was a good environment for a child (and he was right).

That's not the same as saying KC is welcome but Caylee isn't. One sounds harsh, the other sounds reasonable, IMO.

The result is still that Tony said Caylee couldn't stay at his apartment.

I don't fault Tony. But, it did make Caylee an impediment to what Casey wanted to do.

IMO

 

[Rumpole]

Before I vote I would like to know what definition of "premeditated" we are using.

The evidence from prior computer searches etc is at best very slim.
Does being in a fit of rage and doing the deed straight away constitute premeditation? I don't think so. It is still a horrendous crime? Yes in my view.

There is any amount of evidence to show that KC was for some time a conniving devious thief. Probably a bad mother who dragged her child all over the place, but did she plan a murder? I think not. I think she did a murder but it was "spur of the moment. How does Florida law define that? Murder2?

 

[Jolynna]

(Bold by me) And when Tony didn't respond to Casey, she threw him under the bus with the rest of her "suspects." During LA's jailhouse visit to Casey, LA goes through a list of people and asks Casey if they are trustworthy.(including Mom and Dad, lol) Tony is on the "don't trust" list. Spiteful *****?

He dumped her.

Like Caylee, Tony stopped serving a purpose.

 

[maur33]

I am not sure that's a direct quote. I'll have to go look but I think he told LE that he'd told KC he didn't think it was a good environment for a child (and he was right).

That's not the same as saying KC is welcome but Caylee isn't. One sounds harsh, the other sounds reasonable, IMO.

It still sort of shocks me, I really hadn't known that he said anything like this to her at all.

 

[Chilly Willy]

It still sort of shocks me, I really hadn't known that he said anything like this to her at all.

Tony also told her at one time that if he had kids he wanted only boys. He's also the one, in case you're not aware, that broke the lock off George's shed. Tony isn't, IMO, the sweet wonderful guy people want to think he is.

 

[Jolynna]

It still sort of shocks me, I really hadn't known that he said anything like this to her at all.

Yes...he said it nicer than "Caylee isn't welcome" but the meaning to Casey would be the same.

Casey is over at Tony's by 4:30 p.m. "moving in" minus Caylee.

 

[CBTampa]

Tony also told her at one time that if he had kids he wanted only boys. He's also the one, in case you're not aware, that broke the lock off George's shed. Tony isn't, IMO, the sweet wonderful guy people want to think he is.

As far as this case goes, I think he is totally innocent. IMO

 

[Chilly Willy]

As far as this case goes, I think he is totally innocent. IMO

That I agree with, although some of his comments may have influenced Casey's actions to a degree.

 

[maur33]

Yes...he said it nicer than "Caylee isn't welcome" but the meaning to Casey would be the same.

Casey is over at Tony's by 4:30 p.m. "moving in" minus Caylee.

Wow just wow. (where the heck have I been)

 

[metalcrystal]

Tony also told her at one time that if he had kids he wanted only boys. He's also the one, in case you're not aware, that broke the lock off George's shed. Tony isn't, IMO, the sweet wonderful guy people want to think he is.

Oh you are so right about that. Lots of drugs there, JMO. Lots! But of course, "Toni's room mates smoke weed", according to KC, that was funny. And what was also funny was when all the wannabe gangstas actually met a real criminal they ran for cover. Only Maria K.had a clue what they were dealing with.

 

[Lanie]

I am wondering what hard evidence we have of premeditation. As best I can tell, the reasons cited for believing in premeditation are KC's actions and statements on and after June 16. But the only evidence cited prior to June 16 are the "suspicious" 12 minutes worth of computer searches done in mid-March. The alleged Cindy-chokes-KC incident is sometimes cited as well, although it is not clear to me how that proves KC pre-planned Caylee's murder.:waitasec:

Just to stir things up further, do the following two images uploaded on April 25 to KC's Photobucket account support pre-meditation, or are they meaningless?

LOL, I posted what would be a response to this about why I think it was not an accident yesterday, but it went to server not available, and I hadn't copied, so I will do it again.
IMHO, the photos are meaningless.
Casey was lying to people at least as far back as her pregnancy with Caylee. Rick claims Cindy defended her on the pregnancy lies at his wedding. I don't have all the details of these incidents, but there have been allusions made to Casey stealing checks/money from Lee, charging up her parents credit cards, a $4000 fake deposit to her parents account, stealing at least twice from her grandparents, stealing from Caylee's college fund, and stealing from Caylee's piggy bank. Those are just off the top of my head. Rick says Cindy covered for Casey about the grandparent theft. George says Cindy covered for Casey on the $4000 fake deposit, apparently, regardless of the thefts by Casey, money was STILL being put in the college fund and piggy bank. (That is something that blows my mind. One theft, and I would have taken her name off the account or opened a new one, but I digress...) Then we have Cindy allegedly going to a therapist who advises her to get custody of Caylee and put Casey to the curb. Lee tells LE Casey has always lived with the parents, and has never financially supported Caylee. I don't think this stuff happened out of the blue. IMO, resentment, anger, whatever, started building up with Cindy towards Casey, and IMO, she was starting to call Casey on her behavior. We have JG and RG claiming a few incidents of Cindy ragging on Casey, then we have testimony of Cindy telling Ryan(?) Casey is a sociopath, she's calling whoever to find out if Casey works at the Sports Authority (after 3 years of buying into the Universal event planner job), she is allegedly calling Casey in the middle of the night to bring Caylee home when they were at RM's (and in fairness, Cindy denies this, but I don't believe her.), and I also believe this theft from the grandparents was a huge embarrassment to Cindy. MOO, I see all this as being Cindy finally starting to open her eyes and trying to make Casey accountable for her actions. I see Casey as having none of this. I think Casey was offended by being called to account, and was seeing Caylee as no longer an asset to continue her freeloading ways, but a burden to her, and I think she killed her as the ultimate " you" to her mother.
Lanie