Murder 1 or a Lesser Included Offense?

[LambChop]

No child is dead until a doctor says so. KC has no medical degree. No excuse to not call 911. KC had no problems with calling them when she was in no immediate danger only a threat by protestors who were standing on the sidewalk in front of her home while she was out on bail. Somehow she managed to do that on her own because she thought her life was in danger. With mother's it is usually the other way around. You dismiss what you might feel is dangerous for you but do not hesitate when your child is in danger. jmo

 

[LambChop]

When you think about it KC was fully responsible for her child. She lied to LE about where her child was and no one would know but KC where her child was and who she left Caylee with. So if DT tries to say the body was put there AFTER KC was in jail how does that make KC any less responsible for the death of her child. There was no reason not to tell LE if she placed the child in someone else's hands. Either way she caused the death of her child. She can't prove otherwise.

As far as her parents, they are on video and their fear is genuine unlike their happy-go-lucky daughter, I'm so glad to be rid of that responsibilty (Bella Vita) KC. The reactions between CA on the 911 call and GA in his interviews with the FBI and LE are very different. GA claims KC sometimes talks in code, some truth to her stories based on lies. Telling her father that Caylee was "close to home" will have an impact on the jury I am sure. Makes you wonder how much DT knew because after that visit all visits with her parents were cut off.

In the final analysis, KC and KC alone was responsible for her child and there is no way she can get around that. Blaming someone else will just make it harder on her when it comes time for the jury to decide. Most people do not like to see someone "bear false witness" against another person because they could be that person themselves. jmo

 

[Tulessa]

Bumping this thread:

I didn't know where else to put this, but a comment left by Richard Hornsby that was made in the Ask a Lawyer thread, has got me thinking. Could Casey Anthony be found guilty of a lesser charge?

I copied Beach's post over there (thanks Beach)

FL Statute 782.07(3) - aggravated manslaughter of a child

(3) A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084

Per FL sentencing guidelines, I believe that would carry a sentence of 30 years.

(Also, per RH's comment posted on April 12, 2010 @ 12:15p)
http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2010/04/of-rats-and-women/comment-page-2/#comments)


I need someone to explain to me how in the world Casey could only be found guilty of Aggravated Murder of a Child? How in the world, with all the evidence that there is against her, can they prove that Caylee's death was simply because of neglect on Casey's part?

Where does the duct tape come in? Will a jury just some how think that Casey didn't intentionally put the duct tape around Caylee's face? That she didn't think that it would cause Caylee's death?

What about Casey's own statements? Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee and that is the last time she seen Caylee? That she has no idea where Caylee is? That there was no accident?

What about the computer searches, that imo, show premeditation on Casey's part? Not just with the murder of Caylee, but what is in my opinion, to also kill her parents? What about her completely erasing Caylee from her life (internet life, but life none the less).

What about Casey's behavior during not only the "31 days", but her behavior since July 15th, 2008? She has not shown one ounce of remorse, even if she did not intentionally kill Caylee. "All they care about is Caylee. They just want Caylee back" were her own words!! She laughed, viciously if you ask me, when she seen her own mother crying and in unspeakable pain (jail house visit) and asks "Why's she crying?" Oh, Casey, I don't know? Maybe because she knows her precious granddaughter is missing? Maybe because she is begging you for answers... any answers that would lead her to Caylee? I could go on and on and on... about Casey's behavior.

I personally think the State has ample evidence that suggests, without a doubt, that Caylee was not only murdered intentionally, but that it was planned in advance.

The defense is going to have to tell a jury that Casey is responsible for Caylee's death if they want to get an Aggravated Murder charge, right? You would think? If they are not going to admit that Casey killed Caylee, by some horrible accident (neglect, etc...) and continue to try and prove someone else killed Caylee... would this play in a jury's decision to convict her of First Degree Murder?

HELP me understand this? I just don't understand how a jury can find Casey only guilty of manslaughter and she gets only 30 years?

If I'm not mistaken, (I haven't read the entire thread) Can't she be found guilty on ALL charges?

 

[Tulessa]

No child is dead until a doctor says so. KC has no medical degree. No excuse to not call 911. KC had no problems with calling them when she was in no immediate danger only a threat by protestors who were standing on the sidewalk in front of her home while she was out on bail. Somehow she managed to do that on her own because she thought her life was in danger. With mother's it is usually the other way around. You dismiss what you might feel is dangerous for you but do not hesitate when your child is in danger. jmo

LC, that has to be the post of the week!! Thank you!

 

[Marina2]

If I'm not mistaken, (I haven't read the entire thread) Can't she be found guilty on ALL charges?

She can't be found guilty of first degree murder and manslaughter.

 

[allycat1208]

When you think about it KC was fully responsible for her child. She lied to LE about where her child was and no one would know but KC where her child was and who she left Caylee with. So if DT tries to say the body was put there AFTER KC was in jail how does that make KC any less responsible for the death of her child. There was no reason not to tell LE if she placed the child in someone else's hands. Either way she caused the death of her child. She can't prove otherwise.

As far as her parents, they are on video and their fear is genuine unlike their happy-go-lucky daughter, I'm so glad to be rid of that responsibilty (Bella Vita) KC. The reactions between CA on the 911 call and GA in his interviews with the FBI and LE are very different. GA claims KC sometimes talks in code, some truth to her stories based on lies. Telling her father that Caylee was "close to home" will have an impact on the jury I am sure. Makes you wonder how much DT knew because after that visit all visits with her parents were cut off.

In the final analysis, KC and KC alone was responsible for her child and there is no way she can get around that. Blaming someone else will just make it harder on her when it comes time for the jury to decide. Most people do not like to see someone "bear false witness" against another person because they could be that person themselves. jmo

I don't recall GA saying that KC ever talked in code (not that you are wrong), but I recall LA being asked by a lawyer for Zenaida Gonzales, if KC had a history of speaking in riddles. LA stated in some strange way that this was true. I remember this because I thought that was funny as hell. I guess this talking in code explains why they cannot get a firm answer as to where Caylee was....KC only suggest things. This got even more funny for me, because then CA was thinking Zenaida is really Amy or someone else they possibly knew.

 

[Amil]

If you read the bios on each prosecutor you will see they specialize in child abuse cases; Frank George, Linda D.B. and JA. The team of LDB and JA have won 27 of 30 cases. Keep the faith.

 

[Solace]

I don't recall GA saying that KC ever talked in code (not that you are wrong), but I recall LA being asked by a lawyer for Zenaida Gonzales, if KC had a history of speaking in riddles. LA stated in some strange way that this was true. I remember this because I thought that was funny as hell. I guess this talking in code explains why they cannot get a firm answer as to where Caylee was....KC only suggest things. This got even more funny for me, because then CA was thinking Zenaida is really Amy or someone else they possibly knew.

IMO, that was just another lie by Lee to try and take the blame off KC - although I still sit in wonder at the audacity of the family to try and make this wash. I think everyone after listening to most everything the family said just sort of stared at the tv in disbelief that they would even try these excuses.

I watched an old NG episode on Youtube (actually someone put it together) and they point out how Cindy lies and NG keeps pursuing saying but "why don't you release them (meaning telephone records of the phantom caller who had Caylee), and Cindy ignores, and NG pursues and finally Cindy says "Yeah, well you know, we're lookin into that".

It is just bizarre.

 

[shgrbkr]

KC adamantly professed that first of all, the invisinanny took Caylee, and the lengths to which she went to keep up that charade with her parents and friends, not to mention LE--this went on for months before team KC sort of just let it die off. Then there was the "script" and RK...and THEN there was duct tape. I certainly can accept that team KC may try to convince everyone there was some sort of an accident, but when one considers the entire package, I just don't see a lesser charge coming into play. Even though there is no eyewitness, there have been plenty of murder-one convictions in this country with circumstantial evidence along with a bit of forensics as the glue that holds it all together. IMO, KC gets the full murder-one conviction.

 

[21merc7]

KC adamantly professed that first of all, the invisinanny took Caylee, and the lengths to which she went to keep up that charade with her parents and friends, not to mention LE--this went on for months before team KC sort of just let it die off. Then there was the "script" and RK...and THEN there was duct tape. I certainly can accept that team KC may try to convince everyone there was some sort of an accident, but when one considers the entire package, I just don't see a lesser charge coming into play. Even though there is no eyewitness, there have been plenty of murder-one convictions in this country with circumstantial evidence along with a bit of forensics as the glue that holds it all together. IMO, KC gets the full murder-one conviction.

KC also kept telling the Anthonys that Caylee is close.

 

[allycat1208]

IMO, that was just another lie by Lee to try and take the blame off KC - although I still sit in wonder at the audacity of the family to try and make this wash. I think everyone after listening to most everything the family said just sort of stared at the tv in disbelief that they would even try these excuses.

I watched an old NG episode on Youtube (actually someone put it together) and they point out how Cindy lies and NG keeps pursuing saying but "why don't you release them (meaning telephone records of the phantom caller who had Caylee), and Cindy ignores, and NG pursues and finally Cindy says "Yeah, well you know, we're lookin into that".

It is just bizarre.

I read that GA even states something like: "I'm tired of all the lies." I think this was in the transcript of his friend, Crystal Holloway. It sounds like there were so many lies you could not remember them all anymore.

If it were not for the poor Caylee dying, some of this could be in a good satire.

 

[allycat1208]

KC also kept telling the Anthonys that Caylee is close.

Its ironic that this was actually true. I started thinking that whatever KC actually said, I would believe the exact opposite.

 

[Marina2]

Its ironic that this was actually true. I started thinking that whatever KC actually said, I would believe the exact opposite.

The jury will probably feel the same way after they hear all her lies. If she gets on the stand and gives a reasonable explanation to all the evidence against her will the jury believe it? How credible will they find any story she gives even if it was the truth?

 

[GutFeeling!]

The jury will probably feel the same way after they hear all her lies. If she gets on the stand and gives a reasonable explanation to all the evidence against her will the jury believe it? How credible will they find any story she gives even if it was the truth?

Problem with that is we have had three years to see this over and over again ... these people are (supposedly) new to the case, and it has been driven into them that she is innocent, until proven guilty. They will be keeping that in the back of their mind ... I don't think the average Joe can fathom a person lying so much - it is just not the world most of us live in.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

The jury will probably feel the same way after they hear all her lies. If she gets on the stand and gives a reasonable explanation to all the evidence against her will the jury believe it? How credible will they find any story she gives even if it was the truth?

ITA. I can't imagine what it could be, but suppose JB comes up with something that explains everything and makes some sort of sense, suppose there is some legitimate reason for what happened...NOT saying this is possible....who would ever believe it? Even if ICA took the stand and gave a reasonable explination...who would ever, ever believe it??? And even if you did kinda sorta believe it...considering her complete lack of remorse or any indication that she is the least bit sad that her beautiful daughter is dead, would it even matter?

 

[Marina2]

Problem with that is we have had three years to see this over and over again ... these people are (supposedly) new to the case, and it has been driven into them that she is innocent, until proven guilty. They will be keeping that in the back of their mind ... I don't think the average Joe can fathom a person lying so much - it is just not the world most of us live in.

The prosecution will expose all her lies through statements she made and witness testimony. The lies will be irrefutable by the DT. In the end, they won't be new to the case and will know just how credible anything she says is. I agree though, it's hard to fathom it if you didn't see it with your own eyes.

 

[angeldust]

Can I ask who actually BELIEVES the pool ladder story cos I dont for one split second

 

[allycat1208]

Problem with that is we have had three years to see this over and over again ... these people are (supposedly) new to the case, and it has been driven into them that she is innocent, until proven guilty. They will be keeping that in the back of their mind ... I don't think the average Joe can fathom a person lying so much - it is just not the world most of us live in.

I really cannot match all of the potential jurors words with who was picked now, but I would think if they picked the jurors who knew nothing or next to nothing she has the best chance of really being presumed innocent. Its just that once all her lies are refuted by witnesses, all the jurors will have changed their minds really fast. Her only chance or hope is if one juror is not at very judgemental (is the woman who "does not like to judge" on the jury?...I doubt it.) or that the jurors do not understand the forensic evidence, which is kind of complicated when coming from the experts....especially Dr. Vaas.

 

[gamom]

Problem with that is we have had three years to see this over and over again ... these people are (supposedly) new to the case, and it has been driven into them that she is innocent, until proven guilty. They will be keeping that in the back of their mind ... I don't think the average Joe can fathom a person lying so much - it is just not the world most of us live in.

They may not have read every document for 3 years, but many of them heard about this case when it first happend in 2008. A few of them even said they want to be on the jury to "find out the truth" They will be shocked to see that in 3 years, the truth still has not come out. As Judge Strickland said, "the truth and Mrs. Anthony are strangers".

 

[shgrbkr]

Lesser charge? I think not. KC was adamant months into this thing that the invisinanny took Caylee. After Caylee's remains were discovered, there has been a multitude of "ideas" put forward from team KC trying to throw the focus elsewhere. Now team KC is "suggesting" that KC suffers from some kind of abuse, and may possibly indicate George, Cindy, Lee....who knows?!!

This was no accident. 31 days+Lies+Duct Tape=Murder One.