Do you think the other side of Cindy is worse than we think?

[Firefly]

In response to what I bolded.

No.

The insane nut (he actually had a crazy look) who climbed all over furniture, swore at the teachers and smoked in kindergarten is now a multimillionaire and an elected state representative.

Really.

ohh, great story, Jolynna!! Wow. Kind of makes you go hmmm.:waitasec:

 

[Jolynna]

Some actually do outgrow their problems.

Maybe Cindy was hoping Casey was going through a *phase*?

 

[suzet]

Cindy is a classic co-dependent, IMO, she has created her own reality with her daughter and her husband. I imagine she made them feel guilty at one moment for not working and then the next tried to make sure they depended on her. That is her "power" You can't do your "dance" alone. The dance of co-dependency takes two.

*respectfully snipped

To be honest, I don't think Cindy enjoyed everyone elses dependency on her. I think she would have been thrilled beyond words if her husband and daughter worked, contributing to the household, so she didn't have the weight of the whole dang thing on her shoulders.

 

[Jolynna]

ohh, great story, Jolynna!! Wow. Kind of makes you go hmmm.:waitasec:

I know. I was SOOOOO sure he would come to a bad end. :waitasec:

I think he was a creative type that was bored with school and marching to a different drummer.

Almost all behavior problems in gradeschool nowdays seems to be labeled ADD or ADHD. I've read that people like this sometimes are diagnosed with other disorders when they are older. Sometimes, like with the person I was talking about, what seems like bad behavior in kindergarten might be the reflection of a creative and lively mind.

 

[static]

Maybe she was desperate to find Casey and Caylee and trying to get Casey's friends to tell her where they were? Maybe she thought she needed to let the friends know the situation was not a joke. If Cindy told her therapist about Casey's stealing and lying the therapisit probably DID say Casey sounded like a sociopath. I also imagine Cindy was sick with worry and mad beyond belief.

How was she going to get Family Services to check on Caylee if she didn't have an address to where she was? Cindy didn't even know what town they were in to know the right authorities to call. She thought Casey and Caylee were in Jacksonville.

Casey LEGALLY had the right to take Caylee anywhere she wanted to take her and NOT tell Cindy where she was. Officially, she and Caylee were NOT missing. Casey was calling. IF Casey had been telling the truth and Caylee HAD been with a babysitter bringing in authorities might cause Casey to cease even CALLING...ever again.

IMO

Agreed,
Cindy let Casey live in her house, even though Casey should have been adult enough to get her own place and surely she could have gotten assistance being a single mother with NO JOB. I think she took advantage of the fact that she had a roof over her head, food in the fridge, and good ole grandma to babysit. She took advantage of Cindy's love for Caylee and used it against her. Casey should have been on her knees thanking GOD that her mom let her and Caylee stay at the house. Of course that would have meant she had to admit she depended on Cindy and George to provide for her. If Cindy had some rules that Casey needed to go by if she provided the roof over her head, so what? She wasn't asking Casey to donate her kidneys ! And I would be furious too if here I was, letting my adult daughter live with me, providing for her, and then find out she was stealing from me, my father and everyone in between! I do not think Cindy had any problem with Caylee being there at all, but, she wanted Casey to grow up and take responsibility. And if Casey didn't like it she should have definitely worked harder to figure out a solution(applying for section 8, etc...) but that would have been TOO MUCH work. All families have their issues...but again like stated before in posts. Cindy did not kill anyone.

 

[Short_Stuff]

I think CA and GA let KC get away with everything and had NO control. KC controls them IMHO. You can tell by the jail videos! Thats why KC thinks she can get away with everything, even murder.

 

[Jolynna]

I think CA and GA let KC get away with everything and had NO control. KC controls them IMHO. You can tell by the jail videos! Thats why KC thinks she can get away with everything, even murder.

Have you ever lived with a sociopath?

You can catch them with your wallet in their thieving hands and when they SWEAR on their mother's grave that they aren't holding any wallet they are SO convincing you would doubt your own eyes.

I can't tell you how many times I literally caught my cheating ex-husband with his pants down and when he told me I was the one who was crazy...I bought it.

When Caylee was missing, Casey held the cards. If George or Cindy said ANYTHING she didn't like, Casey wouldn't talk to them. Those jailhouse talks with Casey's parents were ALL Baez was allowing with anyone. I don't think LE or the FBI were encouraging George and Cindy to say ANYTHING that would shut off even that wee bit of info.

I think the CEO story to Casey was probably suggested to George and Cindy by someone else as a way to feed Casey's ego and maybe get her talking...

JMO

 

[Openmyeyes]

Unfortunately, since none of us really know CA or KC or the family personally, we can only go by how they chose to present themselves on camera, or by what we have seen of them on video tapes. Granted, the circumstances are horrendous, but we also have
past cases that are similar and that we have learned things from. Sharon R and Ron G,
the Van Dams, and Mark Klaas are a few that come to mind, that remained dignified throughout their ordeal. Granted none of them had to deal with the fact that their own
child was the murderer, so it was much more tricky for the A's. When they first got the car back they should have contacted LE (in their jurisdiction) since both of them believed that the car smelled like a dead body, a real dead body, not a figure of speech and let it continue from there.

I've been the one harping on the fact that I can't understand how CA let KC take Caylee the night of the fight. CA had been adamant that Caylee was alive, until the actual proof came out. CA was defensive with police, attacked anyone that even hinted at the idea that KC killed Caylee, and believes to this day that KC is innocent. Tell me this woman would let her beloved granddaughter go off somewhere with someone that she just found out stole money from her ill father. I can see her telling KC to get lost, leave them alone, go do what she has to do, (and probably not in those nice terms), but I just don't see her allowing KC (the sociopath) leave with Caylee. Legal or not. CA has proven that she will take on anyone to get what she believes to be true; a precious granddaughter outweighs them all.

 

[LLH]

No, I dont think Cindy is worse than Casey. Cindy worked her butt off to have a nice home for her family. She didnt kill her children. She was willing to take her granddaughter...and obviously cherished Caylee, no matter what her reasons were.

I believe she has gone through a mental breakdown of some kind because of this horrible event. In the midst of the anguish she has lost perspective, or possibly just found that it came down to a matter of survival. She was aparently at the brink of breaking when this whole thing transpired. Without being inside her head, none of us can truely know what she is thinking, or what her motives are.
From watching her public appearances and the jailhouse videos, you can see her anguish and also her anger, which seems misplaced. We all know that Casey saw the first cameos and was spiteful in her comments to Cindy. At the time , I wondered if Cindys odd behavior was a ruse, to get information out of Casey. The pampering was nauseating to watch, but pehaps it was a means to an end. Watching her peer into Caseys face, it looked to me like she would choke her if she could get her hands on her.. but maybe this is just my way to accept such weird reactions.

Sociopathic people do not and will not tell the truth. No matter what you do or say. If Cindy knew this about Casey, it would account for her hopelessness. I believe Cindy and George knew Caylee was deceased early on in the case- therefore no pleas to a kidnapper to return Caylee. Its an awful truth to have to accept. Thinking your own child harmed or killed your grandchild - wow. Im not sure my mind would stay in tact in such circumstances, but Im positive I wouldnt lie to LE. I dont think the Anthonys will ever accept this, even if Casey is convicted. Sad.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Agreed,
Cindy let Casey live in her house, even though Casey should have been adult enough to get her own place and surely she could have gotten assistance being a single mother with NO JOB. I think she took advantage of the fact that she had a roof over her head, food in the fridge, and good ole grandma to babysit. She took advantage of Cindy's love for Caylee and used it against her. Casey should have been on her knees thanking GOD that her mom let her and Caylee stay at the house. Of course that would have meant she had to admit she depended on Cindy and George to provide for her. If Cindy had some rules that Casey needed to go by if she provided the roof over her head, so what? She wasn't asking Casey to donate her kidneys ! And I would be furious too if here I was, letting my adult daughter live with me, providing for her, and then find out she was stealing from me, my father and everyone in between! I do not think Cindy had any problem with Caylee being there at all, but, she wanted Casey to grow up and take responsibility. And if Casey didn't like it she should have definitely worked harder to figure out a solution(applying for section 8, etc...) but that would have been TOO MUCH work. All families have their issues...but again like stated before in posts. Cindy did not kill anyone.

ITA :clap::clap::clap:

 

[mikeysmommom]

No, I dont think Cindy is worse than Casey. Cindy worked her butt off to have a nice home for her family. She didnt kill her children. She was willing to take her granddaughter...and obviously cherished Caylee, no matter what her reasons were.

I believe she has gone through a mental breakdown of some kind because of this horrible event. In the midst of the anguish she has lost perspective, or possibly just found that it came down to a matter of survival. She was aparently at the brink of breaking when this whole thing transpired. Without being inside her head, none of us can truely know what she is thinking, or what her motives are.
From watching her public appearances and the jailhouse videos, you can see her anguish and also her anger, which seems misplaced. We all know that Casey saw the first cameos and was spiteful in her comments to Cindy. At the time , I wondered if Cindys odd behavior was a ruse, to get information out of Casey. The pampering was nauseating to watch, but pehaps it was a means to an end. Watching her peer into Caseys face, it looked to me like she would choke her if she could get her hands on her.. but maybe this is just my way to accept such weird reactions.

Sociopathic people do not and will not tell the truth. No matter what you do or say. If Cindy knew this about Casey, it would account for her hopelessness. I believe Cindy and George knew Caylee was deceased early on in the case- therefore no pleas to a kidnapper to return Caylee. Its an awful truth to have to accept. Thinking your own child harmed or killed your grandchild - wow. Im not sure my mind would stay in tact in such circumstances, but Im positive I wouldnt lie to LE. I dont think the Anthonys will ever accept this, even if Casey is convicted. Sad.

I agree with alot of your post up to the part where you think George and Cindy knew Caylee was deceased. IMO they did not know till they were told that it was Caylees body that was found.IMO there was nothing Cindy could have done to save Caylee . And ITA that if Cindy could get her hands around Caseys neck she would .

 

[Thinaire]

IMO...the Cindy that we see in the jail house tapes...is not the real Cindy.

Must not forget that the Anthony's went into those visits, knowing they would be recorded. In that last one released, it sure seemed as it was preplanned/scripted...with perhaps a detective standing off camera.

I recall the house media tapes where Cindy is closing in on one of the protesters...very close...in her face...stating that she Cindy was nurse and they person should be careful of their blood pressure, etc, etc...like a snake in my eyes ready to strike...

I think that..is Cindy...yes she flares, has a temper...but she wears you down, gets in your face and flips the focus away from herself much like a sociopath does...

A few days out of the medias eyes won't make me forget her nasty dig on LKL about Nancy Grace...the obvious pleasure she had in getting those remarks in...

All the lies, the outlandish behavior, the continued lies, money chasing...just keeps my eyes open.

 

[Jolynna]

I agree with alot of your post up to the part where you think George and Cindy knew Caylee was deceased. IMO they did not know till they were told that it was Caylees body that was found.IMO there was nothing Cindy could have done to save Caylee . And ITA that if Cindy could get her hands around Caseys neck she would .

I agree with the part I bolded too.

Although Casey is their daughter and I do not think either George or Cindy want her put to death or tormented in prison, I think their feelings toward Casey are VERY confused.

I also agree with the poster who said Cindy has suffered a breakdown. I have thought that from the beginning.

She's gone and on autopilot. I don't know what will happen to her when the trial is over and she loses her "us against them" cause.

JMO

 

[LLH]

I agree Jolynna~ when the whole thing is over with, Cindy will be stuck with her memories and what if's-and I dont think they will ever diminish.

 

[2goldfish]

I've been the one harping on the fact that I can't understand how CA let KC take Caylee the night of the fight.

snipped.

with all respect, what exactly was cindy going to do to stop her 22 year old daughter from leaving with her own child? calling the cops even would have got her absolutely nowhere.

 

[Bev]

There's no evidence that there was a fight on the 15th and KC left with Caylee. There is evidence that KC was at the house making phone calls late in the evening and in the morning and George said in his police statement that he saw them both about 1PM. If he was trying to cover up a fight between CA and KC the night before it would have been easier to say she went out the night of the 15th and took Caylee with her.

 

[Shutterfly]

snipped.

with all respect, what exactly was cindy going to do to stop her 22 year old daughter from leaving with her own child? calling the cops even would have got her absolutely nowhere.

You are 100% correct. When my then 17 year old stepdaughter left home in the middle of the night with her three month old son..no money, 22 degrees outside, nowhere to go(because she was pee'd off that we wouldn't allow her to run the streets at all hours with the child) we called the police. They did absolutely nothing. It took three months, a missing persons report, several calls to CPS, and ultimately I spent three weeks wandering in and out of crack houses three states away to find what was a half dead child by that point. But anyway.....
Here's my problem with CA and it's one I've developed just recently(been working on it for months), after seeing the jail video of August 14th. I watched it the first time and watched KC. Then I watched it again and watched CA. Then I went back and watched everything we have on video of CA. For me, CA is a bit of an enigma. She comes off initially as though she has it all together, as if she is in control, as if she has all the answers. CA "was" the rock in that family.
But the videos go on. I see a 50 year old woman sitting in an interrogation room. She makes a fuss and giggles about the crumbs she left on the table from the "treats" the officer gave her. She fidgets, she plays with her hair, she plays with her shoes, she alternates sitting first on one foot, then on the other. And above all, I see a woman who, as long as she is being agreed with and coddled, acts immature, sweet, and childlike in her eagerness to help. Watch CA in the 8-14 video. She clearly cannot stand to be left sitting there while GA speaks to KC and she is 'left out" She shakes her head violently and pulls her hair. She gets up. She lays her head on the desk. She is saying "pay attention to ME" just like KC does.
CA works hard at making herself appear superior, as if she's "in the loop" and you're not. She's got it all figured out, you don't, so you would be well served to listen to her talk. I don't see this as typical behavior for a 50 year old, mature woman. She will go on and on and on and say absolutely nothing, she just keeps talking. This is how she is accustomed to dominating the conversation and controlling the situation IMO. KC says in the 8-14 video that CA never lets her talk. In videos we see GA sit quietly while CA talks. She cues him when he is "allowed' to speak.
I don't think a typical 50 year old woman needs to hide behind a hammer to feel heard and I don't believe she thinks her husband is so incapable that he is unable to defend himself. She came out of that house over and over again for the most mundane of reasons, knowing full well it would lead to confrontation. Control. It's all about control, and if you think for one minute that CA is not equally as capable of trying to control and manipulate people as is her daughter, I think you are mistaken. CA is the bread winner. That house is spotless. She chose a profession in which she "fixes" people for a living.
I believe whole heartedly that KC was a model child and I believe this because I have no doubt that CA controlled every aspect of her life. That would explain why KC seems so petrified of her mother....and well....her father seems petrified of her mother as well.
The change? KC grew up. She had a child of her own...someone that SHE could control and a way she found that SHE could control and manipulate CA. Once she got a taste for that control her mother had over her all of her life, it spelled conflict that turned catastrophic.
Do I think the "other side" of CA is worse than we think? I think you have to look back to the person forming the opinion and THEIR upbringing to understand how each of us comes to our conclusion. Is she "worse" than we think? Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just a matter of perception?
Like it or not CA is a product of HER environment growing up. We all know that unless the cycle is broken then history will repeat itself. We have all heard one million times that children learn what they live, and if you look very closely, beyond what comes out of their mouths, you can see a staggering amount of CA in KC.
Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I see what I want to see because my perception comes from someone who was raised with control freaks, alcoholics, at least two sociopathic narsissists (sp?), master manipulators and codependence. I don't think that CA is "worse" but I think what we've seen only scratches the surface. But I've seen enough to believe that KC IS a product of her environment and I really do believe that who she is and what she's done is the direct result of how she was raised.
I don't believe that CA is a "bad" person. I just think that for whatever reason, early on, CA went at life from the perspective that who and what she "fixed" around her defined her worth as a human being. Codependency and control issues destroy lives.
CA is a beautiful woman. She's obviously smart, educated, and she has taken care of her entire family, seemingly singlehandedly, for 20+ years. It's a shame, IMO, that she kept reaching for her self-worth in places that she would never truly find it.
Come on now, don't throw nuthin at me, k? I'm not defending her...I don't think....and I'm not excusing any of it or condoning her actions or her parenting skills. I guarantee you they aren't worse than my family and none of us kids ever wound up, well, you know..."gone?" But had my Dad done to me what we fear KC has done to Caylee, my own Grandmother would have defended him to her death bed. My Dad is KC....56 years old...still supported by Mom and Dad. Everyone owes him something. He is smarter, better, and superior to all of us. Everything is someone else's fault. He can do anything he pleases and there are no consequences. He has everyone at Nags Head convinced that he is a retired millionaire. And who do you suppose made HIM that way? The same two people, now 76 and 81, who are STILL supporting him to this day. Get it?
I'm gonna go take another round of Midol now....sorry.

 

[Jolynna]

You are 100% correct. When my then 17 year old stepdaughter left home in the middle of the night with her three month old son..no money, 22 degrees outside, nowhere to go(because she was pee'd off that we wouldn't allow her to run the streets at all hours with the child) we called the police. They did absolutely nothing. It took three months, a missing persons report, several calls to CPS, and ultimately I spent three weeks wandering in and out of crack houses three states away to find what was a half dead child by that point. But anyway.....
Here's my problem with CA and it's one I've developed just recently(been working on it for months), after seeing the jail video of August 14th. I watched it the first time and watched KC. Then I watched it again and watched CA. Then I went back and watched everything we have on video of CA. For me, CA is a bit of an enigma. She comes off initially as though she has it all together, as if she is in control, as if she has all the answers. CA "was" the rock in that family.
But the videos go on. I see a 50 year old woman sitting in an interrogation room. She makes a fuss and giggles about the crumbs she left on the table from the "treats" the officer gave her. She fidgets, she plays with her hair, she plays with her shoes, she alternates sitting first on one foot, then on the other. And above all, I see a woman who, as long as she is being agreed with and coddled, acts immature, sweet, and childlike in her eagerness to help. Watch CA in the 8-14 video. She clearly cannot stand to be left sitting there while GA speaks to KC and she is 'left out" She shakes her head violently and pulls her hair. She gets up. She lays her head on the desk. She is saying "pay attention to ME" just like KC does.
CA works hard at making herself appear superior, as if she's "in the loop" and you're not. She's got it all figured out, you don't, so you would be well served to listen to her talk. I don't see this as typical behavior for a 50 year old, mature woman. She will go on and on and on and say absolutely nothing, she just keeps talking. This is how she is accustomed to dominating the conversation and controlling the situation IMO. KC says in the 8-14 video that CA never lets her talk. In videos we see GA sit quietly while CA talks. She cues him when he is "allowed' to speak.
I don't think a typical 50 year old woman needs to hide behind a hammer to feel heard and I don't believe she thinks her husband is so incapable that he is unable to defend himself. She came out of that house over and over again for the most mundane of reasons, knowing full well it would lead to confrontation. Control. It's all about control, and if you think for one minute that CA is not equally as capable of trying to control and manipulate people as is her daughter, I think you are mistaken. CA is the bread winner. That house is spotless. She chose a profession in which she "fixes" people for a living.
I believe whole heartedly that KC was a model child and I believe this because I have no doubt that CA controlled every aspect of her life. That would explain why KC seems so petrified of her mother....and well....her father seems petrified of her mother as well.
The change? KC grew up. She had a child of her own...someone that SHE could control and a way she found that SHE could control and manipulate CA. Once she got a taste for that control her mother had over her all of her life, it spelled conflict that turned catastrophic.
Do I think the "other side" of CA is worse than we think? I think you have to look back to the person forming the opinion and THEIR upbringing to understand how each of us comes to our conclusion. Is she "worse" than we think? Perhaps. Or perhaps it's just a matter of perception?
Like it or not CA is a product of HER environment growing up. We all know that unless the cycle is broken then history will repeat itself. We have all heard one million times that children learn what they live, and if you look very closely, beyond what comes out of their mouths, you can see a staggering amount of CA in KC.
Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I see what I want to see because my perception comes from someone who was raised with control freaks, alcoholics, at least two sociopathic narsissists (sp?), master manipulators and codependence. I don't think that CA is "worse" but I think what we've seen only scratches the surface. But I've seen enough to believe that KC IS a product of her environment and I really do believe that who she is and what she's done is the direct result of how she was raised.
I don't believe that CA is a "bad" person. I just think that for whatever reason, early on, CA went at life from the perspective that who and what she "fixed" around her defined her worth as a human being. Codependency and control issues destroy lives.
CA is a beautiful woman. She's obviously smart, educated, and she has taken care of her entire family, seemingly singlehandedly, for 20+ years. It's a shame, IMO, that she kept reaching for her self-worth in places that she would never truly find it.
Come on now, don't throw nuthin at me, k? I'm not defending her...I don't think....and I'm not excusing any of it or condoning her actions or her parenting skills. I guarantee you they aren't worse than my family and none of us kids ever wound up, well, you know..."gone?" But had my Dad done to me what we fear KC has done to Caylee, my own Grandmother would have defended him to her death bed. My Dad is KC....56 years old...still supported by Mom and Dad. Everyone owes him something. He is smarter, better, and superior to all of us. Everything is someone else's fault. He can do anything he pleases and there are no consequences. He has everyone at Nags Head convinced that he is a retired millionaire. And who do you suppose made HIM that way? The same two people, now 76 and 81, who are STILL supporting him to this day. Get it?
I'm gonna go take another round of Midol now....sorry.

Unfortunately Caylee didn't live through even 24 hours of "bonding" time with her mother

On June 15, George was at work. Lee wasn't there. Cindy couldn't physically prevent Casey from taking Caylee and leaving.

Cindy did what every family therapist would recommend when she gave Casey an ultimatum. People with personality disorders need tough love and to hit rock bottom for there to be any chance for them.

As a result Caylee is dead. No amount of woulda, coulda or shoulda can bring Caylee back. Now Casey may face the death penalty or being beaten to death and tormented in prison.

No matter WHAT Casey has done, do you think her parents aren't hurting at the thought of her in pain? Espeically if there is ANY chance Caylee's death might have been an accident? Don't you think over the years the Anthony's hearts have not ached for Casey because her "personality flaws" have ended up losing her friends and causing her problems?

Am I the only parent here whose heart has hurt for my child even when my child fully deserves the pain he himself brought upon himself?

On top of that there are the nightmares of how Caylee died and the wondering about whether or not Caylee was crying and calling for Cindy in her last moments. How does any human live with those thoughts?

I think the Cindy and George are MORE than being punished for their lack of parenting skills.

JMO

 

[Bev]

I like the way Jolynna thinks - a very objective and intelligent (and compassionate) view.

 

[mikeysmommom]

snipped.

with all respect, what exactly was cindy going to do to stop her 22 year old daughter from leaving with her own child? calling the cops even would have got her absolutely nowhere.

You are so right my sis has a granddaughter the mom was selling drugs and leaving her daughter with any guy who would watch her . My sis got the mom to let her keep the baby who was 2 at the time for the summer,my sis went to lawyers did not do her any good.My sis refused to let her have her daughter back when she came to get her.I was at my sisters house when the police arrived , they did not care what the mom was up to.They even had a warrant for the moms arrest,they arrested the mom but because she had the cash to pay to be bailed out she was able to take her daughter. If I did not see this with my own eyes I would never have believed it.On a happy note within about 1 year with my nephews permission (he is the dad)his sister found out the mom was in jail for selling drugs she fought in court for the child and won. She is now raising the child. Unfortunatly my son did not learn from his cousins mistake and hooked up with a psycho. She is alot like Casey and she lived in my home and used my Grandson against me and it was pure hell she has put our family thru. Finaly I could not take it and she had to leave. Hardest decision I have ever had to make. I worry every day about my beautiful little grandson who turned 3 in July. I also did not get to see him for his 3rd birthday.She has kept him from his family for 9 months.She seemed like the perfect mate for my son till she had his child. Then her true self came out.So I can relate to the Anthonys. I pray every day for my grandsons safety.