A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

[CBTampa]

For the longest time I thought that it was an accident that KC was covering up. Now with the evidence of the duct tape it can only lead one to believe it was premediated. What triggered her to do such a thing to a sweet child like Caylee?

One other poster stated that they don't think there is any evidence that there was a fight between CA and KC. Then if not, then what was the trigger? Jealousy, this is a pretty drastic measure to take, not to mention the consequences of that action. That is such a permanent solution. Not to mention all the people that would be hurt by those actions. Maybe it is hard for a lot of us to mentally wrap our heads around because we are as close to normal as you can get. My quess is we may never know, to do so you would have to understand KC mind...I don't think that I can.

If KC is so innocent...why doesn't JB bring all the evidence to light now, bare the state the costs of a lengtly trial and set his client free. Make so sense to me.

 

[DaughterAlice]

PRE-MEDITATED! As some have said, not planned well in advance, maybe only a day or so before.

LP had something right when he said that she lives her life 10 minutes at a time . . . he didn't mean that literally, but I catch his drift. She's not a planner. She planned nothing about her life & her future, but she planned where to go dancing for the evening, or what to wear, or where to shop. She planned her daughter's death too. So much was already in place for her: fake nanny, fake job, etc.

I think she'd already been fantasizing about it, maybe for a long time. Not planning, but imagining her life unencumbered. Then something set her off (the fight w/Cindy? her relationship w/AL? Her need for a social life?) . . . and poor little Caylee was the one blocking her way. Time to clear the path to whatever it was she wanted. Then she started planning, and not long term, because she is incapable of thinking too far into the future.

 

[eddeva]

Bump - thank you mod for letting me know this is already being discussed - it has always bothered me that there were some people who thought that Casey accidentally overdosed her daughter, and I have read through every single document available in this case and absolutely believe that this was premeditated and not some accident that KC tried to cover up.
What I am wondering, however, is what leads others to believe that drugging Caylee was something KC did several times in the past when she wanted to go party.

If this was the case, what made you reach that opinion - what led you to believe that she simply used to much this particular time? Did you read something somewhere that led you to conclude this?

I just believe that Caylee would have exhibited some type of fear if she were drugged and left in a trunk or something in the past - I read several times that Caylee displayed separation anxiety and that she loved her mother and always wanted to be with her. Even at her young age, I would think she would fear her mother or display fear in some way. Any thoughts?

*my bold.
i see your point seebra. i particularly remember reports that caylee had seperation anxiety b/c my little girl was the same (maybe worse) at that age age too. but would a 2yr old child even know she was being drugged by her mother? she might be aware that she felt odd on a semi-regular basis, or perhaps b/c it was all she knew she thought it was normal, but i don't know that she'd connect it w/ casey either way.
i do take some comfort in knowing she wanted to be close to her mother - it gives me hope that maybe she didn't suffer from any possible rages or other deviant behaviours that casey may have.
please don't be bothered by other peoples opinions, we all have opinions that differ in some way or other, whether you think it murder or not, but thank gawd we have the right to those opinions and a place to talk about them w/o fear of personal attacks.

ETA i believe there was some level of premeditation involved, be it 3 months or 3 seconds.

 

[Tricia]

My 2 cents.

I use to think it was an accident but after re-reading some things I have changed my mind for two reasons:

1-Zanny

2-Caylee was learning to talk and to comprehend what was going on around her.


How long had Casey been using "Zanny" to explain away Caylee's absence?

Every time Caylee was at "Zanny's" if she wasn't with her family or friends then Casey had her drugged. In my opinion.

The way Casey's mind works is anyone's guess but can't you see her thinking along these lines:

"Ok I'll keep using Zanny to explain where Caylee is and when she gets older and can talk about it........"

Would it surprise anyone here to think that Casey had in the back of her mind, from the first time she did the Zanny/drug thing, that she could murder Caylee to shut her up if need be?

It wouldn't surprise me at all.

We all know that whenever George or Cindy mention "Zanny" Caylee NEVER responded. She was getting close to the point where she could ask George and Cindy who they were talking about.

Casey couldn't have that.

Like Scott Peterson before her, It was Caylee or Casey. "Caylee or Me" was her thinking. Casey had to survive so Caylee lost out.

When Casey put Caylee in her drugged induced naps I wonder if she ever told Caylee that it was their secret. That every time mommy put her to "nap" she woke up and got something. Just to keep her quiet.

OR, maybe she didn't say a word and because it seemed like a normal routine nothing came out of Caylee's mouth.

But, it was only a matter of time.

A matter of time before the people in Casey's world knew there was no Zanny, knew that she put Caylee to "sleep" and went out to party.

Casey couldn't have that. So, it was an easy choice for her. Caylee had to go so Casey could survive.

And the night she got into the fight with her mom??? Well, she accomplished two things at once. She took something near and dear to her mother's heart away to hurt her out of spite and she made sure no one would ever know there was no "Zanny."

My opinion as always.

 

[kiwibird]

I have a theory tht I keep coming back too...when I was first aware of this case I searched murders and deaths that were "current" at the time of Caylees disappearance, there is a case which from memory was in Florida also of a girl who was jailed for several years as she was babysitting and the child/children she was supposed to be looking after had drowned in a pond near the house cause she was so hung over from partying all night the night before that she fell asleep, I will go after this post and locate the proper article about this. I had held the theory (I have held many and refuse to make a final judgement at this stage) that Casey had heard about this and after panicking had then decided to make the accident look like a kidnapping. I don't believe she drugged her, I don't believe that the duct tape was put on a live Caylee, someone that doesn't give a toss does not leave a childs favorite blanket and a heart sticker etc with them. I think her silence now is due to lawyers advice because of the direction the so called "Sunshine Law" has led things bu document disclosure which has led to crazed public opinion about "evidence"....my opinion will change again and will not settle till a "smoking gun" is produced or some cold hard evidence....

 

[Seebra]

I wish this poll was still open - I thought at first maybe something happened accidentally and KC was trying to cover it up.

Since then, with all that has been released, including her actions afterward, I totally believe she did this intentionally and purposely.

And I hope she rots for eternity.

 

[Lexington]

Without a doubt, premeditated. Did KC accidentally place the duct tape across Caylee's mouth?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I know someone whose child drowned at home many years ago...my aunt's neighbor's lost a child in a home accident where the child was electrocuted....there was a story on our local news a few years ago where a little boy accidently hung himself jumping off of his bed trying to fly like superman, when his cape caught on something...Christian artist Steven Curits Chapman's daughter was run over and killed in her own driveway just months ago....i'm not trying to be morbid, but these types of things happen, and not infrequently. But I don't know if I've EVER in all my life heard of parents covering up an accidental death, even one due to their own negligence. In those cases, the immediate reaction is to call 911, to render some type of aid...if it was TRULY an accident, her attorney would have had her come out with the story along time ago...guilty of negligence and obstruction vs. guilty of murder...

That would be my thought if I knew NOTHING else about this case. The fact that she wasn't sad in the least, as evidenced by every single person she saw in those 31 days is more convincing.

The fact that she LIES to EVERYONE is more convincing.

So to me it's murder. But is it premeditated, or just a fit of anger that ended in terrible tragedy?

If she smothered her, it would have been premeditated. If the hyoid bone was intact, strangulation is unlikely. An angry rage would have likely produced some trauma to the skeleton, yet no signs of trauma are evident. Smothering, drugging, or intentional drowning are the only three theories that seem to make any sense.

According to a UK study, drowning, smothering and suffocation are the three most common methods mothers who kill employ. This struck me because these are all intensely personal, rage-filled methods...Whatever was boiling over in KC's life, Caylee bore the brunt of it...KC took her frustration at being such a helpless creature out on the only person more helpless than she.

It's beyond premeditation, it's pure evil

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I am not convinced KC is not a psychopath. I am not sure this is the first death, and if not arrested, I don't believe it would have been the last either.

There was a case in London where a brother and sister planned and executed a plan to kill both their parents because of their long standing hate for them both. They killed the youngest child in the family (who was born much later in life than the older kids) just to see the parents suffer first, then they set up an elaborate plan and killed their parents.

This case is very similar in not only the hate in the family, but the evil of the two older siblings. There is much more to this case than meets the eye.

 

[FX Wiz]

So you think when KS was leaving the house on June 16 and she told Dad she was dropping Caylee off at the sitter then going to work, she really meant she was gonna go kill her and go party instead? Not likely.

 

[FX Wiz]

I think... a few short years ago CA & KS were a team. KS could do no wrong. CA would put GA down and KS copied mom & disrespected GA. All of a sudden KS gets pregnant and CA takes over. Then CA starts putting KS down "You don't know how to be a mother. Let me do it." No, it wasn't just one arguement. It was like they say, a love/hate relationship. By the time June 15th rolled around KS absolutely hated her mom and took back & destroyed the "gift" she had given her. hmmmm, or,
Maybe KS told Caylee to shutup many a time when CA was not around. Maybe used tape on her mouth too. Last June I think we broke a record in Central Florida for the most days in a row that the temp reached over 90 degrees, which translates to over 120 F in a car w/rolled up windows. If a child is left in a car in such heat they could die in less than an hour but I'm sure that if the baby can only breath through the nose the body shutdown would happen alot quicker. That day I think she backed into her garage, Caylee still in the carseat, went & borrowed a shovel, couldn't dig a hole (it's not as easy as it looks in the movies), bagged the baby and put her in the trunk, drove off and probably had her short story memorized by the time she got to her next booty call.
Well, it COULD happen you know, lol.

 

[FX Wiz]

 

[shgrbkr]

I always thought it premeditated murder. I mean, this ridiculous JBP vs. Sawgrass apt stories, and if any of that were true, why hasn't she come forward with the entire ball of wax now that Caylee is gone?
Forgive me for beating a long dead horse, but how can Cindy NOT KNOW who is looking after her granddaughter? I can't wait for CA to be deposed by JM and him ask her about this.
ITA with another poster who said KC was prob fantasizing about being free of motherhood for a long time.

 

[FX Wiz]

Oops sorry musta typoed url.

 

[kline]

Im sorry but I dont see how at this point anyone could reasonably think it could have been an accident.
There is a line between abstract presumption of innocence(and thats if you are bound to a jury) benefit of a doubt and flat out denial.

 

[brownflower]

IMO If it was accidental she would have called 911 immediately. Or at least that's what normal people do IMO.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Something came to me today while listening to Lee's depo. Remember how many of us thought that jealousy might be part of KC's motive to kill Caylee? Because KC was jealous that CA loved Caylee more than her? And that probably goes for GA too. And Caylee replaced KC as "baby" of the family. Then we heard JG tell us that KC broke up with him b/c she felt JG loved Caylee more than he loved KC? Ok so in KC's eyes Caylee has userped her position in at least three of the most important people in KC's life, where KC feels cast off and discarded. So then here comes AL, and what does he do? He tells KC that she can come to his apartment and hang out but he doesn't think it a good environment for Caylee. So for the first time in her life since Caylee has come along, here is someone that wants HER minus Caylee. And it is a love interest to boot. His statement to KC that he only wanted boys when he had children probably felt like a sign to someone as sick as KC. Her feelings of not wanting Caylee for the last three years have reached the boiling point==the situation with parents==boiling point. Then she meets this guy who wants her around but not Caylee. I think this is what pushed her from just thinking about killing Caylee to doing the deed. moo

 

[spyhouston]

I just hoped against hope that KC did not plan to kill Caylee. But after all this time, I can't find one single answer to support that. I don't think there was lengthy planning, but I remain convinced that KC did decide to kill little Caylee and came up with all her own reasons why she was justified.

 

[tfrohning]

at first I thought:
#1 Caylee was kidnap in July
#2 Accidental in August thru Dec.
#3 Dec to present Pre meditated. Not to sure that Casey did not planed to murder George and Cindy too.

 

[marla]

Oops sorry musta typoed url.

:laugh: hehehehehehehe Too Funny!