A pregnant man ?

[Nova]

I don't think anything suggests that any party involved is in it for the money or their fifteen minutes.

I know that there is a lot of heartache, soul-searching and loss that goes into deciding to change one's gender, fully or partially. Being lucky enough to be comfortable in my own skin, I have no room to judge another's decision to change the way they were born or how fully to change it. As horrible as it is to be born into the wrong body or believe that you were born into the wrong body, it must be worse to be caught in between. Having the desire to birth a child, while feeling that the rest of the female organs don't belong on your body would be a special kind of hell.

Well, said. And let me add that it's not as if there are a lot of role models for people who find themselves "in the wrong body". We should expect a diverse range of responses to that condition.

 

[Nova]

This person is a biological female, even though he was advertised as a "pregnant man." Nothing is really unusual about female having children. But the supposed "pregnant man" sure attracted a lot of attention.

I agree with jenny that the "problem" here is largely a creation of the media. The person in question transitioned partially (as many choose to do), but not fully. Transgenders often stop short of a full transition because they lack the money or fear the operation (I can't blame them for that!) or they think modern science lacks the capability to fully create a new set of genitalia.

All the "first man to give birth" headlines were nonsense.

 

[jjenny]

I agree with jenny that the "problem" here is largely a creation of the media. The person in question transitioned partially (as many choose to do), but not fully. Transgenders often stop short of a full transition because they lack the money or fear the operation (I can't blame them for that!) or they think modern science lacks the capability to fully create a new set of genitalia.

All the "first man to give birth" headlines were nonsense.

But who contacted the media with this story?

 

[Nova]

You can't change genders and that's a fact. Ergo - there can be no debate about it. There is body modification and that's what this is. Your opinion won't change the facts. :seeya:

Actually, most transgenders would agree with your literal words if not with the spirit of your remark.

They will tell you they are merely modifying their bodies to match the psychological gender they already are. And then they will generally change their legal gender, a change which is and should be recognized by the courts.

Let's don't pretend this one couple is typical.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

IMO it's been a publicity/media attention stunt from the beginning when the media ran with the headlines that the 1st man gave birth.

We all know men can't give birth.

Had this person just went about her business and had her child without doing interviews and basking in the media spotlight, people wouldn't be reacting to the sensationalized story.

JMO

I think we all know from high school biology or sex Ed that men can not now or will they ever be able to give birth.

 

[Ausgirl]

Are these people seriously not allowed to -divorce- because one party gave birth? Crazy, outdated laws.

If they don't wish to be married, they should be granted a legal divorce. The end.

A bit off topic, but I was so sad to hear of Dennis Avner's passing. I followed his story for many years. He was a gentle soul, and a nice person. Not crazy... I know and have know many people with extreme body mods in my time. Among them, qualified (and very sane, thank you) lawyers and successful entertainment professionals. Body mod does not automatically = "insane", whether it applies to gender or otherwise.

This thread is making me sad.

 

[txsvicki]

I guess a penis was constructed? If babies were born afterwards then I'd say a biological woman with a penis gave birth. Not totally bodily transformed into male yet since men don't have a uterus or ovaries. If he was legally a man though, and allowed to legally marry then why no divorce. I just hope all the hormones going back and forth while still having estrogen from ovaries won't be a health issue someday. Sorry to get so personal, but was the monthly cycle suppressed and how will the bleeding after birth escape the body? Women have bleeding even after c sections.

 

[jjenny]

What? The surgery this person had was to remove breasts. The reproductive system was left intact (including ovaries, uterus and the rest). That doesn't make this person "a pregnant man."

 

[Nova]

I'm not an expert, but I believe a person's vagina is inverted to create the new penis. So I doubt he has had the genital surgery, unless he had it after the birth of their second child.

I'm not saying the individuals here didn't participate in the media coverage. Obviously, they did. But from whom do we expect more media knowledge and responsibility, a couple undergoing difficult transitions or PEOPLE magazine?

 

[SwampMama]

I believe the problem is that Beattie is not picking a gender and sticking with it.

Beattie wanted to be a regarded as a man,( but with ovaries and a womb to give birth). Men cannot birth and there was nothing remarkable about this "man" giving birth but it was played for all it was worth. Beattie certainly profited from this and basked in the attention. So Beattie chose the role of a man in this instance.

Now Beattie wants to change gender again to suit the need to get a divorce. I have NO problems with people with gender issues who want to change their gender but i do have a problem with someone flipflopping on what they are and changing what they claim their gender is to profit or gain from it.

Please do not think that I am insensitive because i cannot decide what to call this person when this person cannot even decide who or what they are.

I have no issues with people who change gender and am quite familiar and raised among gays, lesbians, people who had gender identity issues and they feel the same way I do about this.

I am not ridiculing this person, this person is putting them-self up for ridicule by switching genders and bringing attention to them-self constantly. Let us not forget that this person also brought attention to their "marriage" idealizing it in many interviews and then turned around and claimed the marriage was abusive (complete with footage of ugly family domestic situations).

Maybe my point is that I don't want to know all of this about this person and their issues. I am not interested in my own friends sex lives and domestic squabbles and I am certainly not interested in watching this train wreck happen.

There ARE children involved. Perhaps Beattie needs to consider them-self a PARENT first, and consider how this affects the children (and will continue to affect them) instead of demanding so much attention for their own issues.

I say this as a person who was dragged into their own parent's somewhat similar issues and did not appreciate it one bit. I was a child, not a pawn or a prop.

 

[Sonya610]

I'm not an expert, but I believe a person's vagina is inverted to create the new penis. So I doubt he has had the genital surgery, unless he had it after the birth of their second child.

Nova you can't "invert a vagina". I realize you are not an expert in female genitalia.

They invert the penis to create a vagina in MtoF sex reassignment (to keep the nerve endings and allow for "satisfaction"). In FtoM I believe they take parts of the existing external "sensitive" female tissue to create the penis with additional graphs and such. Regardless to address another posters question they don't just tack a penis on to the existing in tact female genitalia (well I am sure some would do it in Thailand for the right price but that isn't true sex change surgery).

Regardless if she kept her girly parts she is not a man. Why they keep ending up in the media is a big mystery indeed, especially since they claim they have received death threats and don't want the attention.

 

[TrackerSam]

IMO it's been a publicity/media attention stunt from the beginning when the media ran with the headlines that the 1st man gave birth.

We all know men can't give birth.

Had this person just went about her business and had her child without doing interviews and basking in the media spotlight, people wouldn't be reacting to the sensationalized story.

JMO

I think we all know from high school biology or sex Ed that men can not now or will they ever be able to give birth.

Thank you. That's what I've been saying. I see little difference between what she has done and what Catman did.

 

[Sonya610]

Thank you. That's what I've been saying. I see little difference between what she has done and what Catman did.

Well I think this woman is just strange, no real man would WANT to be pregnant or give birth, that is what wives and surrogates are for. Plus if she could give birth I would assume she MIGHT be having a monthly cycle too, how many "men" want to buy feminine hygiene products and bleed once a month? Though maybe the testosterone stopped the cycle? Possible but the hormones would still be fluctuating.

But having said that my old vet went through a FtoM sex change many years ago, she was in her fifties at the time. She explained that it was some weird thing that happens invitro, the brain develops physically male but the body remains female (since all babies are female at conception, some become male later).

Anyway science has since proven it in the case of FtoM, their brains are structurally "male" in many cases, in the case of MtoF they have some signs of feminine traits but not nearly as defined.

Having said that this "man that wants to give birth" is a whole other story entirely!

They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). "It's the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised," Guillamon says. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html

 

[mysteriew]

I think one of the main questions here is what does define gender?

The physical equipment they were born with?

The way they think and feel?

How they choose to live......irregardless of their physical equipment?

What I see here is a lot of confusion. She was born a woman. Okay that is what is currently considered the 'norm'. She chose to have surgery to begin the process to be a man and chose to live as a man. Ok, I can accept that. I understand and accept that for some people they may have been born one sex but feel they are another sex.

But then he/she chose to get pregnant. He is in a marriage with a woman, but when they decided to go through a process to get pregnant, they chose for the designated 'man' to get pregnant. Pregnancy being a female function, for a person who claimed to want to be a man.

That gets confusing. It is like saying I want to be a man part time.

 

[Sonya610]

But then he/she chose to get pregnant. He is in a marriage with a woman, but when they decided to go through a process to get pregnant, they chose for the designated 'man' to get pregnant. Pregnancy being a female function, for a person who claimed to want to be a man.

Unless of course "his wife" is transgender too and didn't have a womb! But if that were the case I am sure they would have told the media all about it.

 

[jjenny]

I'm not an expert, but I believe a person's vagina is inverted to create the new penis. So I doubt he has had the genital surgery, unless he had it after the birth of their second child.

I'm not saying the individuals here didn't participate in the media coverage. Obviously, they did. But from whom do we expect more media knowledge and responsibility, a couple undergoing difficult transitions or PEOPLE magazine?

The so-called "pregnant man" recently declared wanting to have more children with his new girlfriend. So there was no genital surgery done.
Basically, this person had surgery "upstairs" but not "downstairs." All the reproductive organs are intact and are in original form. Testosterone injections are obviously stopped when this person decides to get pregnant.

 

[TrackerSam]

The so-called "pregnant man" recently declared wanting to have more children with his new girlfriend. So there was no genital surgery done.
Basically, this person had surgery "upstairs" but not "downstairs." All the reproductive organs are intact and are in original form. Testosterone injections are obviously stopped when this person decides to get pregnant.

And the pregnancy was deliberate, either by AI or with a man, while knowing she and her girlfriend were breaking up. They can't get a divorce in AZ because same sex marriages are illegal. They have to prove they're not the same sex.

"What held the judge up is wait a second, he had children, he didn't sterilize himself," Cantor said.

"Did Thomas undergo a sufficient enough change to make him now a male and then, of course, the giving birth part factored into that," Higgins explained.

According to Superior Court records, "it appears, by any reasonable standard, Thomas was the biological mother at the times his children were born."

"Under the dictionary definition of having child-bearing organs, that makes him a female by definition, but that's not the definition that the law looks at," Cantor said.

 

[bourne]

And the pregnancy was deliberate, either by AI or with a man, while knowing she and her girlfriend were breaking up. They can't get a divorce in AZ because same sex marriages are illegal. They have to prove they're not the same sex.

"What held the judge up is wait a second, he had children, he didn't sterilize himself," Cantor said.

"Did Thomas undergo a sufficient enough change to make him now a male and then, of course, the giving birth part factored into that," Higgins explained.

According to Superior Court records, "it appears, by any reasonable standard, Thomas was the biological mother at the times his children were born."

"Under the dictionary definition of having child-bearing organs, that makes him a female by definition, but that's not the definition that the law looks at," Cantor said.

Where did they get married? If they married in AZ and AZ doesn't recognize same-sex marriages, they don't need a divorce. Their marriage would be null and void in the first place, correct?

It certainly looks like a publicity stunt -- a fast ride to 15-minutes of fame and money.

 

[jjenny]

From the article, they relocated to AZ so presumably they got married in some other state. Maybe they should go back there to get a divorce.
If there is one thing I am certain on, is that this person was not "world's first pregnant man." This person was born a female. The reproductive system was left intact. Therefore, even if this person managed to change his legal gender, that doesn't make him a biological man.

 

[bourne]

From the article, they relocated to AZ so presumably they got married in some other state. Maybe they should go back there to get a divorce.
If there is one thing I am certain on, is that this person was not "world's first pregnant man." This person was born a female. The reproductive system was left intact. Therefore, even if this person managed to change his legal gender, that doesn't make him a biological man.

Yep, I agree. Unless this woman had a total transsexual operation to alter all her female organs, top and bottom, breasts, uterus, etc., then she is still biologically a woman.

I don't even think this deserves any media attention at all.