Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[Jade]

Here ya go: https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf
View attachment 481585

Nowhere does it say that there is a recording of the narrative related in the store parking lot by RA to the CO.

The CO used a qualifier phase limiting the meaning: he is sure he recorded not that he did record the narrative which doesn’t instill much confidence in him which some of us have been wondering about anyway.

RA doesn’t remember.

I get their point about the CO though. Starts at page 133

If I were RA and I saw that my important tip was being regulated to a lowly CO outside of a local grocery store who “scribbled” in a note book and neither party seems to know if it was recorded I’d be like “forget it I’m marching myself across the street from the CVS to the Sheriff’s office and get this all on video with my signed and sworn statement to protect myself”.

Further if my interview with that CO resulted in my image, which I know good and well is me, still being distributed myself and my attorney would be saying to LE “I done told you I was there but not involved quit showing my picture calling me unknown BG.”




imo

 

[photographer4]

Just wondering - does anyone think the new motion to dismiss by Defense has merit? Does anyone think this could actually end in a dismissal then? It seems kinda big that they don't have the original interviews from the start of the investigation...?

 

[photographer4]

This information is coming from the D, but it's quoted from discovery they got from NMcL. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the State responds to this.

Can we assume that they attached a copy of the note found in the file that detailed the error and why no such recordings were available?

 

[TL4S]

Just wondering - does anyone think the new motion to dismiss by Defense has merit? Does anyone think this could actually end in a dismissal then? It seems kinda big that they don't have the original interviews from the start of the investigation...?

I want to see the State's response, first. These motions today need hearings, and like I said earlier, if JG denies all the D's motions here without any hearings, I believe the SCOIN will find more original actions on their desk soon. Just my layman's guess. Damn it. I don't get my hackles up easily, but today...!

 

[sunshineray]

First, rumors of KAK looking up the Marathon gas station in Delphi on the day of the murders, but video evidence was lost. Then the CO's interview with RA gets misfiled, and he can't find the recording of it. Next, there are the claims that TLi omitted evidence from the PCA, like witness statements. Now this. The D gets all kinds of accusations of "gross negligence" thrown their way, yet some of these possible negligent acts were occurring since the very beginning and have an even bigger bearing on the case, IMO. This should be of great concern. JMO.

I'm concerned...for Abby and Libby's search for justice too. It's just undermined, it seems, at every turn. If it's not the D's gross negligence it's possible investigatorial mishaps. Where's it all going to? Disheartening to say the least. AJMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Just wondering - does anyone think the new motion to dismiss by Defense has merit? Does anyone think this could actually end in a dismissal then? It seems kinda big that they don't have the original interviews from the start of the investigation...?

Yes, I think it has merit.
No, I don't think it will end in dismissal.

 

[photographer4]

Nowhere does it say that there is a recording of the narrative related in the store parking lot by RA to the CO.

The CO used a qualifier phase limiting the meaning: he is sure he recorded not that he did record the narrative which doesn’t instill much confidence in him which some of us have been wondering about anyway.

RA doesn’t remember.

I get their point about the CO though. Starts at page 133

If I were RA and I saw that my important tip was being regulated to a lowly CO outside of a local grocery store who “scribbled” in a note book and neither party seems to know if it was recorded I’d be like “forget it I’m marching myself across the street from the CVS to the Sheriff’s office and get this all on video with my signed and sworn statement to protect myself”.

Further if my interview with that CO resulted in my image, which I know good and well is me, still being distributed myself and my attorney would be saying to LE “I done told you I was there but not involved quit showing my picture calling me unknown BG.”




imo

We agree here that we'd both be marching to LE's office to get this done correctly -especially if we were innocent!!

RE: Dulin - its not a good look though when he says he thinks he recorded all of his interviews for this matter - so I wonder, has he produced other such recordings from other interviews? How many interviews did he do? How many did he record and how many recordings were lost?

 

[Justice101]

I have no earthly idea what is going to happen in this case.

If the Judge dismisses the case on a technicality, there will be hell to pay for the gross injustice to those murdered girls.

If the Judge let's things go, then there is possibly ample for appeal in the future.

Regardless, this case and trial is probably going to drag out for 5 years.,

 

[Ward Thisperer]

I like this one a lot; it's similar to: "the dog ate it."

"Due to DVR program error discovered on 9-20-2017 all recordings up to February 20th.
2017, were recorded over. There is no detectible audio found on this drive."

Even if this was a total accident, this just makes me so sad for the families. Crucial evidence from the first 7 days of the investigation gone forever.
It really should have been backed up at some point in the 7 months these interviews were sitting on the drive if nothing more nefarious occurred.
It feels like everyone involved in this case is in the stone age relating to data security and storage.

I will note in the interest of fairness with how much I scrutinized NM's contempt motion, I dislike that in paragraph 11 of the motion with the quote cited above, B&R state "The videotaped interviews were deleted by the police." They offer very little of a bridge from tech error to such an allegation. I mean LE clearly failed to preserve the evidence which does cause us to ask how purposeful this failure was. Just as AB failing to secure discovery causes many to ask how purposeful it was or jump to allegations against him. I just don't think that jumping to an accusation without careful justification is helpful to anyone's case.

 

[sunshineray]

I want to see the State's response, first. These motions today need hearings, and like I said earlier, if JG denies all the D's motions here without any hearings, I believe the SCOIN will find more original actions on their desk soon. Just my layman's guess. Damn it. I don't get my hackles up easily, but today...!

It's going to take her awhile to go through all that. I can't see her ruling on this happening until after a full hearing with evidence and witnesses. Is the 12th's business going to be postponed or dealt with first?

 

[mrjitty]

If investigators had absolute proof that both Westfall and Holder were nowhere near The Crime Scene that day, could that be enough for them to have ruled both of them out so they didn't need to keep the recorded interviews?

My issue with any attempts to protect either man is the reasons behind it. Why would they cover for them instead of making a quick arrest and being done 7 years ago?

In my opinion, it doesn't make sense.

It's not great that the interviews were lost, but i also wonder, I've never seen any evidence connecting Holder to the murders, and he has an alibi, so not sure how big a deal this is. Would it have been admissible? Would they really have been allowed to call Holder and put him on 'trial'?

The idea of some plot to protect Holder and the other guy seems a bit far fetched

Anyway I guess Gull will reject this motion.

 

[Jade]

We agree here that we'd both be marching to LE's office to get this done correctly -especially if we were innocent!!

RE: Dulin - its not a good look though when he says he thinks he recorded all of his interviews for this matter - so I wonder, has he produced other such recordings from other interviews? How many interviews did he do? How many did he record and how many recordings were lost?

Good points about Dulin and his interviews.
Sounds like he did quite a few if he had to hunt through them looking for RA's.


imo

 

[mrjitty]

Even if this was a total accident, this just makes me so sad for the families. Crucial evidence from the first 7 days of the investigation gone forever.
It really should have been backed up at some point in the 7 months these interviews were sitting on the drive if nothing more nefarious occurred.
It feels like everyone involved in this case is in the stone age relating to data security and storage.

I will note in the interest of fairness with how much I scrutinized NM's contempt motion, I dislike that in paragraph 11 of the motion with the quote cited above, B&R state "The videotaped interviews were deleted by the police." They offer very little of a bridge from tech error to such an allegation. I mean LE clearly failed to preserve the evidence which does cause us to ask how purposeful this failure was. Just as AB failing to secure discovery causes many to ask how purposeful it was or jump to allegations against him. I just don't think that jumping to an accusation without careful justification is helpful to anyone's case.

That's why I wonder whether these are really written for the judge.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes. Item 23:

In more recent discovery, defense also located prepared search warrant application to AT&T for data contained on Brad Holder's and Patrick Westfall's mobile devices. Each application states that Holder/Westfall is "a known member of religious sect, and elements of the Murder have potential religious significance."

I am curious as to who prepared these SWs.

I wonder if they lacked PC to get the warrants?

The statement quoted doesn't exactly lay out much of a foundation

 

[TL4S]

I wonder why BH and PW were people LE wanted to talk to so soon after the murders?

 

[mrjitty]

I want to see the State's response, first. These motions today need hearings, and like I said earlier, if JG denies all the D's motions here without any hearings, I believe the SCOIN will find more original actions on their desk soon. Just my layman's guess. Damn it. I don't get my hackles up easily, but today...!

I guess they would have to appeal through the normal channels

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder why BH and PW were people LE wanted to talk to so soon after the murders?

Small community hunches?

Given what we know of the crime scene, it might have been one of their earliest theories?

 

[sunshineray]

It's not great that the interviews were lost, but i also wonder, I've never seen any evidence connecting Holder to the murders, and he has an alibi, so not sure how big a deal this is. Would it have been admissible? Would they really have been allowed to call Holder and put him on 'trial'?

The idea of some plot to protect Holder and the other guy seems a bit far fetched

Anyway I guess Gull will reject this motion.

This is what I was wondering about. RA's trial is not the place to put two other men on trial. So how is that going to be dealt with? RA's trial is the prosecution's time to put on evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If the defense feels the prosecution is making points with the jury, then they have to address those. Throwing the blame on Odinists without producing them, wouldn't that be doomed to fail?
So how does the D get those men on the stand to testify without then putting them on trial within a trial?

 

[photographer4]

It's going to take her awhile to go through all that. I can't see her ruling on this happening until after a full hearing with evidence and witnesses. Is the 12th's business going to be postponed or dealt with first?

Given her silence on the motion to continue the 12th for contempt, I imagine she's hearing that (and she may be eager to address that before she does anything further).

 

[Justice101]

It's not great that the interviews were lost, but i also wonder, I've never seen any evidence connecting Holder to the murders, and he has an alibi, so not sure how big a deal this is. Would it have been admissible? Would they really have been allowed to call Holder and put him on 'trial'?

The idea of some plot to protect Holder and the other guy seems a bit far fetched

Anyway I guess Gull will reject this motion.

That's what would happen on Perry Mason LOL!

All the Defense is allowed to do is show that there were other suspects and they were no followed up on.

But that is hard to instill doubt in the jury.

Some of this is elementary... "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck"