Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[Salah11]

Also wasn’t it months before the unspent cartridge was recovered?

I have never heard this before do you have a link to find this information?

 

[Salah11]

Delphi murders: Unspent bullet at scene ties Richard Allen to girls’ deaths, court docs allege

An unspent .40-caliber bullet found less than two feet from the body of Liberty “Libby” German in 2017 is key evidence tying Allen, a CVS pharmacy technician, to the murders of Liberty "Libby" German and her best friend, Abigail “Abby” Williams.

www.kiro7.com

Detectives looking into the cold case were able to arrest Allen after linking the bullet from the scene to a Sig Sauer P226 that belongs to him, the affidavit states. Though the bullet had not been fired, testing showed that the projectile had been “cycled” through Allen’s weapon

So they say they can prove it came from his gun.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That is correct. Per Pg 31 of the memorandum:

View attachment 482145

That might be one of the only things I believe from the Franks Memo written by the Defense. The PCA states the bullet was located between the two girls, it didn't mentioned buried under leaves or dirt, but it might have been stepped on in the killer's haste to depart the scene or by LE when they were on the scene.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Delphi murders: Unspent bullet at scene ties Richard Allen to girls’ deaths, court docs allege

An unspent .40-caliber bullet found less than two feet from the body of Liberty “Libby” German in 2017 is key evidence tying Allen, a CVS pharmacy technician, to the murders of Liberty "Libby" German and her best friend, Abigail “Abby” Williams.

www.kiro7.com

So they say they can prove it came from his gun.

Yes, a certified ballistics expert concluded the bullet was fired from RA's gun, but also stated that the science of ballistic technology is debatable science to some. Thank goodness it is allowed testimony in the State of Indiana. I can see 2 certified experts battling it out and the jury ultimately giving more weight and credibility to one of them.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Delphi murders: Unspent bullet at scene ties Richard Allen to girls’ deaths, court docs allege

An unspent .40-caliber bullet found less than two feet from the body of Liberty “Libby” German in 2017 is key evidence tying Allen, a CVS pharmacy technician, to the murders of Liberty "Libby" German and her best friend, Abigail “Abby” Williams.

www.kiro7.com

So they say they can prove it came from his gun.

They can try to prove it.
Even the examiner, Melissa Oburg, states: "The interpretation of identification is subjective in nature"... based on research and her experience.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Heck since we seem to referencing the FM by the D, I'll not some discrepancies: Page 4 (emphasis mine)

2) Very early on, those in charge of the Delphi murder investigation claim that they
consulted with a Purdue professor concerning what resembled possible Odinism signatures left
behind at the crime scene. After the Purdue professor proclaimed (according to State Trooper Jerry
Holeman) that “it was not Odinism or any type of cult worshipping or any type of group that would
have conducted the crime” the Odinism angle was essentially abandoned.

So here we know that LE did consider and consult on the Odinism angle and abandoned it after the Purdue professor claimed it wan't a cult worshipping type of group that conducted the crime. Sounds logical to me.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Page 5 of FM: (emphasis mine)

3) On May 1, 2023, the State of Indiana, by way of Prosecutor Nick McCleland, received a letter from former Rushville Assistant Police Chief Todd Click, now retired.

As stated in the previous paragraph: Click, Murphy and Ferency were three of the law enforcement officers who
worked on the Delphi murder case, particularly focused on the Odinite angle as it intersected with
suspects in Rushville Indiana. After reading Richard Allen’s probable cause affidavit, Click
became concerned that the information contained in Richard Allen’s affidavit pointing the finger
at Richard Allen was far less compelling than the totality of the information that Detective Ferency,
Detective Murphy and Officer Click had accumulated during the Rushville portion of the
investigation.

So Click, who in 2023 and was now retired with lots of free time on his hands obviously, decided his, Murphy's and Ferency's idea made more sense than those of LE, ISP and the FBI. Oh, and the Purdue Professor who claimed it was NOT an act of a cult back in 2017 right after the murders. Okay, maybe he was bored, maybe he wanted the attention or maybe the reward? IDK But how could it be considered exculpatory if LE as a whole investigated the Odinist angle and consulted with an expert who decided it was NOT the act of a cult worship? Just because C,M,F said so?

Lets not forget the FM famous footnotes:
5) Find attached the summary that Click attached with his letter, marked as Exhibit 4. Odinists have Nordic beliefs.

Wow, you don't say. Everybody knows that at this point it doesn't make them killers.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

They can try to prove it.
Even the examiner, Melissa Oburg, states: "The interpretation of identification is subjective in nature"... based on research and her experience.

True but then add in all the other evidence I am sure that will be shown it’s just another damming bit of the puzzle.

MOOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Heck since we seem to referencing the FM by the D, I'll not some discrepancies: Page 4

2) Very early on, those in charge of the Delphi murder investigation claim that they
consulted with a Purdue professor concerning what resembled possible Odinism signatures left
behind at the crime scene. After the Purdue professor proclaimed (according to State Trooper Jerry
Holeman) that “it was not Odinism or any type of cult worshipping or any type of group that would
have conducted the crime” the Odinism angle was essentially abandoned.

So here we know that LE did consider and consult on the Odinism angle and abandoned it after the Purdue professor claimed it wan't a cult worshipping type of group that conducted the crime. Sounds logical to me.

JMO

I'll help you flesh out your post about the Purdue Professor Turco they interviewed and then "couldn't find."
[snips]
According to our sister station at WTHR, Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett swore under oath on Aug. 8, 2023, that a professor at Purdue did not believe sticks on the bodies were Odinist symbols. The defense went on to say that Prosecutor Nick McLeland allegedly told the defense the prosecution was unable to identify the professor on Sept. 6, 2023.
...
Holeman says he allegedly said he was working to set up the interview with Turco for several weeks, despite defense claims that it would have coincided with the same time that the prosecution claimed they could not identify Turco.
...
Turco went on to bring in outside counsel from Harvard University who agreed with the deduction. Turco went on to say that, he ”could certainly imagine that this was somebody’s idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes ... there are some poetic sources that would sort of support that idea that somebody might have come across ... that scenario seems entirely plausible to me.”
...

Attorneys for Delphi murders suspect identify Purdue professor, say police withheld info

The defense team says the newly filed information supports its claim that Odinists were responsible for the murders of Libby German and Abigail Williams.

www.wndu.com

 

[Betty P]

But the folks who wrote the Odinist report were the FBI task force, who was still on the case as of July 2021 (which is also the same month one of its members was killed). I don’t know … I just really don’t think the FBI then walked away from this and said, “ok, Nevermind - all yours now.”

By any chance does someone have a link to an FBI report for this case that specifically discusses signs of Odinism? I’ve done some searches online and can’t find anything. The only mention of it is in the filings of the defense team. TIA

 

[girlhasnoname]

Page 13 of 136:

On April 12, 2017, Trooper JRW received a phone call from a man in Georgia named RB who had discovered disturbing images in BH’s social media account. Having somehow learned that BH's son had dated Abby Williams, Mr. B began reviewing BH’s social media history. (RB learned of the rumor about Abby & BH's son from a FB site on SM itself.)

Spoiler: CS Details stated

One of the images B viewed on BH’s social media account was an image of two women either dead, or posed as if they were dead, on the ground in what appeared to be a forest. Both women had tree limbs and sticks arranged on their bodies. One of the women had her arm stretched out above her head, similar to the way that Libby’s arm was stretched above her head. Both women were clothed and the stick and tree branch formations on these girls was different than the stick and tree branch formations on Abby and Libby, but otherwise, it bore a very eerie similarity to the murder scene in Delphi.

So now we have an armchair sleuth digging through BH's Facebook for connections to the murders who saw some images that MAY BE SIMILAR, NOT EXACT, of the CS and that is supposed to be taken as fact. It has been stated that BH's son and Abby had only met one time at a baseball game, hardly the die hard romance the Defense would have you believe. BH's son also confirmed that he had only met her one time. Remember Abby was 14 at the time not 16 or 17, not driving and meeting up with a bf.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'll help you flesh out your post about the Purdue Professor Turco they interviewed and then "couldn't find."
[snips]
According to our sister station at WTHR, Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett swore under oath on Aug. 8, 2023, that a professor at Purdue did not believe sticks on the bodies were Odinist symbols. The defense went on to say that Prosecutor Nick McLeland allegedly told the defense the prosecution was unable to identify the professor on Sept. 6, 2023.
...
Holeman says he allegedly said he was working to set up the interview with Turco for several weeks, despite defense claims that it would have coincided with the same time that the prosecution claimed they could not identify Turco.
...
Turco went on to bring in outside counsel from Harvard University who agreed with the deduction. Turco went on to say that, he ”could certainly imagine that this was somebody’s idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes ... there are some poetic sources that would sort of support that idea that somebody might have come across ... that scenario seems entirely plausible to me.”
...

Attorneys for Delphi murders suspect identify Purdue professor, say police withheld info

The defense team says the newly filed information supports its claim that Odinists were responsible for the murders of Libby German and Abigail Williams.

www.wndu.com

I can understand how Liggett couldn't produce the name of the Professor that said it wasn't a cult sacrifice in his opinion after 2017-2023 off the top of his head. A lot of tips and information had poured in since then, and the idea that it was a ritualistic sacrifice was dismissed.

Even in your post it says Turco says:

he ”could certainly imagine that this was somebody’s idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes ... there are some poetic sources that would sort of support that idea that somebody might have come across ... that scenario seems entirely plausible to me.”

This is what a lot of us have been saying from the beginning, the scene was staged to look like what might be considered a sacrifice, not that it was an actual sacrifice.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

By any chance does someone have a link to an FBI report for this case that specifically discusses signs of Odinism? I’ve done some searches online and can’t find anything. The only mention of it is in the filings of the defense team. TIA

I don't have a link to one handy. There have been sooooo many documents in this case. If I run across it, I will happily post it for everyone.

 

[girlhasnoname]

In an effort not to power post the thread, I'll try to keep these limited to a few a day. After 136 pages, I might be done by the time the trial starts.

 

[mrjitty]

Page 13 of 136:

On April 12, 2017, Trooper JRW received a phone call from a man in Georgia named RB who had discovered disturbing images in BH’s social media account. Having somehow learned that BH's son had dated Abby Williams, Mr. B began reviewing BH’s social media history. (RB learned of the rumor about Abby & BH's son from a FB site on SM itself.)

Spoiler: CS Details stated

One of the images B viewed on BH’s social media account was an image of two women either dead, or posed as if they were dead, on the ground in what appeared to be a forest. Both women had tree limbs and sticks arranged on their bodies. One of the women had her arm stretched out above her head, similar to the way that Libby’s arm was stretched above her head. Both women were clothed and the stick and tree branch formations on these girls was different than the stick and tree branch formations on Abby and Libby, but otherwise, it bore a very eerie similarity to the murder scene in Delphi.

So now we have an armchair sleuth digging through BH's Facebook for connections to the murders who saw some images that MAY BE SIMILAR, NOT EXACT, of the CS and that is supposed to be taken as fact. It has been stated that BH's son and Abby had only met one time at a baseball game, hardly the die hard romance the Defense would have you believe. BH's son also confirmed that he had only met her one time. Remember Abby was 14 at the time not 16 or 17, not driving and meeting up with a bf.

JMO

FWIW, MS have an epsiode on this stuff. A guy went through as many of the SM posts that are still available to examine some of the claims in the Franks.

 

[girlhasnoname]

FWIW, MS have an epsiode on this stuff. A guy went through as many of the SM posts that are still available to examine some of the claims in the Franks.

I've only listened to one MS podcast can you share the name of this one?

I just thought it would be fair to equally point out all the discrepancies and insinuations that aren't even proven facts, just their opinion since everyone seems intent to use the Defenses's FM as gospel somehow instead of the PCA. Once you start going line by line (and footnote by footnote) it's amazing to see how much they have misstated as fact and how much they've stated, but then say in footnotes it might not be that way because of x,y,z.

It's mind blowing actually. I don't intend to read the CS information in detail because it's too triggering to me, but I understand the Defense didn't even speak with the Medical Examiner before filing this? What?

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Uhh... this guy who wrote the filing was on the MS podcast, talking about Delphi, back in December.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen Goes to the Indiana Supreme Court: A Conversation with Indiana University Maurer School of Law Federal Habeas Project Director Michael Ausbrook

We recently interviewed attorney Michael Ausbrook about the Indiana Supreme Court cases involving Richard Alle. Ausbrook is a professor at the Indiana University Maurer School of Law, and is the director of the Habeas Project there. He has years of experience working habeas cases, and also...

art19.com

Thanks for the link to the Ausbrook interview. I haven't been watching MS regularly but really wanted to hear what this atty had to say. It's well worth every minute of listening.

I'm impressed with who the watchers of this case are.

 

[Vern]

The Supreme Court sure didn't support the trial court when the trial court unbelievably removed the defense lawyers from the case! The Supreme Court reinstated the defense team, as we all know.

And they strongly supported the trial court Judge by not removing her as per the D-Team request.

 

[Betty P]

I don't have a link to one handy. There have been sooooo many documents in this case. If I run across it, I will happily post it for everyone.

I did some searching and the only reference I see is to the original defense teams claims about Odinism. No FBI report has been made public.

 

[Betty P]

And they strongly supported the trial court Judge by not removing her as per the D-Team request.

Given the way this legal process has begun, I've decided to skip the pre-trial circus and start following when the trial begins. JMO, this pre-trial stage is going to last a long time given Indiana's way of doing things. I predict there won't be a trial until late this year or later.