Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[Justice101]

The colored jacket is typical witness recollection errors. Very common. Because unless the perpetrator is acting strange or the witness is otherwise watching closely, they really don't have much of an idea what clothes someone was wearing unless they were really paying attention.

This was probably 1 man. One man who had a blue jacket on the outside and tan jacket partially underneath. Easy to confuse in your mind when you aren't really paying attention and would never suspect 2 murders were about to happen. Sort of looks like his tan fanny pack is part of a jacket hanging out below his belt.

 

[girlhasnoname]

SBM - direct connection to someone who was close to the victim — like his son being the bf of Abby?
The pieces of evidence that implicate BH are circumstantial, yes, but are about his postings on FB at the time such as drawings of bodies under a tree with sticks arranged on top of them like runes. This is not DNA evidence, but was investigated and thought to be significant by members of LE.
Personally I’m not convinced of the BH theory, but I don’t see any reason to discard this piece of info as if it’s not relevant at all.

p116 of the FM, B&R cite the timestamp where they say she says it was a tan jacket
View attachment 481793

My guess is that if they had any case to sue the D, they’d have lawyers jumping at the chance to take the case and get their cut. However, it seems they don’t have any case.

That doesn’t follow because the FM isn’t a portion of discovery, its work product. Some discovery material is contained in the exhibits and marked as confidential.

According to the FM p81 someone called in a tip soon after the murders based on what BH was posting on FB
View attachment 481798

I was sure it probably came from the FM. Thanks though.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The colored jacket is typical witness recollection errors. Very common. Because unless the perpetrator is acting strange or the witness is otherwise watching closely, they really don't have much of an idea what clothes someone was wearing unless they were really paying attention.

This was probably 1 man. One man who had a blue jacket on the outside and tan jacket partially underneath. Easy to confuse in your mind when you aren't really paying attention and would never suspect 2 murders were about to happen. Sort of looks like his tan fanny pack is part of a jacket hanging out below his belt.

SC's report to LE said she observed the man in blue jeans and blue jacket. The FM is where it got changed to tan.

<snipped>
Investigators spoke with SC , who stated that she wast raveling East on 300 North on February 13%, 2022 and observed a male subject walking west, on the North side of 300 North, away from the Monon High Bridge. SC advised that the male subject was wearing a blue colored jacket and bluejeans and was muddy and bloody. She further stated, that it appeared he had gotten into a fight. Investigators were able to determine from watching the video from the Hoosier Harvest Store that SC was. traveling on CR 300 North at approximately 3:57pm.

 

[TL4S]

SC's report to LE said she observed the man in blue jeans and blue jacket. The FM is where it got changed to tan.

<snipped>
Investigators spoke with SC , who stated that she wast raveling East on 300 North on February 13%, 2022 and observed a male subject walking west, on the North side of 300 North, away from the Monon High Bridge. SC advised that the male subject was wearing a blue colored jacket and bluejeans and was muddy and bloody. She further stated, that it appeared he had gotten into a fight. Investigators were able to determine from watching the video from the Hoosier Harvest Store that SC was. traveling on CR 300 North at approximately 3:57pm.

Devil's advocate...

This information is coming from the PCA. There are claims that things might have been omitted from that PCA. There have been no hearings for us to hear facts, either way, being presented before the court. Just because many people dislike and don't trust the D does not necessarily mean everything the State presents is whole and accurate. That's just entirely my own take on things. I don't trust anything when it isn't transparent to me. JMO.

 

[Salah11]

It’s good to see these things being posted again because there clearly was no multiple men just waiting in the shadows waiting for the two girls.

Only RA dressed as BG waiting on the first platform for them to pass where he had them trapped.

Unfortunately they walked past him not suspecting anything was wrong and he likely stepped off the trail again to make sure the coast was clear and to make sure they was walking all all away across and then he started his journey after them.

Just one man that day with sick evil intentions waiting for the perfect victim and unfortunately he got two.


IMO MOO

 

[Yesiamapirate]

There were SO MANY tips coming in, IN PERSON, INTERNET, BY PHONE that LE had so much going on, not surprise inexperienced officers were used and made mistakes.

And go figure. Out of all of those tips coming in, the very tip they needed was lost (or whatever it was) for years. Very unfortunate.

 

[Justice101]

It’s good to see these things being posted again because there clearly was no multiple men just waiting in the shadows waiting for the two girls.

Only RA dressed as BG waiting on the first platform for them to pass where he had them trapped.

Unfortunately they walked past him not suspecting anything was wrong and he likely stepped off the trail again to make sure the coast was clear and to make sure they was walking all all away across and then he started his journey after them.

Just one man that day with sick evil intentions waiting for the perfect victim and unfortunately he got two.


IMO MOO

I completely agree with your take on how it went down.

After looking at the fish which he was "acting" like he was doing when the girls walked by, he then only had to walk maybe 20 feet to get far enough back onto the trail to look back and see nobody was coming.

I think he was walking very fast towards the girls in order to not have someone new show up that started onto the trail right after he last checked. I think he was walking fast like that is what alerted Libby to turn on her video. She had to know something was wrong with this weird guy walking towards them quickly.

God, I wish they would have pushed him off the bridge when he walked right up to them. But then again, who would ever think they were about to get kidnapped and murdered????? Hindsight is always 20/20.

He probably walked them across the creek then (or they made a run for it) and he caught one of them and threatened her if the other didn't stop.

He stayed in the woods after killing them and worked his way back to his car thru the woods and the road.

 

[FrostedGlass]

New filings

02/08/2024	Appearance Filed Appearance For Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/07/2024
02/08/2024	Motion Filed for Summary Denial of State's Information Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/07/2024

 

[photographer4]

And with that said by a prosecutor on the flip side you have the defense doing just that by continuing to call two men (actually they named more than two in FM) murderers who've been investigated and not charged. Who's more honorable?

It’s not about honour. Robert Ives wasn’t acting as defence for RA. We may not like how they go about it, but the defense is doing their job.

 

[photographer4]

I agree. You'd also think though that if a call came in from a man who said he was at the trails that day, an experienced investigator would have been assigned to interview him at a recorded sit down. JMO

Who interviewed BB and SC? And where? Are those recorded? Your post made me wonder.

 

[TL4S]

New filings

02/08/2024	Appearance Filed Appearance For Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/07/2024
02/08/2024	Motion Filed for Summary Denial of State's Information Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/07/2024

Hmm, I wonder if the second one is in regards to the unspent round.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Hoping someone can link and explain the SCOIN decision.

It's in.

 

[TL4S]

DBM

 

[photographer4]

Where's the pro bono lawyer advocates for these men? Just remarkable. Guess they need to be arrested first.

EF (the one who said he spat on Abby’s body and she had sticks for horns) declined a polygraph requested by LE via a lawyer. Perhaps he has a probono?

 

[Ward Thisperer]

SC's report to LE said she observed the man in blue jeans and blue jacket. The FM is where it got changed to tan.

<snipped>
Investigators spoke with SC , who stated that she wast raveling East on 300 North on February 13%, 2022 and observed a male subject walking west, on the North side of 300 North, away from the Monon High Bridge. SC advised that the male subject was wearing a blue colored jacket and bluejeans and was muddy and bloody. She further stated, that it appeared he had gotten into a fight. Investigators were able to determine from watching the video from the Hoosier Harvest Store that SC was. traveling on CR 300 North at approximately 3:57pm.

I sure wish that if the defense was making up outrageous lies about what witnesses stated on specific timestamps in their interview, that the State would have bothered to correct that or to request sanctions on the defense for such outrageous behavior. Yet, while they have made allegations about the defense lying in specific other instances, and so has JG, they have never ever alleged that the defense lied about what SC stated.
All the State bothered to tell us was a vague statement that the defense arguments about false or omitted evidence in the FM were "not true" and "not supported" in general. They don't bother to explain this in the least or even make a general statement such as "The Defense misquoted witness interviews."

And JG didn't bother to have this straightened out at a hearing.

Personally, I think that since when State and JG have expressed such concern with the behavior of the D, if anything in the FM was a clear lie or falsehood we would have been informed about this by now, as it would have been clearly relevant to the Contempt allegation and JG's reasons for dismissing them in October.

 

[FrostedGlass]

If the allegation is that LE has framed RA and avoided BH due to a thin blue line / Odins in LE.. then.. of all the people they could have framed - why RA? They could have laid this on RL and been done with it. GK, DN, JE, or a host of others. Why choose RA?

I'm pretty sure they thought RA was their guy in the beginning. He sure fell into their laps at an opportune time.
They likely still do think he's guilty but strange occurrences seem to be happening along the way. I think, at this point, the coincidences are piling higher for the prosecution than for the defense. MOO

I have little idea of why they didn't go with some of those you named. It seems like GK would have been a really good one since he was so messed up he didn't even know where he was that day.

Maybe Ives had different ideas than McLeland when they were looking at suspects?
Maybe they sometimes go with the one they think will be the easiest to convict in some cases?

 

[somequestions]

The solution in this case seems to be one of the following:

1. Richard Allen is the murderer based on timelines of witness testimony and the unspent cartridge with toolmark striations that prove the unspent cartridge found at the crime scene could only have come from his gun. As for how he managed to get back to his car after the crime while avoiding the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance video and numerous trail walkers who had shown up, I do not know. He should have been walking around in wet and muddy shoes and pants by that time, yet it appears no one saw anyone with that description, except for a witness driving along 300 N at 3:57pm. He must have hidden from the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera or any walking witnesses he saw coming towards him on the trail by hiding behind trees as he tried to get back to his car. Trees and plants off the trail might not provide very good coverage in February though. It is possible he got lucky that the only witness who saw him after the crime was the one driving along 300 N at 3:57pm.

2. Bridge guy came in to the trail area through the southeast side of the bridge and left the same way somehow. No one ever saw him for this reason. Abby and Libby did not actually get on the trail that leads to the Monon High Bridge until right around 2pm and after the witness who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 had come back down the trail to the Mears entrance and after Richard Allen had come back down the trail past the Mears entrance too. The witness never actually saw Abby and Libby as she walked back from the Monon High Bridge or she did not see them until she was back near her car at the Mears entrance and Richard Allen had passed by Mears entrance back to Freedom Bridge. Maybe she saw two other females or observed Abby and Libby on the other trail nearby, but that is the only way it makes sense.

I know the first scenario is more likely, but I really thought somebody or the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera would have seen Richard Allen after the crime. But it is possible that maybe he was not seen by anyone walking with wet and muddy(and possibly bloody) shoes and clothing all the way back to his car at the old CPS building. That is possible.

 

[Salah11]

The solution in this case seems to be one of the following:

1. Richard Allen is the murderer based on timelines of witness testimony and the unspent cartridge with toolmark striations that prove the unspent cartridge found at the crime scene could only have come from his gun. As for how he managed to get back to his car after the crime while avoiding the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance video and numerous trail walkers who had shown up, I do not know. He should have been walking around in wet and muddy shoes and pants by that time, yet it appears no one saw anyone with that description, except for a witness driving along 300 N at 3:57pm. He must have hidden from the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera or any walking witnesses he saw coming towards him on the trail by hiding behind trees as he tried to get back to his car. Trees and plants off the trail might not provide very good coverage in February though. It is possible he got lucky that the only witness who saw him after the crime was the one driving along 300 N at 3:57pm.

2. Bridge guy came in to the trail area through the southeast side of the bridge and left the same way somehow. No one ever saw him for this reason. Abby and Libby did not actually get on the trail that leads to the Monon High Bridge until right around 2pm and after the witness who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 had come back down the trail to the Mears entrance and after Richard Allen had come back down the trail past the Mears entrance too. The witness never actually saw Abby and Libby as she walked back from the Monon High Bridge or she did not see them until she was back near her car at the Mears entrance and Richard Allen had passed by Mears entrance back to Freedom Bridge. Maybe she saw two other females or observed Abby and Libby on the other trail nearby, but that is the only way it makes sense.

I know the first scenario is more likely, but I really thought somebody or the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera would have seen Richard Allen after the crime. But it is possible that maybe he was not seen by anyone walking with wet and muddy(and possibly bloody) shoes and clothing all the way back to his car at the old CPS building. That is possible.

He knew the area and went out walking there I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he knew how to avoid being detected that afternoon.

His only downfall which obviously spooked him was he was spotted on his walk to the bridge by multiple people even with part of his face covered.

IMO

 

[TL4S]

I believe this should work. SCOIN decision.

Adobe Acrobat

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm pretty sure they thought RA was their guy in the beginning. He sure fell into their laps at an opportune time.
They likely still do think he's guilty but strange occurrences seem to be happening along the way. I think, at this point, the coincidences are piling higher for the prosecution than for the defense. MOO

I have little idea of why they didn't go with some of those you named. It seems like GK would have been a really good one since he was so messed up he didn't even know where he was that day.

Maybe Ives had different ideas than McLeland when they were looking at suspects?
Maybe they sometimes go with the one they think will be the easiest to convict in some cases?

By beginning, when do you mean - back in 2017?
IMO - RA will be the hardest to convict of the suspects, based simply on past record and the groundswell of social media support he is receiving.

What he DOES have is no alibi. The others may have had unbreakable alibis.