Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[TL4S]

15. It is reasonable to conclude that if Tony Liggett had notified Judge Diener that certain people not named Richard Allen, nor connected to Richard Allen, were moving in and around the crime scene then Judge Diener would not have signed the affidavit, especially based upon the paucity of evidence otherwise contained in the affidavit connecting Richard Allen to the murders.

16. Said geofencing information would have provided evidence to Judge Diener that negated Richard Allen's presence at the crime scene. Ligget should have told Judge Diener that crucial, relevant and exculpatory information which had been available since 2017, especially when Liggett's affidavit was written in October, 2022, over five years later.

...So where was RA's phone, then, and when? Because RA put himself at the CS (bridge) in this same approximate (rough) timeframe. Clearly, the bridge had to have been included in the geofencing range. Where's RA's little dot on the map, and at what times does it appear? The "exculpatory" quality of all of this would depend on the answer, if the map in fact exists, and people have already noted how difficult it is to get those warrants. The P has already noted they think others are potentially involved, so while this geofencing is extremely interesting, it's not necessarily "exculpatory." It could end up being the opposite, all MOO.

We really know nothing. We don't know the size of the original geofence, the time range of the geofence, or anything at all about RA's phone data. We don't even know if one of those phones was L's. For me, the whole geofence data is meaningless without more information. Jmo.

Let's say RA really was there from noon to 1:30, like he told LE in Oct. 2022. Even if the geofence reached to the bridge, it seems the map of numbers LE tracked started at 12:39. If RA had been to the bridge and was already heading back to sit on the bench, like he claimed, maybe he was out of the geofence by 12:39. I'm not saying this is or is not what happened, but I'm keeping an open mind because neither side has brought up RA's phone data yet. I totally understand why people think this suggests his phone wasn't there, or was off, because that's hard evidence for the P, and the D haven't plastered it within every court document. But neither has the P (unlike LE in Kohberger's case). We just don't truly know yet. I'm sure it will come out at trial, if not before. Jmo.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Now we've circled back to RL who was cleared by LE, ISP and FBI, oh my. BG looks nothing like RL, neither in body frame, age, weight or height. I've played the RL interviews and watched the BG video countless times. Not even close, especially in the torso to legs proportions IMO.

RA=BG=Killer(s), add in the fact that RA places himself there during the time of the murders and his own confessions, and I believe we will find out were made to others than just his wife and mother.

Let's not forget the SW that the Defense has filed a FM for 3 times. Gotta be something there the Defense sure doesn't want the public to be aware of. If RA is so innocent (their words) I wonder what that could be or why they are so worried? I believe it may end up being some type of 'trophy' associated to one or both girls.

Tomorrow can't come soon enough for me. This entire mockery of the Justice system is beyond anything I've ever seen.

I wonder how many more "Motions" DH can pound out by tomorrow at 9:00 am? Maybe he'll decided to take today off and celebrate St. Patricks Day.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[layer]

We really know nothing. We don't know the size of the original geofence, the time range of the geofence, or anything at all about RA's phone data. We don't even know if one of those phones was L's. For me, the whole geofence data is meaningless without more information.

True!
And there are gaps between what is theoretically possible, practically possible, and legally possible. And there's always the risk of bad data, or good data being misinterpreted. And this was over 7 years ago.
JMHO

 

[susane7]

Now we've circled back to RL who was cleared by LE, ISP and FBI, oh my. BG looks nothing like RL, neither in body frame, age, weight or height. I've played the RL interviews and watched the BG video countless times. Not even close, especially in the torso to legs proportions IMO.

RA=BG=Killer(s), add in the fact that RA places himself there during the time of the murders and his own confessions, and I believe we will find out were made to others than just his wife and mother.

Let's not forget the SW that the Defense has filed a FM for 3 times. Gotta be something there the Defense sure doesn't want the public to be aware of. If RA is so innocent (their words) I wonder what that could be or why they are so worried? I believe it may end up being some type of 'trophy' associated to one or both girls.

Tomorrow can't come soon enough for me. This entire mockery of the Justice system is beyond anything I've ever seen.

I wonder how many more "Motions" DH can pound out by tomorrow at 9:00 am? Maybe he'll decided to take today off and celebrate St. Patricks Day.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

Agree. In my opinion RL doesnn't look or sound like BG and if I remember correcly, he didn't lie about his alibi. He said he was in a Aquarium World but he lied and said it is his cousin who drove him to the aquarium shop to avoid getting in trouble for driving.

 

[layer]

Agree. In my opinion RL doesnn't look or sound like BG and if I remember correcly, he didn't lie about his alibi. He said he was in a Aquarium World but he lied and said it is his cousin who drove him to the aquarium shop to avoid getting in trouble for driving.

I think the reason LE found that so suspect, as do I, is the fact that he felt compelled to create an alibi before there was any reason to need an alibi.

 

[Betty P]

Now we've circled back to RL who was cleared by LE, ISP and FBI, oh my. BG looks nothing like RL, neither in body frame, age, weight or height. I've played the RL interviews and watched the BG video countless times. Not even close, especially in the torso to legs proportions IMO.

RA=BG=Killer(s), add in the fact that RA places himself there during the time of the murders and his own confessions, and I believe we will find out were made to others than just his wife and mother.

Let's not forget the SW that the Defense has filed a FM for 3 times. Gotta be something there the Defense sure doesn't want the public to be aware of. If RA is so innocent (their words) I wonder what that could be or why they are so worried? I believe it may end up being some type of 'trophy' associated to one or both girls.

Tomorrow can't come soon enough for me. This entire mockery of the Justice system is beyond anything I've ever seen.

I wonder how many more "Motions" DH can pound out by tomorrow at 9:00 am? Maybe he'll decided to take today off and celebrate St. Patricks Day.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

Zero respect for the state government of Indiana for allowing this abuse of the US justice system to continue. Appalled at their attitude that sexual abuse and murder of children are less important than the "rights"of the men to abuse them.
There's an undercurrent of an institutional and cultural message that is extremely sick in how this is being handled. JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

We really know nothing. We don't know the size of the original geofence, the time range of the geofence, or anything at all about RA's phone data. We don't even know if one of those phones was L's. For me, the whole geofence data is meaningless without more information. Jmo.

Let's say RA really was there from noon to 1:30, like he told LE in Oct. 2022. Even if the geofence reached to the bridge, it seems the map of numbers LE tracked started at 12:39. If RA had been to the bridge and was already heading back to sit on the bench, like he claimed, maybe he was out of the geofence by 12:39. I'm not saying this is or is not what happened, but I'm keeping an open mind because neither side has brought up RA's phone data yet. I totally understand why people think this suggests his phone wasn't there, or was off, because that's hard evidence for the P, and the D haven't plastered it within every court document. But neither has the P (unlike LE in Kohberger's case). We just don't truly know yet. I'm sure it will come out at trial, if not before. Jmo.

A geofence investigation of phones in action would have been useful around the abandoned building, where some people parked more or less eye-catching. I think, it's too late.

 

[pseudo_hum]

Agree. In my opinion RL doesnn't look or sound like BG and if I remember correcly, he didn't lie about his alibi. He said he was in a Aquarium World but he lied and said it is his cousin who drove him to the aquarium shop to avoid getting in trouble for driving.

Agreed, IMO, if you watch video of RL as he was interviewed by the news, its difficult to see him trying to walk across the bridge, IMO.

 

[layer]

Agreed, IMO, if you watch video of RL as he was interviewed by the news, its difficult to see him trying to walk across the bridge, IMO.

I wouldn't try to cross that monstrosity.

 

[photographer4]

15. It is reasonable to conclude that if Tony Liggett had notified Judge Diener that certain people not named Richard Allen, nor connected to Richard Allen, were moving in and around the crime scene then Judge Diener would not have signed the affidavit, especially based upon the paucity of evidence otherwise contained in the affidavit connecting Richard Allen to the murders.

16. Said geofencing information would have provided evidence to Judge Diener that negated Richard Allen's presence at the crime scene. Ligget should have told Judge Diener that crucial, relevant and exculpatory information which had been available since 2017, especially when Liggett's affidavit was written in October, 2022, over five years later.

...So where was RA's phone, then, and when? Because RA put himself at the CS (bridge) in this same approximate (rough) timeframe. Clearly, the bridge had to have been included in the geofencing range. Where's RA's little dot on the map, and at what times does it appear? The "exculpatory" quality of all of this would depend on the answer, if the map in fact exists, and people have already noted how difficult it is to get those warrants. The P has already noted they think others are potentially involved, so while this geofencing is extremely interesting, it's not necessarily "exculpatory." It could end up being the opposite, all MOO.

If the start of the bridge to the first platform isn’t considered part of the crime scene it may not be within the radius of the crime scene. If it doesn’t go within that radius that may be why they say exculpatory.

But they sure want whatever was found at the house to be waived off as inadmissible so there must be something we don’t know yet.

 

[Spartygirl]

Ah, the confusion was mine. You're right. Thst was the late-recovered tip narrative about the stock ticker on his phone.

In the October, 2022 interview, at least what's included in the AA, he was watching fish.

What we don't know:

What else he may have said
What else he didn't say
What they asked him
What evidence they may have presented him with
Whether his answers were adapted to that information
Whether he did or didn't have his phone
Whether it was off, in airplane mode or left elsewhere
Whether he had another phone
Whether he left the scene with any phone
Eager to see the digital forensics in this case.

JMO

BBM
They confiscated at least 10 other cell phones in their search at RA's house so who knows which one(s) he had with him
Not sure how the geo-search works but if they are NOT registered to him, then obviously, he would not show up on the geo-search pings.


NOT sure if below are same ones as above but on separate document with different codes

 

[layer]

BBM
They confiscated at least 10 other cell phones in their search at RA's house so who knows which one(s) he had with him
Not sure how the geo-search works but if they are NOT registered to him, then obviously, he would not show up on the geo-search pings.
View attachment 491144View attachment 491145

NOT sure if below are same ones as above but on separate document with different codesView attachment 491147

Presumably even pre-paid burners would have ESN, MEID, IMEI and MAC address numbers which could be matched.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Could anyone honestly say that sketch looks anything like RA?

{me: slowly and nervously raises hand}
I feel YBG sketch resembles his high school photo. Could have been intended to have someone who knew him back then tip him in.

Who is Richard Allen? - News & Review

On the southeast side of Delphi sits a neighborhood filled with children. In one yard, a swing sways gently in the breeze as a soft rain falls; playhouses can be seen in the backyard of a home with toys strewn about. Dogs run back of forth in a game of chase in the backyard of another home...

www.newsandreviewonline.com

 

[sunshineray]

yes but in the tip narrative

i think we don’t know what he said in his formal interview

I think of it more than a tip since it was information given to a natural resources law enforcement officer during interview. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Just jumping in here to check status on this case. Has the trial begun yet? Aren’t these kind of arguments brought up during trial? Why are they arguing all of this evidence in the news media when the prosecution can’t respond to the defense? Why is this being allowed and will Indiana ever get this trial back on track?

I’ve never seen a situation where the alleged killer and his barely qualified defense team are allowed to completely hijack the process. At this rate it seems unlikely this trial will ever be completed.

Are there federal charges that can be brought against the defendant? Perhaps that’s the best option at this point. It’s tragic how badly this has been handled, but maybe it’s time to move on to Plan B.

JMO

Short answer to your third question...because the defense continues to release motions.

 

[sunshineray]

I think the reason LE found that so suspect, as do I, is the fact that he felt compelled to create an alibi before there was any reason to need an alibi.

I have wondered if he heard something and went to look. He'd certainly know the time frame then of when he didn't want to have been around his property.

 

[Betty P]

Short answer to your third question...because the defense continues to release motions.

In other trials I've followed, the defense team files the motions with the court. Summary information about the motions is released publicly. Same with discovery - just a summary.

The judge schedules a hearing where both prosecution and defense are present to argue the motions. Prior to the hearing, if the judge sees a problem with any of the motions, he calls the prosecution and defense into his chambers to discuss the issue. Its resolved or not. Everyone goes into court and the defense is allowed to make their case in court regarding their motion. They're not allowed to read a long detailed motion that contains information about evidence that is under seal. The judge has strict rules about what information they can release during their motion argument. If they start getting into details of evidence, prosecution objects and the judge reprimands them.

I have heard judges severly reprimand defense attorneys in court by saying (paraphrasing) "You will not be allowed to try your case in the news media". They must save all that for the trial.

There's no jury present in a pre-trial hearing. The judge alone rules on the motions. Since the judge has already read all the details in the defense motions, they don't need to be released to the public until the trial. All the details will come out in the trial for the jury and the public to see and hear.

The Indiana court needs to only publicly release summaries of the defense motions. They need to make the defense or prosecution file motions that mention a summary of what they want with a very brief description of why its wanted for public release. JMO

I've never followed a case where the defense is allowed to submit motions to be read by the public that are dozens of pages long with voluminous amounts of information about evidence and other details of the crime, inexpert opinions, etc. That's not normal.

 

[layer]

I have wondered if he heard something and went to look. He'd certainly know the time frame then of when he didn't want to have been around his property.

Interesting! So you think he saw the dead bodies on the afternoon of the 13th and didn't report it, even when subsequently asked permission to search his land? That seems odd. Then again everything has been odd about this case all along.

 

[mrjitty]

I've never followed a case where the defense is allowed to submit motions to be read by the public that are dozens of pages long with voluminous amounts of information about evidence and other details of the crime, inexpert opinions, etc. That's not normal.

RSBM

Agreed - the new fake franks motion is a great example of it. They just wanted to brief part of the discovery to their client youtubers.

DH even dropped his recent motion to the client youtubers before it appeared on mycase.

I am kind of sceptical how much any of this really helps their client. IMO its more about their own egos and self promotion.

 

[layer]

I've never followed a case where the defense is allowed to submit motions to be read by the public that are dozens of pages long with voluminous amounts of information about evidence and other details of the crime, inexpert opinions, etc. That's not normal.

Just curious, do you normally follow trials with gag orders?