Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[layer]

• 2 pagers

I wonder if he had a pager on him? I wonder if that's how he was getting stock quotes?

 

[snooptroop88]

• A miniature katana with a red tassel

<modsnip: No link to image>
Don't laugh, something like that could be the murder weapon.

That thing's flipping creepy looking. I can see why it's not on display, though, I mean it's tiny. They do make larger "minis," I see one about a foot in length.

<modsnip - off topic>

 

[layer]

March 18 - MOTION TO DISMISS - Transcript
(afternoon session March 18th)

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

Finally, and just look at that beautiful watermarked pdf transcript, with full copy functionality!

 

[Emma Peel]

Witness Click describes the exculpatory discovery involving gang that was NOT provided to the Defense (thus the Defense's Motion to Dismiss).

Recall that EF told his sister he "was now a brother in a gang" ...
IMO, New information here is that Billy Messner lived w/ Elvis Fields. This seems to confirm that
the gang EF had become a "brother" in ... was Westfall's/Messner's VINLANDER gang.

TODD Click Answered: "I knew from previous incidents that Johnny Messer's Uncle Billy Messer lived with Elvis Fields"


March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

Okay. So after that, Detective Murphy and Detective Ferency told me that

Volume 1, Page 5

DIRECT EXAMINATION OF TODD CLICK ....

3 0 Who were they?
5A They were Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall.
6 Q Okay. Keep going
7 A They asked me if I could help maybe try and find a tie between Elvis Fields
8 and Mr. Holder and Mr Westfall.

Q Okay. So that was one of your kind of things that you did in this course
of this investigation?
9 A That is correct.
10 Q Were you able to find any ties between Elvis Fields and Brad Holder and
1I Patrick Westfall?
12 AYes, I was
13 QWhat ties did you find?
14 A While reviewing some photographs on Brad Holder's Facebook page, E
15 located a photograph with the approximately five individuals, they were all
16 wearing Vinlander T-shirts

17 Q For those who don't know, what is Vinlander?
18 A Vinlander is a group that practices Norse and paganism religion, kind of

19 along the Viking culture.
20 Q Okay. Keep going.
21A So in the photos, I identified Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall, and there
22 was a gentleman standing in between the two of them that I immediately
23 recognized to be Johnny Messer

24 Q Okay. How do you know Johnny Messer?
25 A Johnny Messer is from Rushville, he'd been arrested numerous times from

Volume I, Page 6

DIRECT EXAMINATION OF TODD CLICK

Q Okay. Keep going.
A So in the photos, I identified Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall, and there
was a gentleman standing in between the two of them that I immediately
recognized to be Johnny Messer
24 Q Okay. How do you know Johnny Messer?
25 A Johnny Messer is from Rushville, he'd been arrested numerous times from

Volume I, Page 6

DIRECT EXAMINATION OF TODD CLICK

I
2 the Rushville Police Department, so I was very familiar with Johnny.
Q Okay. What else, if anything, did you do following the recognition that
3 [Johnny Messer from Rushville was hanging out with these two guys from Delphi
4 named Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall?
5 A Okay. So I knew from previous incidents that Johnny Messer's uncle, Billy
6 Messer, used to live with Elvis Fields
7 Q Okay. So that's another connection?
8 A That is correct.
9 Q Keep going.
10 A So I contacted Detective Ferency and Detective Murphy and told them
11 I specifically to look at that photo and that the individual standing in between
12 Brad Holder and Patrick Westfall was Johnny Messer, who was an individual
13 from Rushville.

 

[Boxer]

Amazon

Hejiu Hademade Mini Katana, Tanto Small Samurai Short Sword 1095 High Carbon Steel, Full Tang, Sharp, Functional,Practical, Various S...


This one is 13" so its a real knife even though it says "mini."

 

[DeDee]

This is a very dangerous case.

 

[IminSyd]

March 18 - MOTION TO DISMISS - Transcript
(afternoon session March 18th)

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

Thanks for posting this, was an interesting read.
I think the D made some reasonable points around LE record keeping practices, and LE response to the interview videos being erased (why didn’t they follow this up with new/replacement interviews at the time). D also made the point that the State didn’t highlight to them in writing that some of the videos had been erased when State provided discovery. However it didn’t seem to me that they reached what was required for dismissal with Click’s evidence.
I think the D’s “big ticket” question for trial was around why LE accepted BH’s alibi follow-up that he was at work on 13/2. It seems like LE followed up with the Human Resources Director who provided time checkin data for BH. D suggest that LE should have followed-up further, checked with co-workers that the clock-in was actually BH on the day, checked car park video.
I think this was a peek of how trial will be. D will be trying to interject “Franks memo stuff” wherever they can - State will be very ready to object. Judge G will be irritated by this behaviour from D.
My Opinion and thoughts only nowhere near being a lawyer.

 

[FromGermany1]

Didn't he have a sword, though? The katana. That's kind of a more unusual item. Pretty different from his others that would be for utility, sportsman purposes. I wonder where that katana was kept. Someone still has a Facebook page up that shows images from the family home, I don't see that katana on display anywhere, and there are no small children in the home. But maybe it just didn't happen to be in the images on the site I viewed. I read, too, they took small books from the premises. And I can't find anywhere mentioned that he had a motorcycle, so wondering why he had the motorcycle cover, and why they took it. If he himself doesn't and hasn't owned a motorcycle, I have a guess on that but don't like to mention it because it would involve his family members. Happy Easter everybody! Weather was just horrible.

Apropos motorcycle: I actually wonder, why no biker "gang" was ever mentioned since we have moved beyond our first guesses. When many bikers met in Delphi to honour Abby/Libby with a benefit/memorial ride, I thought at the time, the girls' murderer easily could have turned up on his motorcycle and noone would have been the wiser.

 

[FromGermany1]

Baby goat!
I am assuming they will have additional recordings from his voice from his multiple in prison phone calls as well to compare to the “DTH” audio.
Could they make a recording of cocking his seized gun and compare it to the sound in the recorded audio taken during abduction as well?
JMO

On a lighter note. Happy Easter to those that celebrate. Hope you get to spend some special time with those you love.

I think, the voice I have, walking on a high (63 ft) bridge with some wind around my face, being just about to kidnap and murder two teenage girls (adrenalin rush?), and the voice I have, when calling my wife or mother on phone from a jail hallway, can't be comparable to each other. MOO
Wonder, what TL thinks of his memory re voice now years later. He said in 2017, he somehow would know this voice, but didn't remember, from where and why. Certainly he didn't know the voice from being at the local CVS store, but rather from hearing a similar voice outdoors (think of events!), maybe through a microphone.

 

[girlhasnoname]

@girlhasnoname
Regarding your comment wondering why RA's wife isn't speaking out:

Dec. 2, 2022 - Gag order
Judge Gull issues a gag order that prevents all parties from speaking publicly on the case.
Involved parties, counsel, law enforcement officials, court personnel, the coroner and family members are not allowed to speak publicly on the case.
A hearing is scheduled for Jan. 13, 2023 at 10 a.m. in the Carroll County Circuit Court. At that hearing, the judge will review the order to decide if it should remain in place.
Anyone who violates the gag order could be held in contempt of court and is subjected to a fine or incarceration.

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.wthr.com

Thanks for that reminder FG, I forgot the applies to the Defendants family also.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Page 16 SS in case it can't be opened.

View attachment 494078

DRV138 sticks out to me - One brown fitted cap with small bill. Lots of sweatshirts there too.

DRV126 is his waist and length size 34x29. 29" is pretty much the shortest standard length in mens jeans and the reason I have payed close attention to how his jeans have fit and break (kind of roll) above the ankle looking at many pictures posted on KA's SM.

MOO

 

[vinayd]

On page 60 of the transcript. Good Lord they just don't stop with trying to interject irrelevant information. It is stated time and time again that none of those people were suspects.

 

[susiQ]

On page 60 of the transcript. Good Lord they just don't stop with trying to interject irrelevant information. It is stated time and time again that none of those people were suspects.

Perhaps if Unified Command (oxymoron) had allowed Click, Ferency and Murphy to continue their investigation and give them a SW, they would have been suspects! JMO

 

[mrjitty]

i suspect they didn’t have probable cause for search warrants. they just had a theory.

IMO

 

[vinayd]

Perhaps if Unified Command (oxymoron) had allowed Click, Ferency and Murphy to continue their investigation and give them a SW, they would have been suspects! JMO

I hear ya but there’s a reason the SW wasn’t granted. Lack of probable cause comes to mind. moo

 

[Cyber sleuth]

• A miniature katana with a red tassel

<modsnip: Image removed due to no link>
Don't laugh, something like that could be the murder weapon.

Years ago women wore sharp hat pins to protect themselves from attacks. They weren’t just for pinning on a pretty flower or peacock feather.
IMO this katana could be easily carried in a pouch or pocket and play into a fantasy. JMHO

 

[Boxer]

I think, the voice I have, walking on a high (63 ft) bridge with some wind around my face, being just about to kidnap and murder two teenage girls (adrenalin rush?), and the voice I have, when calling my wife or mother on phone from a jail hallway, can't be comparable to each other. MOO
Wonder, what TL thinks of his memory re voice now years later. He said in 2017, he somehow would know this voice, but didn't remember, from where and why. Certainly he didn't know the voice from being at the local CVS store, but rather from hearing a similar voice outdoors (think of events!), maybe through a microphone.

The CVS is 1000 ft from the sheriff department and its the only pharmacy in Delphi.
MOO Pretty sure every deputy and the sheriff at some point was were checked out by RA.

 

[FromGermany1]

The CVS is 1000 ft from the sheriff department and its the only pharmacy in Delphi.
MOO Pretty sure every deputy and the sheriff at some point was were checked out by RA.

I see, but would RA have had the same voice in this CVS environment, talking to clients?

 

[Boxer]

I see, but would RA have had the same voice in this CVS environment, talking to clients?

I think similar enough that Leazenby did know he had talked to BG somewhere, but after the sheriff revealed that fact publically, I would assume RA engineered never speaking to Leazenby again if he happened to come into CVS for a prescription.

 

[Justice101]

I see, but would RA have had the same voice in this CVS environment, talking to clients?

IMO, nobody is gong to isolate his voice from the video and put 1 and 1 together to get 2.

His voice is NOT that unique and people usually recognize people by site and not by voice.