Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[Cyber sleuth]

A walk and murder.

Wish defense had hired you for the FM. You are always succinct.
JMO

 

[legalmomma]

susane7 said:
I don't have time to post the filing now but I am just want to say the State filed a answer to the 3rd Franks hearing. Some interestings things about the geofencing and Prof Turco.

They accuse the defence of outright lying in multiple places. (screenshot)

I am kind of at a loss as to how this keeps happening in this case. I get disagreements over interpretation, but Turco either said stuff or he didn't. I guess we'll have to wait for his actual exhibits.

State’s response to defendant’s 3rd Franks motion

State’s Response to 3rd Franks Motion

drive.google.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775571902615912860

 

[Salah11]

They accuse the defence of outright lying in multiple places. (screenshot)

I am kind of at a loss as to how this keeps happening in this case. I get disagreements over interpretation, but Turco either said stuff or he didn't. I guess we'll have to wait for his actual exhibits.

Shock horror the defense have lied yet again and been called out on it by the prosecution.

If he wasn’t stood accused of killing two teenager girls I would almost feel sorry for RA in having such lousy lawyers representing him.

IMO

 

[justtrish]

Maybe you would have 'wanted' to scream. But many crime victims will tell you that at the key moment when they needed and wanted to scream, for some unknown reason, they could not make a scream happen. It is like you are frozen.

It is a common experience of violent crime victims, imo.

I agree. We think we would do something, but we really don't know until we are threatened or feel threatened and if he did hold a gun as one of the girls was heard mentioning on the audio.. fear is powerful.

 

[FrostedGlass]

In the spirit of joining the cell phone conversation: I live in a world where people are forever leaving their cells at a friend's house, leaving them at their own house when leaving, misplacing them, running out of battery power, etc.
Some people leave them in their cars all day.
Not one of those incidences have any nefarious actions behind them.

They found no data extracted from RA’s phone connects him to the murders. That sounds pretty simple to me = they have his phone and there was nothing on it connecting him to the murders.

 

[Salah11]

In the spirit of joining the cell phone conversation: I live in a world where people are forever leaving their cells at a friend's house, leaving them at their own house when leaving, misplacing them, running out of battery power, etc.
Some people leave them in their cars all day.
Not one of those incidences have any nefarious actions behind them.

They found no data extracted from RA’s phone connects him to the murders. That sounds pretty simple to me = they have his phone and there was nothing on it connecting him to the murders.

I live in the exact opposite world where we are joined to hip. If we lose our phones it’s like losing a limb. Maybe it’s a age thing as certainly the younger you are the more exposed you have been to having technology around you 24/7.

Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Respectfully, I am not ignoring anything. I have asked you for an official record of these witnesses, could you please provide a source for this information about witnesses?

I am providing citations submitted on official documentation.

Furthermore, regarding RA’s timeline:

bbm

“In trying to provide Liggett and Mullin a timeline of when he (Richard Allen) was at the trail, Richard stated he arrived at the trail around noon. Later in the interview, Richard Allen told Liggett and Mullin that he probably left the trail around 1:30 pm.”

Exhibits:

156 Find attached Richard Allen's October 13, 2022 (Exhibit 110), interview. Richard Allen does not realize that he is being interrogated as a suspect until much later in the interview.
157 Exhibit 110 Richard tells Liggett and prosecutor investigator Mullins from the prosecutor's office that he had arrived around noon at the 10:57:40 mark.
158 Exhibit 110 at the 11:53:43 mark.

View attachment 494727

Source for quote & image:
page 109
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

This is the Defense Memorandum in Support of Frank Hearing not a confirmed, every word is factual kind of document.

 

[layer]

They found no data extracted from RA’s phone connects him to the murders. That sounds pretty simple to me = they have his phone and there was nothing on it connecting him to the murders.

I was going to respond earlier but I left my phone in my car. Someone needs to compile a list of what we know for a fact, what we suspect based on (solid or otherwise) evidence, and what more we need to be comfortable ending a man's life. Maybe like a Cliff's Notes.
Case in point - Do we absolutely know for a fact that they have RA's phone, the one he said he was using that day on the trails?

 

[girlhasnoname]

In the spirit of joining the cell phone conversation: I live in a world where people are forever leaving their cells at a friend's house, leaving them at their own house when leaving, misplacing them, running out of battery power, etc.
Some people leave them in their cars all day.
Not one of those incidences have any nefarious actions behind them.

They found no data extracted from RA’s phone connects him to the murders. That sounds pretty simple to me = they have his phone and there was nothing on it connecting him to the murders.

RA's historical cell phone usage will be (or has already been) analyzed. If for the past 5 years he took his phone with him, didn't turn it off, or put in airplane mode, it is a pattern that will be established.

If that pattern is substantially different on the day of the murders that is a HUGE red flag. I've seen it happen in 2 recent court hearings, which ended up in a guilty verdict.

I don't think it's been stated by the State there is no phone data connecting RA to the murders and they do have one of the top FBI experts to present the CAST information. So IDK???

Evidence presented at trial will answer our questions either way.

moo

 

[zh0r4]

Can you explain what this means in short, easy words for the electronically challenged? Please and thank you.

From my understanding, this data resets every time the phone turns off, so I’m a bit confused at its relevance? Especially this much later; I would think it would be useless re: data recovery 5 years later, in any case.

JMHO.

 

[Jade]

Who did you see yesterday at 10:00 am? Was their hair poofy? Did they have any tattoos? Etc...

ETA: sorry, posted early on accident; added neuroscience journal article

Link: The Neuroscience of Memory: Implications for the Courtroom

That is a very interesting article.

Wouldn’t these witness be giving the open ended statements as to what they did, saw and heard to the best of their recollection?

Couldn’t then the YBG memory be of another minor park goer and unrelated to the evidence of BG by L?

Since you asked yes I can remember I say confidently and probably incorrectly.
There was poofy hair.
[My fashion police work is never done; it is exhausting but observations are made]

Thank you for your participating on these threads I enjoy your professional view.

all imo

 

[FrostedGlass]

I was going to respond earlier but I left my phone in my car. Someone needs to compile a list of what we know for a fact, what we suspect based on (solid or otherwise) evidence, and what more we need to be comfortable ending a man's life. Maybe like a Cliff's Notes.
Case in point - Do we absolutely know for a fact that they have RA's phone, the one he said he was using that day on the trails?

LOL at the part I highlighted; why did you do that?

No, we don't know for an absolute fact that we have the one he was using. However, given the number of phones they removed from his home, I'd be willing to bet they do have it.

He didn't ditch his car, his gun, his ammo, his blue Carhartt jacket, his boots (what else?) so I'll assume he didn't ditch his phone either.

That's a good idea about compiling a list; the fact part will be short.

 

[layer]

RA's historical cell phone usage will be (or has already been) analyzed. If for the past 5 years he took his phone with him, didn't turn it off, or put in airplane mode, it is a pattern that will established.

Do we know which carrier RA was using over all those years, or their policy of deleting data? Anyone know which carriers are most prevalent in Delphi? There were 5 major carriers operating in 2017:

Verizon Wireless
Subscriber Information: 7-10 years
Call History: 7 years
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 1 rolling calendar year
SMS Content: 3-5 days (although I’ve been told unofficially it may be as much as 7-10 days)
Tower Dumps: 1 year
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 8 days

AT&T
Subscriber Information: 7 Years
Call History: 7 years
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 7 years
SMS Content: Not Available
Tower Dumps: 7 years
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 180 days

Sprint
Subscriber Information: 10 years
Call History: 18 months. Bill reprint form 7-10 years, pre-pay accounts only 18 months regardless.
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 18 months
SMS Content: Not Available
Tower Dumps: 18 months
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 14-90 days. The technician advised that after 14 days, certain detail in these records is purged, but the remainder is kept for up to 90 days.

T-Mobile
Subscriber Information: 3-5 years. Canceled accounts are purged after account closes.
Call History: 23 months
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 23 months
SMS Content: Not Available
Tower Dumps: 3 months
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 23 months. This seems rather long to me, but the technician repeated it on the phone.

U.S. Cellular
Subscriber Information: up to 7 years
Call History: 1 rolling calendar year. Bill reprint: 7 years.
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 1 rolling calendar year
SMS Content: 3-5 days
Tower Dumps: 1 rolling calendar year
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: Not Available (technician stated would be coming soon).

Source

 

[AugustWest]

That is a very interesting article.

Wouldn’t these witness be giving the open ended statements as to what they did, saw and heard to the best of their recollection?

Couldn’t then the YBG memory be of another minor park goer and unrelated to the evidence of BG by L?

Since you asked yes I can remember I say confidently and probably incorrectly.
There was poofy hair.
[My fashion police work is never done; it is exhausting but observations are made]

Thank you for your participating on these threads I enjoy your professional view.

all imo

Haha! You got my point on the memory thing though?

To answer those questions: (1) Yes the witnesses can and will give their recollections to the best of their ability; and (2) that absolutely could be the case, which actually illustrates the point why eyewitness identification can be sketchy. It will be coupled with other evidence (as everyone likes to remind me ) though. Jury will have to decide credibility due to whatever factors the defense counters with (eyesight issues, suggestive lineups, memory issues, whatever they feel they can attack to discredit the eyewitness reliability).

Thanks for the kind words about my participation and professional yada yada. I actually hate lawyering; I have a Masters in Public Health also, undergrad was biochemistry/cell biology. You guys keep my brain young with your pesky thoughts!

 

[AugustWest]

LOL at the part I highlighted; why did you do that?

No, we don't know for an absolute fact that we have the one he was using. However, given the number of phones they removed from his home, I'd be willing to bet they do have it.

He didn't ditch his car, his gun, his ammo, his blue Carhartt jacket, his boots (what else?) so I'll assume he didn't ditch his phone either.

That's a good idea about compiling a list; the fact part will be short

Hmmmm....hiding something @layer

 

[vinayd]

@layer maybe AT&T since they are mentioned in the latest filing?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Do we know which carrier RA was using over all those years, or their policy of deleting data? Anyone know which carriers are most prevalent in Delphi? There were 5 major carriers operating in 2017:

Verizon Wireless
Subscriber Information: 7-10 years
Call History: 7 years
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 1 rolling calendar year
SMS Content: 3-5 days (although I’ve been told unofficially it may be as much as 7-10 days)
Tower Dumps: 1 year
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 8 days

AT&T
Subscriber Information: 7 Years
Call History: 7 years
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 7 years
SMS Content: Not Available
Tower Dumps: 7 years
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 180 days

Sprint
Subscriber Information: 10 years
Call History: 18 months. Bill reprint form 7-10 years, pre-pay accounts only 18 months regardless.
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 18 months
SMS Content: Not Available
Tower Dumps: 18 months
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 14-90 days. The technician advised that after 14 days, certain detail in these records is purged, but the remainder is kept for up to 90 days.

T-Mobile
Subscriber Information: 3-5 years. Canceled accounts are purged after account closes.
Call History: 23 months
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 23 months
SMS Content: Not Available
Tower Dumps: 3 months
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: 23 months. This seems rather long to me, but the technician repeated it on the phone.

U.S. Cellular
Subscriber Information: up to 7 years
Call History: 1 rolling calendar year. Bill reprint: 7 years.
Tower Locations as they related to Call History: 1 rolling calendar year
SMS Content: 3-5 days
Tower Dumps: 1 rolling calendar year
Range to Tower (RTT) Data: Not Available (technician stated would be coming soon).

Source

If you have the time or inclination, you can research his phones to see if they were gsm or cdma. OR maybe that wasn't even an issue in the area at the time.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that anyone else's opinion was bad. I apologize.

I was just saying that all these nitty picky details of doubt do not necessarily add up in a court room because of a general need to use accumulative evidence to convict.

Sorry again, I will try to check my stronger opinions at the door.

You are entitled to your opinions Justice, just as we all are. You bring very much needed logic into our conversations and you are always respectful of other posters.

I'd say there are strong opinions on both sides of this case as there would be with any other. We are all just stating our views based on our interpretation of what we've seen and know after all these years. Doctors, Lawyers, Indian Chiefs are all entitled to their opinion.

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

Thanks for the kind words about my participation and professional yada yada. I actually hate lawyering; I have a Masters in Public Health also, undergrad was biochemistry/cell biology. You guys keep my brain young with your pesky thoughts!

 

[girlhasnoname]

A walk and murder.

A walk and 2 murders

IMO