Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[girlhasnoname]

LE depos is quite broad language. Have all LE's full depositions in this case been released to the public?

We have only heard about the Defense Depos, I don't think the State has made theirs public info. The D included theirs, supposedly, with their Franks Memo.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Same for the bullet that the defense are trying to get thrown out. Let the jury decide on its relevance on it showing RA was at the crime scene and participated in the murders.

Yes, and why are the D fighting so very, very hard (4 Franks anyone?) to get the search warrant squashed since they believe Rick is 100% innocent.

Sounds to me the D knows they're in deep doo. Suck it up, act like a professional and defend your client to the best of your ability, you know the guy you never mention anymore because your own feelings have been so hurt by Mean Ole' Judge Gull.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don't know nothing about AT and geofecing and how it works and I won't read the motion again but if I remember well, the defense supported more in At and pings (apparently the pings aren't very reliable in Delphi) and they didn't understood how it works. But both the prosecution and the defense know who the owners of the 3 phones are. The defense isn't screaming that is one of the odinists, so I guess it is not.

According to the Hennessy who decide to went to youtubers channels and talk about the experts of the prosecution, the prosecution has 3 experts about geofecing, so geofecing will be important in some way.

Because they have nothing else, they are going to try and make it something. I'm not worried, I've seen FBI analysts explain this technology to juries a lot of times and it will make common sense when they're done, maybe even to R&B.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think the conduct of this Defense Team and all their SM quasi legal experts and hangers on have lead this case right into the toilet that it is in now. It isn't about personalities, I don't care about R&B personally. I want them to act like professionals and bring RA to trial. Their filings are filled with enough childish words and accusations. Ding dong, really?

I'm not frustrated, I'm disgusted...big difference there. What I do care about is Justice and Truth for Abby & Libby, and to see the killer of these girls taken to trial, found guilty by a jury of his peers and for him to spend the rest of his days behind bars. Abby & Libby were innocent, they've been buried for 7 years. RA has been allowed to enjoy his life like nothing has happened until his arrest. Time for that to change.

Accountability, the D doesn't have it and RA hasn't taken it either even though he has confessed numerous times. I see that changing in the near future, unless the D continues to drag this thing out.

It's comical considering according to R&B RA's' so innocent and they're so emotionally invested in seeing him exonerated. Let's go gentlemen, put up or shut up.

MOO

Ya know, personalities may actually matter to a jury. Ironically, today I was reading an old article about why Casey A was acquitted. It’s a good read. Here’s a quote.

“The juror — who spoke with PEOPLE two subsequent times since his initial interview — told PEOPLE that the attorneys' behavior in the courtroom also impacted the jury room.”

How Casey Anthony Was Acquitted: The Jurors Explain Their Controversial Verdict

Several jurors have spoken out in the past seven years to explain why they declared Casey Anthony not guilty of murder

people.com

 

[Willow Knight]

A link would be helpful. Can you please provide one to back up your assertion? TIA.

I provided one a few pages back, if you missed it I'll post again.

We only know what has been RELEASED to the public. Here is a link. We must wait until trial for other evidence.

Court documents say investigators found important evidence against Allen at the crime scene — an unspent bullet found between Abby and Libby's bodies. Investigators claim ballistics testing on that bullet matches a gun they found inside Allen's home when they conducted a search warrant. It is some of the most powerful evidence offered by the state to link Allen to the crime scene.

Judge in Delphi murders case to allow evidence found during search of Richard Allen's home​

Richard Allen's attorneys claimed the sheriff and others lied to get the search warrant and, therefore, what they found should be thrown out.

www.wthr.com

 

[Jade]

We know from discovery, LE has testified under oath during their depositions that they do not have any DNA linking RA to the crime.

Said strategically.

Imo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Speaking of DTH, Defense Diaries (Bob and Ali Motta) is having a "DTH reunion" tonight with Barb MacDonald and I think her co-host? Blanking on his name. (ETA: It's Andrew Iden)

Just an FYI.

That'll be a hard pass for me.

 

[Emma Peel]

My problem is that a lot of the so called facts presented are pulled from the fantasy based totally misleading and unsupported Franks Motion.
The only legal discussion involves the silly defense declared feud against Judge Gull.
A trial would end this, but the defense won’t allow it.
I will join a book club if I want to discuss fiction.
Silly childish grudges do not further the case.
I’m no longer interested in RA’s prison accommodations. Asked and answered and ruled on.
I am interested in these two young girls.

View attachment 513137

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I do understand.

Myself, I don't mind reading filings that challenge my own thinking.
Motions are not fiction; they're logical arguments or theories based on fact. Certainly, many motions/arguments just do not get the job done/miss the mark. Depending the view you're coming from ... some read like a fractured or looking glass view of the facts. For me (jmo), a good motion, successful or otherwise, is one that compels you to think out of the box, or to view the facts from another point of view. A good motion (whether it wins or not) can play a part in moving the parties closer to an understanding, even to a mediation or plea. (Not sure that applies to criminal life sentences though.)

The Court controls the trial Calendar, not the Defense. The Court does that by setting and managing expectations with the D and the P, managing the trial court schedule including discovery deadlines and hearings. The Court - in its own world - is omnipotent. Prolonged chaos or delay does not occur without the Court's permission, tacit or otherwise.

A Book Club is a wonderful thing!

At this point - the Court has ordered RA's 2 years in solitary in a prison - RA's unusually harsh suspect holding circumstances combined with the coerced confession claims have assured him an appeal. A haunting thought for the victims' families. It is very sad.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Ya know, personalities may actually matter to a jury. Ironically, today I was reading an old article about why Casey A was acquitted. It’s a good read. Here’s a quote.

“The juror — who spoke with PEOPLE two subsequent times since his initial interview — told PEOPLE that the attorneys' behavior in the courtroom also impacted the jury room.”

How Casey Anthony Was Acquitted: The Jurors Explain Their Controversial Verdict

Several jurors have spoken out in the past seven years to explain why they declared Casey Anthony not guilty of murder

people.com

Well, I can hope that the D continues to act childish and I hope the State has their act together tightly and NM is on his game. I think he's likable, but I don't think he's ever tried a major murder trial like this before. I think R&B have lost some of their swagger in the eyes of public opinion. IMO

As the article said, it really ultimately came down to the evidence. Evidence BARD and I feel confident in that.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[grannygates]

Said strategically.

Imo

Just so we are all on the same page as to what the quotes are from the depositions of TL and JH. This is a screenshot from page 129 of the super Franks with citations from the depos. They look to me like straightforward statements, so maybe someone has an idea of how these could be minced words? MOO

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf -

pdfhost.io

 

[steeltowngirl]

Well, I can hope that the D continues to act childish and I hope the State has their act together tightly and NM is on his game. I think he's likable, but I don't think he's ever tried a major murder trial like this before. I think R&B have lost some of their swagger in the eyes of public opinion. IMO

As the article said, it really ultimately came down to the evidence. Evidence BARD and I feel confident in that.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

Others may disagree, but NM has been professional in his motions and limited media appearances. I’m almost worried for RA, as the jury rightfully should only care about evidence. But clearly they are human, and at least in the Casey A case, they factored in the attorneys’ behavior. For RA’s sake, ding-dong talk shouldn’t make its way to the jury.

jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

You state that it's not possible to identify BG by the video, I don't agree. I see RA in the video.

Agreed there will be additional audio and video presented at trial. LE didn't release it in its entirety, but the video is another big brick in RA's wall of guilt.

JMHO

Circling back, just saw this.

As mentioned, it's my understanding that the BG altered video (2 sec clip) can't be admitted at trial. (sorry if I'm repeating myself.)

I realize a lot of folks feel like they can "see RA" in that video. A lot of folks saw RL in that video as well.

I'll share my thinking: There's been no State disclosure on the changes made to the original image in order to create the 2-second BG avatar. We know it's been enlarged, enhanced, edited and cropped to serve as an avatar to encourage tips. No doubt the image did it's job: encourage more local tips. IMO, it's not an identification tool.

I see: a dressed blob: a blue-jacket, jeans, boots, possible hat, hands in pocket, head down, comfortable/steady on the bridge, white dude, likely. (Which I think ... is a pretty good amount of information, but also, could be a lot of folks.)

While Libby's full video (if shown at trial), may also not be a useful "BG = RA" hard identification tool (what expert would go there?) ... Certainly, BG's clothing type and color can be determined. (And that's useful given RA's admissions.) We'll have to see if there's expert opinion on height/weight based upon that original video. I would think an expert could explain the estimated height/weight for BG that's been provided and provide an opinion as to RA's 2017 match to that estimation. Maybe that is wishing too much, though. RA's 5'5", and BG's never been that short.

Regardless, I'd agree that Libby's BG video from her I-phone is a BIG BRICK. Especially as to a timestamp. It is a brick as to LE's storyline of the bridge abduction. If the word "gun" is audible via Libby's video - that audio (and timestamp) there's a huge brick for the kidnap charges.
IMO, the original video/audio are an important piece - of the circumstantial case.

JMHO

 

[steeltowngirl]

At this point - the Court has ordered RA's 2 years in solitary in a prison - RA's unusually harsh suspect holding circumstances combined with the coerced confession claims have assured him an appeal. A haunting thought for the victims' families. It is very sad.

He may not even be convicted.
A very haunting thought if he is actually guilty.

jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

Except - if EF's DNA was not found on the girls. Seems if he had spit on the girls as suggested, his DNA would have been detected.

jmo

If "NO useful DNA" was found on the girls ... why would we expect that EF's DNA would be found on the girls?

Just thinking that the expert coroner did not have the benefit of EF's confession before releasing the bodies.

I'm wondering if - at trial - we'll come to better appreciate the difficulty of the forensics in this case.

jmho

 

[sunshineray]

We have only heard about the Defense Depos, I don't think the State has made theirs public info. The D included theirs, supposedly, with their Franks Memo.

MOO

But labeled them confidential? I know the D cherry-picked and quoted here and there from some LE's depositions but, IIRC, the entirety of those depositions were not made public?

 

[Emma Peel]

[...]
Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. “We are using every capable process that we have from a scientific perspective as everyone would expect us to, and we will continue to do that until there is nothing left to do. does that include DNA? It does. We have not ruled out the possibility that it is a local person. Every time we clear somebody it gets us closer. We are confident that somewhere in the tips we have valuable information and every time we can eliminate one we can move on to the next.”
[...]
https://cbs4indy.com/news/fbi-inves...ogether-profile-of-suspect-in-delphi-murders/


[...]
Leazenby did say investigators have asked for DNA evidence to be “fast-tracked.”

“I can’t go into the specifics because of the ongoing (investigation), that’s being expedited as best as it can be done,” he said.
[...]
https://fox59.com/news/carroll-coun...investigation-says-dna-evidence-fast-tracked/


imo

Wow! These articles are less than 3 weeks after the murders.
How overwhelmed they must have been! And we can see ISP's high hopes.
ISP had no details on the forensics at this time. It states this in the article.
Alas, the forensics did not pan out as hoped. I sure wish it had. JMHO

 

[Jade]

Just so we are all on the same page as to what the quotes are from the depositions of TL and JH. This is a screenshot from page 129 of the super Franks with citations from the depos. They look to me like straightforward statements, so maybe someone has an idea of how these could be minced words? MOO View attachment 513228

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf -

pdfhost.io

I'm familiar or I wouldn't have commented.

It's in my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

We know from discovery, LE has testified under oath during their depositions that they do not have any DNA linking RA to the crime.

I believe it was said linking RA to the crime scene, that spot. Maybe they have something linking Abby and/or Libby to RA's property? Something besides the gun linked to a bullet was found in the search. 4 Franks motions seem to bellow that they're desperate to get that search thrown out. JMO

 

[Jade]

Wow! These articles are less than 3 weeks after the murders.
How overwhelmed they must have been! And we can see ISP's high hopes.
ISP had no details on the forensics at this time. It states this in the article.
Alas, the forensics did not pan out as hoped. I sure wish it had. JMHO

Do not despair; your hopes need not be dashed, a court trial will reveal. Giving up way too soon for the girls, imo

Wishes continued especially good ones for these murders to be tried and resolved are very much appropriate, imo.

A jury will hear and we shall see.

All imo

 

[Emma Peel]

We only know what has been RELEASED to the public. Here is a link. We must wait until trial for other evidence.

Court documents say investigators found important evidence against Allen at the crime scene — an unspent bullet found between Abby and Libby's bodies. Investigators claim ballistics testing on that bullet matches a gun they found inside Allen's home when they conducted a search warrant. It is some of the most powerful evidence offered by the state to link Allen to the crime scene.

Judge in Delphi murders case to allow evidence found during search of Richard Allen's home

Richard Allen's attorneys claimed the sheriff and others lied to get the search warrant and, therefore, what they found should be thrown out.

www.wthr.com

Thanks.
We all know about the bullet casing.
Perhaps that's what the OP was referring to.