Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[Soulmagent]

What information specifically was debunked from the Franks? Who said in their testimony that the information they provided was false ?

This case is a trif collapsible traveling bad dream .Or any other kind of bad dream.
Public paper trails need to solve a lot of these. Or we can Casey Ant our way out of this as well. IMO.

 

[Salah11]

One day closer towards Justice for Libby and Abby.

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSBM,

You keep stating this, but that's not the way I read the PCA.

I see three juvenile female witnesses. I see one adult female witness. That makes four female eye witnesses to BG.

No where does the PCA state that all four female eyewitnesses were together. It talks about a group of three of them seeing him ... and the one single female seeing him. So four female eye witnesses who saw him.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

That PCA has been a bit of a problem, IMO, from the beginning. For whatever reason, the 4th girl was left out of the PCA. I suppose leaving her out coincides better with the group 3 RA admitted seeing.

Here, in Nick's own words, signed, filed and included as an exhibit: 4 juveniles in a group, 1 adult on the trail and 1 adult driving down the road.

State's Objection to Defendant's Motion to Suppress

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863675/allen-search-warrant-return.pdf

But, there's even problems with that motion; here's a real discrepancy:
19. Investigators went to the residence of the Defendant, located at 1967 North Whiteman Drive, Delphi, Indiana, knocked on the door and executed the search warrant around 5:00P.M. on October 13m, 2022 and the search was complete around 7:09 P.M.

Diener didn't even sign it until 6:37 pm and Liggett executed it at 7:09 pm. (Info also included in the link)

 

[Salah11]

I have just seen this article. I Loath The Sun but it’s enlightening unfortunately so i figured I would post it.

The Sun

The Best for News, Sport, Showbiz, Celebrities

www.the-sun.com

"He would get hung up on and, at a certain point, his family stopped communicating with him, presumably because they did not want to hear what he had to say about these crimes.

"Eventually, he apparently told someone he felt he had to choose his family over God because his family was rejecting him. So he chose their emotional well-being over atonement."

So when he family started to reject him he stopped confessing to what he had done.

 

[MiniMoo]

What are you expecting for someone charged with a double murder of middle schoolers? It's not going to be A Hilton Hotel. He is under round the clock protection for his own safety. He has his own tablet to stay in touch with family and friends. If they don't take his calls, that's not the prison's fault.

He had depression for years before his arrest. And he was hospitalised for that depression before his arrest. So I don't think you can blame it all on his incarceration. I think it is more about guilt and regret, than iy is from isolation. IMO

HARMFUL IMPACT OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT.

December 2020:

"On a given day last year, an estimated 55,000 to 62,500 people had spent the previous 15 days in solitary confinement in state and federal prisons, often in cells smaller than a parking space.
Correctional officials often defend their frequent use of solitary confinement as an effective means of maintaining order and deterring violence and gang activity. But this reliance on solitary ignores the abundance of studies demonstrating the harmful and often long-lasting effects it wreaks on the human mind and body."

FURTHER DOWN:

"The effects of solitary confinement on mental health can be lethal. Even though people in solitary confinement comprise only 6% to 8% of the total prison population, they account for approximately half of those who die by suicide."

And there is more - quite educational to read.

I don't think we are talking about 15 days where Richard Allen is concerned - there is a difference between being kept safe for one's own protection and someone being confined in a prison within a prison for months on end (A-Pod) with limited access to anything in a highly stressful environment (maximum security prison).

I feel it would be detrimental to anyone put in the same situation.

15 days is one thing, but months on end is quite another.

Link:
Solitary Confinement Long Lasting Harm.

 

[girlhasnoname]

When the PCA was allowed to be unsealed I also recall there was an issue with at least one witness who was a minor.

Unsealed documents released in Richard Allen, the Delphi murder suspect's, trial

DELPHI, Ind. (WLFI) — Judge Frances C. Gull has entered an order in State of Indiana vs. Richard M. Allen unsealing a number of documents in that case. The 118

www.wthitv.com

The order did list several documents that will remain sealed:

• Original, unredacted Affidavit for the Probable Cause shall remain sealed as it lists names of juvenile witnesses;

Yes, it was the sister of one of the 3 teenage girls that passed RA walking from Freedom Trails towards MHB.

She may not have even seen RA+BG up close enough to give a statement, may have been lagging about or not paying attention like the older girls who were also minors, just not very young children. Maybe the parents of the this sister pair did not want the much younger child to give a statement for safety or traumatic reasoning? IDK

Four girls passed RA on the Freedom Trails while he was heading to MHB. BB saw RA on MHB's first platform and SC saw RA walking down Old N300.

RA admits to seeing the group of girls and noting one was taller and had brown hair according to CO DD's note and the PCA.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

#Justice4Abby&Libby


Photo by CrimeOnline
March 25, 2022

 

[TTF14]

Antlers,
Ritualisitic sacrifice;
That group of eye witnesses (4 compared to 3);
The hanging;
No blood at the scene;
That the girls were taken from the area and returned;
Their own Defence "witnesses" saying their comments and statements were taken out of context by the Defence;
etc etc etc

And this is all from the Murder Sheet interpreation/reporting on things, correct?

I can't wait for the transcripts so we can know for ourselves exactly what was said and who said it.

IMO MOO

 

[Salah11]

I

And this is all from the Murder Sheets interpreation/reporting on things, correct?

I can't wait for the transcripts so we can know for ourselves exactly what was said and who said it.

IMO MOO

No this was from the different franks that the defense did?

I remember them claiming it was a clean crime scene and a letter F was painted which pointed to Odins.

IMO because I can’t get the Frank’s right now but im sure we have alll read them by now and know the details.

This will do as a starting refresher

'Delphi killer' lawyers claim teens were 'ritualistically sacrificed'

Unsealed legal documents sensationally claim that the two teenagers were killed by members of a pagan Norse religion and white nationalist group called 'Odinism.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[TTF14]

No this was from the different franks that the defense did?

Thank you, but that wasn't my question. I was referring to her claim that that whole list of things was debunked in the 3-day hearings.

 

[vinayd]

Thank you, but that wasn't my question. I was referring to her claim that that whole list of things was debunked in the 3-day hearings.

I think things were debunked by Click & Team who said they couldn’t link any of their persons of interest to the crime scene. Also the blood spatter expert.

 

[TTF14]

The CO accidentally wrote RAs last name as Whiteman, so his report already has known errors.

This LE has a very long track record with losing/erasing videos of interviews. Due to some type of error, video interviews from the entire first 5 days after the murders were completely erased and then the following 70 days is apparently only video and no audio records. They made no record of what interviews they did, no log book, no way of knowing what is missing.

With this track record of missing audio/video, poor evidence organization and errors in reports, it can easily be believed that more unintentional errors can and did occur.

It doesn’t have to be a frame job or intentional. It can just be a mistake. This case is full of them. MOO

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf -

pdfhost.io

The amount of evidence that is....no longer there.....it defies belief.

IMO MOO

 

[Salah11]

Thank you, but that wasn't my question. I was referring to her claim that that whole list of things was debunked in the 3-day hearings.

Live blog: Day 3 of hearings for Delphi murders suspect

For a refresher on the Delphi murders trial and what will be discussed in the hearings, see the “RECAP” section of the live blog. Follow along here for a live observation of the hearing — in and outside of the courthouse. 8:50 p.m. Dueling theories of the case are on full display from the...

www.wishtv.com

According to I-Team 8’s Kody Fisher, prosecutors called a blood spatter expert to refute defenses claims that the blood on tree was a painted rune. The blood was a transfer stain and not painted, but the expert couldn’t say exactly who (Libby or the killer) was responsible for transferring the blood to the tree.

so this is not from The Murder Sheet to just speed along the process of claiming this all came via MS.


Another one

Todd Click, a former Rushville police officer, testified that he’d worked with Murphy on the Rushville angles of the investigation. He gave his theory on the crime from the stand Thursday: That the girls had met the son of the Logansport man on the trail that day, found themselves at a Norse pagan ritual and made fun of it. That, Click said, likely angered those there, who killed them.

McLeland asked Click if it was fair to say “your belief is just a theory.” Click testified that he had uncovered no direct evidence

BBM

‘Safekeeping’ order ends for Richard Allen. Pivotal pretrial testimony in play in Delphi murders

Sometimes chilling testimony Thursday gave differing views of the scene where Abby Williams and Libby German were killed in 2017

substack.com

ETA - my phone battery is about to die so il reply later.

 

[vinayd]

All of this was also discussed on the Defense Diaries, Harvard Lawyer Lee, various news outlets etc.
Not sure why we are doubting the MS when everything they have discussed on Delphi has been proven factual.

 

[ClearAhead]

I have just seen this article. I Loath The Sun but it’s enlightening unfortunately so i figured I would post it.

The Sun

The Best for News, Sport, Showbiz, Celebrities

www.the-sun.com

So when he family started to reject him he stopped confessing to what he had done.

Quite a well written article far beyond that of the typical Sun’s standards.

The Sun

The Best for News, Sport, Showbiz, Celebrities

www.the-sun.com

Cain and Greenlee said they have genuine concerns about whether or not Richard Allen even wants to go to trial, considering the evidence they heard last week.

Summarising their thoughts, Cain said: "I believe it's possible that he confessed a lot and then turned around and said, 'You know what? I still want my family to love me, so I will continue to profess my innocence to achieve that because that's the most important thing right now.'

"I think that's highly possible, but if there's any possibility this man has been dragged through this process because others want him to go through the process when he doesn't, that's an absolute travesty and his wishes are being violated.

"And given that his defense team has not filed anything about his competency, we have to imagine they believe him competent.

"So if he's competent, he should be allowed to say, 'Here's what I want to do' – and I sincerely hope his wishes are being heard and followed."

Allen's legal team has not yet responded to a request for comment.

 

[Salah11]

All of this was also discussed on the Defense Diaries, Harvard Lawyer Lee, various news outlets etc.
Not sure why we are doubting the MS when everything they have discussed on Delphi has been proven factual.

Yes it’s like we playing cat and mouse here. We have all been discussing this for a week and a half.

So some may choose to disregard the facts but it doesn’t change that’s what happened during the 3 day hearings.

IMHO

 

[ClearAhead]

Yes it’s like we playing cat and mouse here. We have all been discussing this for a week and a half.

So some may choice to disregard the facts but it doesn’t change that’s what happened during the 3 day hearings.

IMHO

It’s as if the 3-day hearings didn’t happen. And anybody who reported on them can’t be trusted.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Quite a well written article far beyond that of the typical Sun’s standards.

The Sun

The Best for News, Sport, Showbiz, Celebrities

www.the-sun.com

Cain and Greenlee said they have genuine concerns about whether or not Richard Allen even wants to go to trial, considering the evidence they heard last week.

Summarising their thoughts, Cain said: "I believe it's possible that he confessed a lot and then turned around and said, 'You know what? I still want my family to love me, so I will continue to profess my innocence to achieve that because that's the most important thing right now.'

"I think that's highly possible, but if there's any possibility this man has been dragged through this process because others want him to go through the process when he doesn't, that's an absolute travesty and his wishes are being violated.

"And given that his defense team has not filed anything about his competency, we have to imagine they believe him competent.

"So if he's competent, he should be allowed to say, 'Here's what I want to do' – and I sincerely hope his wishes are being heard and followed."

Allen's legal team has not yet responded to a request for comment.

MOO

Actually, it's off to a bad start with it's lead (thanks to MS); how does this media source its information?
A whole bunch of this article comes from MS; who else?

Does anyone have any verifiable info about RA snubbing a plea deal?

TRIAL TWIST Delphi ‘killer’ Richard Allen snubbing plea deal to ‘avoid disappointing family’ despite confessing to murders 61 times

The Sun

The Best for News, Sport, Showbiz, Celebrities

www.the-sun.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes it’s like we playing cat and mouse here. We have all been discussing this for a week and a half.

So some may choose to disregard the facts but it doesn’t change that’s what happened during the 3 day hearings.

IMHO

Maybe that's because some "facts" aren't really facts.

Blood spatter experts, for instance. Just because one expert arrives at an opinion does not make it a fact.

Study Reports Error Rates for Bloodstain Pattern Analysis

Bloodstains are commonly encountered at scenes of violent crime. Forensic practitioners known as bloodstain pattern analysts seek to answer questions about the manner and sequence of events of a crime by examining the bloodstains left behind. Their methods are largely based on subjective expert...

nij.ojp.gov

Bullet mark expert opinions aren't fact, either.
What other opinions do we take as fact?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I don't put much stock into this news source. I've noticed other people related to this case doing "story packages" with The Sun before. I'm not saying that right, but I mean like 2-3 stories in a row with the same person/interviewee, as if there was some sort of contract.

Sell a story to The Sun – and keep 100% of the cash

HOW TO SELL YOUR STORY – AND CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN – CALL US NOW! Tel: 020 7782 4100 Email: [email protected] Text: 07423 720 250 Whatsapp: 07423 720 250 The Sun is the biggest s…

www.thesun.co.uk

IMO MOO

Thanks for the info.

I didn't know how The Sun (and others) got their US info.
I wonder how much money can be made in selling a story to them.