Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[photographer4]

Yes I've seen that list before. IIRC some of it was even touched on at the hearings? Surprising with all that supposedly happening with RA that his lawyers didn't consider having him evaluated. MO

They may have *considered* it and then decided against it for all we know. I personally agree with them NOT having him evaluated. Nothing good could come of that for him imo. Even for someone without mental health issues - after months in the circumstances he was living in, I would have concerns - once they have him evaluated, don't they then have to supply the Prosecution with the evaluation results - if they are not required to / they cannot be subpoenaed then I might consider it - but overall, not sure its what I would do really.

 

[katydid23]

So was the FBI agent who was granted the search warrant on RL's property wrong?
Excerpt from the article linked. I also included a link to the document.

The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”

FBI agent: Bodies 'moved and staged' in Delphi murders, suspect took clothing

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Investigators believe the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were “moved and staged” at the Delphi murder scene, according to court documents obtained by I-Team 8. READ: See the court documents The revelation is included in a nine-page request for a search warrant...

www.wishtv.com

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/LOGAN-WARRANT-final_Redacted.pdf

Staged makes sense, and 'moved' could mean they were dragged to a different area. But 'moved' does not necessarily mean they left the area for hours and were returned and then killed.[while people all around the were actively searching the area]

 

[photographer4]

Thanks for the explanation- any ideas why somebody would power it back on?

Initially, I wondered if maybe Abby had tried to use it to dial out for help, but given where the phone was found... I don't think its likely unless she was moved post mortem over top of the device...

 

[photographer4]

RA said he was on his phone out on the trails so therefore his phone should tell that same story.

He admitted he was out there between 1.30-3.30pm and so his phone wouldn’t lie.

imo

Perhaps his phone would have told the same story if they'd gotten consent or a warrant to go through his device when he came forward as having been on the bridge that day.... I wonder if they recovered the device he had used that day in the search warrant?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Let’s not be hasty though, because a deer could have found an ejected bullet in RA’s rubbish and then wondered for a few miles and buried it in between two dead bodies for the police to find at a later date. I don’t understand why it then took another 5 years to arrest him and frame him when the Deer had done all the hard work but that’s just a minor quibble.


Does this not sound really plausible?!

Moo

Very plausible.
If only the deer had opposible thumbs, he could have opened the door to a house and watched the news about the unspent bullet and realized what a mess he had made of things. He could have gone to the police department and explained it all by an intense game of deer/human charades and RA would be a free man.
Alas, but for evolution, RA is framed for murder.

But then, RA is still on the bridge and that deer can’t do anything about it.

 

[katydid23]

They may have *considered* it and then decided against it for all we know. I personally agree with them NOT having him evaluated. Nothing good could come of that for him imo. Even for someone without mental health issues - after months in the circumstances he was living in, I would have concerns - once they have him evaluated, don't they then have to supply the Prosecution with the evaluation results - if they are not required to / they cannot be subpoenaed then I might consider it - but overall, not sure its what I would do really.

What if he needed help and treatment? Is it up to his attorneys whether or not he gets needed treatment?

 

[katydid23]

If true of course. This media outlet, although approved, doesn't have a stellar reputation.

But....who else? When will those people be arrested? If we believe that article, then should we believe everything in it? Including that he was in a pedophilia group with at least two others?

IMO MOO

I do think it's possible he was into pedo type activities. But we will have to wait and see. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Abby had a cat. (video of it in an interview with Anna Williams - unapproved source so can't link)

The Pattys had at least one dog. BP talked about LG playing with their puppy the morning before the girls were reported to have gone to the trails. And in one interview I've seen (unapproved source so can't link) with BP, a little fluffy dog is hopping around on LG's bed.

IMO MOO

But all those animals could be checked for a match with any hair found on the bodies. There were neighbours that discussed the forensics people digging in the Allen's backyard. Some have speculated it was the family cat's grave, but I don't know if that is true or not. We will see soon though. IMIO

 

[katydid23]

I have seen nothing official to say that RA has ever asked his lawyers to find him a plea deal, or to change his plea to guilty though. For all the times he has “confessed”, you’d think hat if he were serious, he’d be writing the judge to advise his team isn’t listening to him, or screaming about it in court? Then it would be up to her to either find him unable to assist in his own defense due to mental incompetence or to find him guilty accordingly. Maybe it’s a game for the accused - confess to everyone BUT the judge? I don’T know.. but I put zero faith in those confessions at this point in light of the lack of information about their actual contents to date.

When he confessed to his mother and his wife they angrily told him to STOP talking like that. His wife said "I'm going to call your lawyer" and hung up on him.

So RA quickly got the message that they didn't want to hear it. IMO

 

[Arkay]

Let’s not be hasty though, because a deer could have found an ejected bullet in RA’s rubbish and then wondered for a few miles and buried it in between two dead bodies for the police to find at a later date. I don’t understand why it then took another 5 years to arrest him and frame him when the Deer had done all the hard work but that’s just a minor quibble.


Does this not sound really plausible?!

Moo

Very plausible.
If only the deer had opposible thumbs, he could have opened the door to a house and watched the news about the unspent bullet and realized what a mess he had made of things. He could have gone to the police department and explained it all by an intense game of deer/human charades and RA would be a free man.
Alas, but for evolution, RA is framed for murder.

But then, RA is still on the bridge and that deer can’t do anything about it.

I still vote for the goat in the coat. (Poetry time).

RA is still on the bridge, though. Not the day before, not the day after, but in this heartbreaking period of time. He admitted that long before he was a suspect, or THE suspect, because IMO he had no clue about a BG video.

@susiQ
In all sincerity, I am so sorry for the recent loss of your husband.

I completely grasp what you are saying about your late husband having an abundance of lookalike clothing popular in some rural towns.

I do maintain, however, that no other men wearing that common attire were spotted during the time frame involved. No matter from which direction BG emerged, if there were multiple men in similar clothing passing by, IMO that would have been noted by the other passersby who gave eyewitness testimony.

IMO

 

[susiQ]

I still vote for the goat in the coat. (Poetry time).

RA is still on the bridge, though. Not the day before, not the day after, but in this heartbreaking period of time. He admitted that long before he was a suspect, or THE suspect, because IMO he had no clue about a BG video.

@susiQ
In all sincerity, I am so sorry for the recent loss of your husband.

I completely grasp what you are saying about your late husband having an abundance of lookalike clothing popular in some rural towns.

I do maintain, however, that no other men wearing that common attire were spotted during the time frame involved. No matter from which direction BG emerged, if there were multiple men in similar clothing passing by, IMO that would have been noted by the other passersby who gave eyewitness testimony.

IMO

Thanks @Arkay.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Maybe I’m just tired and can’t think clearly right now. I guess I just don’t feel the witness accounts are all that credible. Muddy, not bloody, tan jacket and all. Things just don’t line up for me. OBG/YBG and his “poofy” hair. For me the witness accounts are just inconsistent and therefore unreliable. JMHO

 

[photographer4]

Well, you do care that BG was there if the accusation is RA was BG, and witnesses (and himself) put RA as the only male on the bridge around the time of the kidnappings. That’s absolutely going to be a concern.

TL can point at a dude that looks like EF all they want, but what matters is BG. And not even the defense is claiming that EF was BG.

If the accusation is that RA is BG, he admits to wearing the same clothing as BG, puts himself in the same area at the same time, and all of this is corroborated by witnesses… you (as the hypothetical attorney) should absolutely be concerned about BG and how your client can’t provide an alternate explanation for someone being on the bridge.

Even RA didn’t see another man that he could shift blame to.

All my opinions.

I see what you're saying, but I"m saying, it doesn't concern me to suggest the video doesn't exist of BG saying G,DTH - when it clearly does. Instead, I concern myself with showing the flaws of the video (quality being one perhaps), the voice not matching (if it doesn't)... the timeline issues as we've discussed and have differing views on... and alternate SODDI theories....

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Just for the record, there was no cat hair listed on the search warrant return. They did take his furry-like fiber hat, though = probably not cat hair. IMO

I wonder if either of the families had pets?

one winter gray hat with furlike fibers.
Page 12

Allen search warrant return

www.documentcloud.org

Snipped:

"Abby loved to camp and swim, and loved being outdoors. She liked riding ATVs with her family on camping trips to Michigan. She loved all animals, especially her cat Bongo. She enjoyed photography and art, drawing and creating little masterpieces that decorated her mother’s home."

Abigail J. Williams - Carroll County Comet

Abigail J. “Abby” Williams, 13, of Delphi, died Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2017. She was born June 23, 2003, in Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., to her mother Anna M. Williams. Abby was an 8th grader at Delphi Community Middle School, where she played saxophone in the school band and was on the volleyball team...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

****If I am not mistaken, Bongo the cat was black.****
Since I am unable to find a link for the color... consider it MOO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

They may have *considered* it and then decided against it for all we know. I personally agree with them NOT having him evaluated. Nothing good could come of that for him imo. Even for someone without mental health issues - after months in the circumstances he was living in, I would have concerns - once they have him evaluated, don't they then have to supply the Prosecution with the evaluation results - if they are not required to / they cannot be subpoenaed then I might consider it - but overall, not sure its what I would do really.

So, Catch-22.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

jmo

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Yeah isn't it wonderful what RA's DT has done under the hat of just being zealous for their client? Let's thrown these men's names out there and call them child murderers. Who cares if it's not true. Who cares if it adversely effects their lives and families. Criminal actions, IMO

Well then, the same reasoning could be applied to RA since he hasn't been found guilty, only accused. RA has been called these names by many, and yes; (*even on here*) Who cares that it has affected his and his families lives? Criminal actions indeed. IMO

 

[photographer4]

What if he needed help and treatment? Is it up to his attorneys whether or not he gets needed treatment?

Since they do not appear to have power of attorney over his actions, then he doesn't *need* their consent to access it. Further, if it were life threatening, then I'm confident the staff would ensure he received whatever life saving measures were required.

 

[katydid23]

Definitely possible, especially if RA isn't the right guy or he was only one of a larger group.

IMO MOO

Why would the killer of 2 young girls turn on one of the dead girl's cell phone and then put it under her feet? Wouldn't they want to destroy it, considering she had it on her and could have recorded the incident? Also it it was off it couldn't be tracked as easily---why turn it on?

It makes no sense to me at all.

 

[katydid23]

Well then, the same reasoning could be applied to RA since he hasn't been found guilty, only accused. RA has been called these names by many, and yes; (*even on here*) Who cares that it has affected his and his families lives? Criminal actions indeed. IMO

The difference is, the homicide investigators have met the legal criteria necessary in order to charge him with a double murder and be held without bond. The same cannot be said for the other 5 or 6 people being named by the defense as the 'real' killers.

 

[katydid23]

BH was tipped in within the first few days, by multiple people. Even one of the victim's own grandmother.

There were SIXTY THOUSAND tips called in. That's a lot of grandmothers, girlfriends, co-workers, nosy neighbours calling in people as suspects.

The defense team did not conjure up this theory. It ALL came from the investigative materials (the ones that didn't disappear) and the Discovery.

And BH was investigated. The Task Force, who knows a whole lot more about it than we do, did not think he was the guilty party and they cleared him and moved on.

The defense team is only guilty of not shutting up about it like the investigators and the prosecutor wanted them to, IMO.

MOO JMO IMO

Of course the D isn't shutting up about it. Their client has been put on that bridge, wearing same clothing as the guy in the notorious Bridge Guy video taken by the victims, seconds before they were forced off the bridge at gunpoint. Of course they are jumping up and down and screaming BH's name. Too bad he has an alibi unlike their client.

 

[katydid23]

Well to me, there were issues with people’s alibis - and some discrepancies in the stories given by some folks to LE that didn’t completely line up with stories given by others. In the absence of an approved source to link to here, I’m left with the only option of saying moo. I think this is one of those things where LE doesn’t know what they don’t know until well, they know. And if the tapes etc were recorded over, it doesn’t help them to be able to back to further investigate. If cell phones were not where they were said to be, if someone had details of the scene that were NOT public yet (franks 1 - a Fb group named BH as the killer, and stated details about an F on LG’s body)….

If we’re going to say there is enough circumstantial evidence to worry about RA, then I’m not sure why the same standard doesn’T apply to worrying about the SODDI folks?

It doesn't body if a FB Group claims there was an F on LG's body, and they 'name' BH as the killer IMO...That is not important unless it is formally and legally corroborated and acted upon by the court. Social Media warriors have no say in who is charged and arrested, thank goodness.

Do you have any idea how many people have been declared 'guilty' by various Facebook Groups and TikTok accounts, before the real perpetrators have ben arrested and convicted. I can think of many, like Sergio, the father of a 5 yr old girl kidnapped from her bedroom. He was castigated by social media sleuths and they ate crow when the true killer was convicted years later.