Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[steeltowngirl]

I'm struggling with OP's link -- error msg that URL is expired? Thanks for help.. x

The link was for Cicero’s testimony. He’s a blood spatter expert. Here is a link.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
It's been speculated that one sock and one pair of underwear was missing. Someone posted the SW the other day on here. I'll have to go back and take a look. We might want to look at RL's search warrant too. Was the search warrant for KK ever released?

Here is the KK PCA.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

Description of items found in SW in here:

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/c...case/531-525e7bc0-cc55-4968-bbd5-3dca1c47b7c0

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/c...case/531-6b2281a3-6ba4-4fc3-b40b-84e9bc8b1d0a

 

[ClearAhead]

RSBM - this. And to be fair, many of us said at the time it was mostly wild speculation. i.e it was evident on its face IMO.



Yes - i.e the Morphew Strategy.

MOO

Yes very true. It’s inconceivable how such fantasy could be written by the D just by taking creative liberty, at the same time claiming they hadn’t received or couldn’t find any reference documentation in discovery. MOO it fits the definition of ‘underhanded’, especially knowing how they ensured it would get publicly released.

Is representing RA really what’s at stake for them or is he merely the means to elevate their own prominence in the legal arena. I’m thinking even confessing his guilt 61 times couldn’t get him a change of plea. MOO

 

[Megnut]

Here is the KK PCA.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

Description of items found in SW in here:

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/c...case/531-525e7bc0-cc55-4968-bbd5-3dca1c47b7c0

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/c...case/531-6b2281a3-6ba4-4fc3-b40b-84e9bc8b1d0a

Search return: headbands

In the snapchat video, AW's hair is in an updo. Perhaps a headband wound into a binder? Missing from the CS? It's a curious thing to have been taken from the RA household since females lived there. Perhaps where they were found was compelling. Trophy style.

jmo

Photo from link

Delphi murders: Indiana Police look for person behind fake social media profile

amp.9news.com.au

 

[Vern]

Search return: headbands

In the snapchat video, AW's hair is in an updo. Perhaps a headband wound into a binder? Missing from the CS? It's a curious thing to have been taken from the RA household since females lived there. Perhaps where they were found was compelling. Trophy style.

jmo

Photo from link

Delphi murders: Indiana Police look for person behind fake social media profile

amp.9news.com.au

I brought up the headbands the other day as possibly linked to Abby due to her hair being in that updo on 13 February. Curious too as to your point about the females living within his household and where they were found. One wouldn't think they just waltzed into the bathroom to snap them up without reason.

Compelling interest in headbands indeed.

 

[photographer4]

Allen's defense attorneys let RA's wife and mother know when the testimony of the girls injuries was coming up and they left the courtroom. Why would they leave the courtroom?

Why wouldn't they? I would actually do this out of respect for the family. I think this was very classy of them regardless of whether they were advised to do so by the lawyers or opted to of their volition.

 

[iamshadow21]

Why wouldn't they? I would actually do this out of respect for the family. I think this was very classy of them regardless of whether they were advised to do so by the lawyers or opted to of their volition.

A lot of people don't have the ability to sit through that kind of testimony regardless of their connection, or lack thereof, to the parties in the case. And court decorum rules require the gallery to sit quietly and unobtrusively through such testimony. If you know you're going to be upset or nauseated by it, then leaving before it begins is absolutely the right thing to do.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

He's an expert in his fields of forensics. It's laid out in the testimony. He also did visit the crime scene with an officer that I believe had been there at the time the scene was still active. Most blood experts that testify at trial are brought in afterwards, not during the scene processing. Henry Lee comes to mind, there are others.

Did you by chance mean this Henry Lee? Judge finds forensic scientist Henry Lee liable for fabricating evidence in a murder case

 

[photographer4]

So is it morally wrong but not legally wrong, so it's OK to publicly accuse some men of murdering young girls, even if morally wrong to do so?

If the D have done exactly this - accused people of murder, who are not on trial, and the Defense has faced no legal consequences to date over this, then it would appear, yes, it is legally acceptable to do exactly this in the way that they did.

 

[photographer4]

The actions of the D are repugnant, no regard for the victims of the crime, worse than ambulance chasers. To think how the FM has been referenced as gospel facts of the crime, absolutely disgusting. MOO

All true, what McLeland write.
BBM

Former Delphi cop thinks suspect is innocent but doesn't believe cult theory

A RETIRED detective who investigated the Delphi murders doesn’t believe Richard Allen is responsible for the infamous killings – but he also doesn’t buy the defense’s claims…

www.the-sun.com

In response, the prosecution has sought to discredit the vast majority of the defense's claims, calling the memorandum "colorful, dramatic, and highly unprofessional."

"It's not completely true," wrote prosecutor Nick McLeland of the defense's claims, adding that the allegations made "are not supported by evidence…

….McLeland further claimed only 13 pages of the defense's 136-page filing was relevant to their request for a Frank's Hearing and the "remaining 90% of the Memorandum outlines its fanciful defense for social media to devour."

In a filing on Tuesday, McLeland once again sought to pour cold water on the claims, calling them "unfounded allegations" supported by "absolutely no proof."

He accused the defense of "consuming the limited resources of the office and this court with repetitive motions that lack any factual basis.”

Red added by me for focus: I am interested to know which of the allegations made by the Defense the State views as untrue, and which are truthful. I hope we find out at the trial.

 

[shonyakay]

Why wouldn't they? I would actually do this out of respect for the family. I think this was very classy of them regardless of whether they were advised to do so by the lawyers or opted to of their volition.

If someone accused my husband or son of something so horrible that I didn't think they did, I would want to know ALL of the details of said crime but I guess that is just me. Also the reason I was bringing it up was because RA stated he was concerned about his family seeing what he'd done. His mother and wife leaving at that time in some way validates his confession(s). Imo.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Bingo and because RA didn't want them to see what he'd done to them.

I wonder if he would have changed his plea if JG had decided to allow the trial to be televised. Would be extremely hard for his wife and mother to avoid seeing or hearing the details of the evidence presented. Jmo

 

[photographer4]

Search return: headbands

In the snapchat video, AW's hair is in an updo. Perhaps a headband wound into a binder? Missing from the CS? It's a curious thing to have been taken from the RA household since females lived there. Perhaps where they were found was compelling. Trophy style.

jmo

Photo from link

Delphi murders: Indiana Police look for person behind fake social media profile

amp.9news.com.au

Question about this: the D stated there was no dna found in the search warrant to connect RA to murders - would that not include AW's hairband thing? DocumentCloud (P.129)

"V- Richard Allen has no ties to Odinism or any Religious Cult and has no ties to the crime scene. Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene.184 Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.185 Liggett has further testified that he is unaware of any evidence that links Richard Allen to any weird religious cult group.186 Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene.187 No data extracted from Richard Allen’s phone connects him to the murders.188 No data extracted from Libby’s phone connected Richard the murders.189 There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.190 There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders.191 There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen’s computers that connects him to the murders.192 There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.193 This section is very short, because there is simply no evidence linking Richard Allen to the murders. However, in his Affidavit for Search Warrant, Liggett attempted to drum up as much connectivity as he could muster between Richard Allen and the murders to convince Judge Diener"

So that hairband could be anybody's - likely one of the ladies in the home owned it imo. I also note, the above footnotes in the quote reference the following:

184 Liggett depo. p. 80, lines 1-3. 185 Liggett depo. p. 80, lines 9-12. 186 Liggett depo. p. 80, lines 13-25 187 Holeman depo. p. 40, lines 14-19. 188 Holeman depo. p. 48, lines 20-25 and p. 49, lines 1-4. 189 Holeman depo. p. 50, lines 13-16. 190 Holeman depo. p. 51, lines 6-8. 191 Holeman depo. p. 53, lines 1-13. 192 Holeman depo. p. 57, lines 19-25 and p. 58, lines 1-4. 193 Holeman depo. p. 58, lines 1-20.p. 130

I do not think the D made the statements up if they took them from depositions of the named investigators. MOOO

 

[photographer4]

If someone accused my husband or son of something so horrible that I didn't think they did, I would want to know ALL of the details of said crime but I guess that is just me. Also the reason I was bringing it up was because RA stated he was concerned about his family seeing what he'd done. His mother and wife leaving at that time in some way validates his confession(s). Imo.

Interesting that they validate the confessions in your mind. That never occurred to me. I just assume they left because they were advised to or did not want to stay for their own personal reasons - either of which is fine imo. I cannot make any link between their actions and those "confessions" at this time. Maybe I can draw that link if more information is revealed at trial about them....

 

[SouthEnd]

Interesting that they validate the confessions in your mind. That never occurred to me. I just assume they left because they were advised to or did not want to stay for their own personal reasons - either of which is fine imo. I cannot make any link between their actions and those "confessions" at this time. Maybe I can draw that link if more information is revealed at trial about them....

"advised to leave" - by whom? I am sure the DT would have warned them that something graphic was about to be shown, but if they are going to publicly declare their support for the person accused of this graphic crime, IMO, they morally shouldn't shy away from seeing those acts.

 

[shonyakay]

Interesting that they validate the confessions in your mind. That never occurred to me. I just assume they left because they were advised to or did not want to stay for their own personal reasons - either of which is fine imo. I cannot make any link between their actions and those "confessions" at this time. Maybe I can draw that link if more information is revealed at trial about them....

Richard Allen stated he was worried about his family seeing the pictures/evidence of his crimes and right before this evidence is introduced Andrew Baldwin speaks with RA's mother and wife and they leave the courtroom. You can't make a link?

 

[photographer4]

Richard Allen stated he was worried about his family seeing the pictures/evidence of his crimes and right before this evidence is introduced Andrew Baldwin speaks with RA's mother and wife and they leave the courtroom. You can't make a link?

No - I have no actual information what what his "confessions" were exactly? The only link I could possibly make in the absence of more info is that RA possibly HAS seen gory crime scene photos and could have been worried for his loved ones to see them - the whole once you see them, you cannot unsee them kinda thing, and I imagine they're horrific for anyone to see. I would want my loved ones not to see them as well, regardless of my guilt or innocence.

 

[photographer4]

"advised to leave" - by whom? I am sure the DT would have warned them that something graphic was about to be shown, but if they are going to publicly declare their support for the person accused of this graphic crime, IMO, they morally shouldn't shy away from seeing those acts.

Maybe the lawyers for RA advised them it would not be prudent for them to stay? I dunno... its just moo that they left of their own accord or were possibly advised to by his lawyers... MOO MOO MOO

 

[shonyakay]

No - I have no actual information what what his "confessions" were exactly? The only link I could possibly make in the absence of more info is that RA possibly HAS seen gory crime scene photos and could have been worried for his loved ones to see them - the whole once you see them, you cannot unsee them kinda thing, and I imagine they're horrific for anyone to see. I would want my loved ones not to see them as well, regardless of my guilt or innocence.

Testimony about his confessions came out in the hearings. Det. Harshman and/or Dr. Wala's testimony transcripts should contain that information.

 

[Vern]

Question about this: the D stated there was no dna found in the search warrant to connect RA to murders - would that not include AW's hairband thing? DocumentCloud (P.129)

"V- Richard Allen has no ties to Odinism or any Religious Cult and has no ties to the crime scene. Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene.184 Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics

.....

I do not think the D made the statements up if they took them from depositions of the named investigators. MOOO

All RS&BBM,

Interesting choice of words on the Defence's part no?? "there was no dna found in the search warrant to connect RA to murders".

They have been very, very careful from the outset to qualify their remarks with "to the crime scene" as well.

Many posters on here have pointed out that specific qualifier does NOT rule out that DNA linking him to the crime may have been found somewhere else though. Like in his house, or in his car, or in a hairband that was seized during the search warrant perhaps??

It also doesn't have to be his DNA that was found ... perhaps a long hair strand that didn't belong to either Abby or Libby was found at the crime scene (kind of like Giglo -- perhaps a female from his household?? Ergo the FGG??). Perhaps a hairband that contained DNA from A or L at his place (which is "not at the crime scene" <--- very tricky that)?

There's numerous options for this possibility that would account for the "to the crime scene" being specifically used by the Defence Team which absolutely is not equal to "there is no DNA to tie him to the crime."

IMO, I think there is hair involved and I state that because of the item (hairbands) seized during RA's search warrant and because "hair" and "animal hair samples" were also included as being "sought" in previous search warrants executed on other now ruled out persons as part of the investigation of the murder of these girls. One specific SW being that of a now cleared and deceased ndividual whose SW is out there to be read (I am not linking it as this man was cleared and I'm quite certain it is included in the form in previous posts from the onset of this investigation).