AB's involvement?

Where do you stand on AB's involvement?

  • AB was completely clueless until the afternoon Zhra was reported missing

    Votes: 9 2.4%
  • AB was oblivous until the morning of the fire

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • Ab was not involved with Zahra's death but completely involved in disposal

    Votes: 19 5.1%
  • AB was soley responsible for what happened to Zahra and her disposal

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • AB killed Zahra

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • AB was involved in the death and cover up of Zahra.

    Votes: 71 18.9%
  • Adam and Elisa were both equally complicit

    Votes: 94 25.1%
  • AB contributed to death by negligence; Involved in cover-up *except* for disposal

    Votes: 14 3.7%
  • AB contributed to Zahra's death through negligence and was involved in the cover up and disposal

    Votes: 138 36.8%
  • Leaning towards AB was in denial- but all depends on what was found in the house.

    Votes: 15 4.0%
  • Other: Not sure how AB is involved. Can't condemn him for Zahra's demise, as yet...I need more infor

    Votes: 35 9.3%
  • I think AB was involved and so was EB...

    Votes: 12 3.2%

  • Total voters
    375
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If their intent was to burn the car with the bedding in it (gas found poured or spilled in the front seat), door standing open, probably somewhat close to the burning brush pile, why would they have called the FD when they did? Why not wait a bit longer till the car was more engaged? Seems to me that they (or one of them) intended to burn that car.

Then again, the door open and the doused gasoline in the car, coupled with the ransom note, certainly would catch the attention of LE, which also could have been their intention. But if this were the case, why were the 4 pieces of burnt items found in the car (if I remember correctly) not completely destroyed? Seems to me that they started to destroy these items and then aborted their plan.

The whole affair seems wacky to me. Very confusing.
 
ITA pug, NONE of it makes any sense. We have some really smart posters here and all our heads together should be able to figure this out but it has us all completely flumoxed.

I for one hate to be flumoxed!
 
I have been away all day, and truly hoped to come home and find that AB had been arrested. If he is innocent, I have salt and pepper ready to season the crow I will be eating. I also have a bottle of fine wine that I am saving to celebrate when he is arrested.
 
referenced via lauriej ~TY

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25360091/index.html

ADAM: "…her mum came running out to tell me she was missing. That’s pretty much…the whole..100% of… what I….completely know so far. Everything else is just (shakes head) little bits and pieces coming."

(too many qualifiers)

bbm

Again with the 100% recollections ...

There's truth hiding in every lie. :doughboy:
 
referenced via lauriej ~TY

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25360091/index.html

ADAM: "…her mum came running out to tell me she was missing. That’s pretty much…the whole..100% of… what I….completely know so far. Everything else is just (shakes head) little bits and pieces coming."

(too many qualifiers)

bbm

Again with the 100% recollections ...

There's truth hiding in every lie. :doughboy:

Some of his quotes do have an unfortunate choice of words don't they. :(
 
Some of his quotes do have an unfortunate choice of words don't they. :(

Sadly, yes.. no matter how hard I hope that the square peg fits in the round hole...

It just doesn't.. IMO.
 
Oh dear, he does tend to leak the truth unintentionally doesn't he?

Yes... the

Adam Baker: "No. There’s no possible way to uh (shrugs shoulders) .... Ever fill the hole left by my daughter."

As I've stated before is bothersome to say the least.

...fill the hole.. bother's me as does the word "left" as IF she had a choice and and left him on purpose...
 
hi guys just to let you know that my mum ran into an old friend from Giru today (where Zahra lived in aust and where I grew up).....they had a big chat about these people.....this girl works in the school Zahra went to..........she said that everyone was schocked when this loud brash tattooed american turned up to stay with him...especially his family and everyone was even more shocked when they got married in giru not long after......apparently EB ruffled quite a lot of feathers at the school as she would go there and tried to take over alot of the schooling etc for Zahra....remember this is a town that took this little girl in their hearts and really looked after her........she also said that alot of people thought that AB was a bit weird.....in that he would turn up to the school and all the fund raising events etc but did not really talk to alot of people or participate in alot of the community events....it was more his mum.......maybe he is just a quiet person who likes to keep to himself......anyhow that is from the locals in giru.
 
If their intent was to burn the car with the bedding in it
(gas found poured or spilled in the front seat), door standing open, probably somewhat
close to the burning brush pile, why would they have called the FD when they did?
Why not wait a bit longer till the car was more engaged?. . .

Until now I have refrained from commenting on the seemingly fake car burning attempt.
To me it seemed more like a prop in a play than anything else and so not worthy of
too much time and thought.

Not knowing all the details of evidence concerning this fire it would be very easy to
miss the reason for the car burning so I hesitate to comment.

However if you don't mind I will toss a couple of crazy guesses out:

The car burning attempt was a prop in a play, the 'kidnapping of Zahra play',
yet who were they trying to mislead?

These two had to know they would be investigated for the murder of Zahra.
They aren't totally stupid and so they also knew they could easily be charged
with murder in the case.

If the goal is to beat a murder charge your best odds are to plant reasonable
doubt in the mind of the jury. From their viewpoint fooling LE would be nice but
not necessary. In fact they probably have seen a few CSI episodes and
counted heavily on the burning vehicle being tested due to the ransom note.

If the car had been allowed to get too involved in burning then something
might have been destroyed, evidence that would tie in to the kidnapping note
and thus to the 'kidnappers.' And if/when they are charged with murder this evidence
could be pointed at in trial to seem to point towards some unknown kidnappers having
set the fire in an attempt to cover up that the kidnappers had already
done evil to this child.

Such a play prop does not have to totally fool anyone. Maybe it just needs to plant
legal grounds for reasonable doubt in a few minds on any jury.

Summary:
So at the least they wanted to fool someone by having planted evidence in the car
which presence tied it to the car
which was linked to the ransom note which, in turn, pointed to unknown 'kidnappers'
and all this to lead thoughts away from looking closely at the immediate family.

So were they trying to fool LE or trying to influence a jury member later on
by planting legal grounds for 'reasonable doubt'?

To quote part of a song I once heard, "Who do they think they're foolin'?"
Either way the thing seems like a prop in a play.

The script:
'. . . "I don't know if they set a fire in the yard to distract us to go out and then they
snuck in the door, or, I don't know," he continued. "Somebody had put gas in my
company's truck that I drive for work. . . .'
http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-zahra-baker-911-tapes-released/story?id=11916819

The link to 'kidnappers':
'. . . It was then that police discovered a ransom note addressed to Adam Baker's boss
on the windshield of Baker's car. . . .'
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7785427

Suggestive evidence?:
'. . . It was also revealed today that police dogs searching for the missing girl have
detected the smell of human remains on two cars at her North Carolina home. . .'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-human-remains-home-missing-Zahra-Baker.html

I do not know what else was found in the vehicle.
 
I don't know where AB was. because -

I don't know when AB last set eyes on his living child (100%, genuinely, tuesday, thursday, 2am, etc.)

I don't know when (that night? Days prior? A week before?) the dismemberment happened.

I don't know where in the home the dismemberment happened. (my guess would be bathtub, only logical)
I don't know how much cleanup was necessary in Z's room as I don't know cause of death. The drywall removal suggest evidence but I do not know what it is. I do not know if painting was done in Z's room to cover up evidence on said drywall although it has certainly been SPECULATED about by me and others. If painting was done, IMO that could easily have been done by a lone person during the day while another was out of the house. (OT but did ya'll see that carppy paint job in Z's room? :eek: )

Therein lies a lot of my problem in being able to figure out who knew what when.

That's where I'm at as well..I don't know AB's timeline of where he was and when. When was the last time he physically saw his daughter, Zahra? Not just peeked in on her but physically spoke to her? What happened between September 25th and October 9th? Who other than EB saw Zahra?

As far as her being dismembered, I'm thinking it happened in her room on her mattress, which is why it was dumped and so important for LE to find. The walls taken apart was due to blood evidence on them but after death the blood wouldn't flow, would it? I also feel this might be something this evil stepmomster did all on her own or did she have someone else help her.

I was flabbergasted to learn, EB had AB believing AY was her brother, why??? Why would AY go along with that and how much more would he do for EB?? This is so convoluted since we truly don't know the "real" details, all speculation since LE has not come out and said exactly what they believe went on...poor Zahra didn't stand a chance in the clutches of this stepmomster! All I know is I want everyone involved in Zahra's demise punished to the full extent of the law, with no rewards for telling the truth...JMHO

Justice for Zahra
 
I can't see the dismemberment occurring on her bed in her bedroom.

1). It would have created a huge mess to have to clean up.
2). If dismemberment occurred in her bedroom on the mattress, why then did police find it neccesary to remove floor, sink, and plumbing from bathroom and kitchen? They dismember Zahra in the bedroom, and then for no logical reason, haul parts of her off to the bathroom and/or kitchen?
3). AB and EB may not be rocket scientists, but I surely think they have at least enough intelligence to know that, if you are going to dismember a body, the best place to do that would be somewhere where there are easily cleaned surfaces...like a bathroom or kitchen.

JMO
 
I can't see the dismemberment occurring on her bed in her bedroom

1). It would have created a huge mess to have to clean up.
2). If dismemberment occurred in her bedroom on the mattress, why then did police find it neccesary to remove floor, sink, and plumbing from bathroom and kitchen? They dismember Zahra in the bedroom, and then for no logical reason, haul parts of her off to the bathroom and/or kitchen?
3). AB and EB may not be rocket scientists, but I surely think they have at least enough intelligence to know that, if you are going to dismember a body, the best place to do that would be somewhere where there are easily cleaned surfaces...like a bathroom or kitchen.

JMO

And it did...they repainted the room, didn't they?

Why was it so important to get that mattress from the dump? They took the walls and plumbing due to seeing if there is blood there, who's blood for that is where the clean up occured...washing of hands, took a shower...If Zahra was already deceased the blood would not splurt out all over the place...once the heart stops beating, blood doesn't flow...JMHO


Justice for Zahra
 
I agree that the bedroom would have been a very unlikely, illogical choice for location of dismemberment. I believe the matress was discarded because it was soiled with blood from a violent incident or from bodily fluids voided after death. I think it more reasonable to assume that the bathtub would be the choice for where dismemberment would have ocurred.

not to get too graphic, but that is an extrememly messy and difficult process. Anyone who has ever cut up their own whole chicken rather than pay extra for precut at the grocery will tell you, disarticulating bone and tendon is not an easy task. If that chicken cutting task is translated into a 10 year old size human the process would be awkward, difficult and very messy without even taking into account the horror of it. The bathtub is the only place that makes sense to my mind.

Just my own :twocents:
 
And it did...they repainted the room, didn't they?

Why was it so important to get that mattress from the dump? They took the walls and plumbing due to seeing if there is blood there, who's blood for that is where the clean up occured...washing of hands, took a shower...If Zahra was already deceased the blood would not splurt out all over the place...once the heart stops beating, blood doesn't flow...JMHO


Justice for Zahra


We'll just have to agree to disagree about the dismemberment occuring in Zahra's bedroom. :)
 
GRAPHIC
I agree that the dismemberment probley didnt take place in Zs bedroom. Too messy of a thing but what if she was dismembered in the tub ,kitchen??? Placed into bags and them stored in Zs bed until the job was done. If a bag of remains was tossed on the bed splatter could have gotten on the wall, drips from remains in the bags could have soaked into the mattress and a bag could have been sat on the floor. That could explain all the holes LE cut in the wall and floor and the reason for getting rid of the mattress. Just a thought.
 
Please edit your posts to cut all reference to the opinions of others, please. Be nice, and don't argue, and don't belittle theories just because you don't personally hold them.

If you don't edit them or can't because of the edit window, I will be around shortly to do them for you.

ETA: If you find your post has a reading you did not intend, and you can no longer edit it, please hit the "alert" on your own post and let us know how you wish it to be edited. Otherwise, we will do the edits for you, usually just cutting the parts that violate the rules of civility we wish to maintain in these discussions. However, sometimes when the threads are super-busy, mods will not have the time to contact anyone for co-operation and will make the executive decision, so try not to offend anyone when you post, please.

Thank you for your co-operation - always appreciated.
 
referenced via lauriej ~TY

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25360091/index.html

ADAM: "…her mum came running out to tell me she was missing. That’s pretty much…the whole..100% of… what I….completely know so far. Everything else is just (shakes head) little bits and pieces coming."

(too many qualifiers)

bbm

Again with the 100% recollections ...

There's truth hiding in every lie. :doughboy:

"little bits and pieces":eek:

Just a matter of time before this guy cracks. Mama's going to have to hold his hand real tight at the defense table. LOL.
 
Some of his quotes do have an unfortunate choice of words don't they. :(

I know it amazes me! Like he is telling the story with choice selected phasing in the convesations. He has done it all over the place. Even the 911 call. With the word Brooding . Defined as preoccupied with depressing, morbid, or painful memories or thoughts: a brooding frame of mind.
2. cast in subdued light so as to convey a somewhat threatening atmosphere: Dusk fell on the brooding hills.

I thought he might be doing it on purpose. That would impy a whole different level to his personality.

Someone reasure me and tell me in no way could he be doing it on purpose.
It really seems picking apart what he says would lead to more clues as to what happen.
 
I know it amazes me! Like he is telling the story with choice selected phasing in the convesations. He has done it all over the place. Even the 911 call. With the word Brooding . Defined as preoccupied with depressing, morbid, or painful memories or thoughts: a brooding frame of mind.
2. cast in subdued light so as to convey a somewhat threatening atmosphere: Dusk fell on the brooding hills.

I thought he might be doing it on purpose. That would impy a whole different level to his personality.

Someone reasure me and tell me in no way could he be doing it on purpose.
It really seems picking apart what he says would lead to more clues as to what happen.

I don't know how reassuring you'll find this, but my personal feeling is that he simply doesn't realize how bizarre his words seem, given the circumstances.

Of course, he should realize that. The fact that he doesn't just makes me feel that he's completely self-absorbed and doesn't think of his daughter, or the people who care about her, at all.

JMO
 
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