GUILTY Afghanistan - US Soldier guns down 16 civilians, 2012 Kandahar massacre

[Peliman]

I really dislike US insanity laws. They should be changed.

Insanity does exist but many do attempt to use it as an excuse for murder or violent crime. I worked 14 years in mental health, I started working in neurological, moved to behavioral and finally on to criminally insane. I've seen both, those that were truly insane, psychotic, those that were there to beat charges and pet their invisible dog. This has been a number of years ago but I sometimes think about getting back into the field.

 

[MsFacetious]

Insanity does exist but many do attempt to use it as an excuse for murder or violent crime. I worked 14 years in mental health, I started working in neurological, moved to behavioral and finally on to criminally insane. I've seen both, those that were truly insane, psychotic, those that were there to beat charges and pet their invisible dog. This has been a number of years ago but I sometimes think about getting back into the field.

We also have to remember, that in addition to everything that comes along with 3 previous deployments...
The possible mental health issues there, he also had a traumatic brain injury.

I have seen some scary things from people with brain injuries. This guy never should have been deployed again after that accident. :twocents:


Many years ago 2 of my female cousins and one of their husbands went hiking with a lifelong family friend.
The two girls ultimately decided to quit early and go back to the car. A bit later so did the family friend.
The husband kept hiking, he wanted to reach the top.

When he got back to the parking lot a couple of hours later, the car was gone.
A few days later they found the girl's bodies. They hadn't been assaulted at all, simply shot and killed.

It was MY family who consistently said "This is NOT like him, it doesn't make sense, he wouldn't do this. Something is WRONG here."

They were right. Something was wrong. He had a brain tumor in his frontal lobe. :twocents:

 

[Peliman]

We also have to remember, that in addition to everything that comes along with 3 previous deployments...
The possible mental health issues there, he also had a traumatic brain injury.

I have seen some scary things from people with brain injuries. This guy never should have been deployed again after that accident. :twocents:


Many years ago 2 of my female cousins and one of their husbands went hiking with a lifelong family friend.
The two girls ultimately decided to quit early and go back to the car. A bit later so did the family friend.
The husband kept hiking, he wanted to reach the top.

When he got back to the parking lot a couple of hours later, the car was gone.
A few days later they found the girl's bodies. They hadn't been assaulted at all, simply shot and killed.

It was MY family who consistently said "This is NOT like him, it doesn't make sense, he wouldn't do this. Something is WRONG here."

They were right. Something was wrong. He had a brain tumor in his frontal lobe. :twocents:

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your cousins. Yes I'm familiar with frontal lobe disorders which usually manifest as rage state or seizures. It takes a good deal of time in observation to notice it as frontal lobe disorder. The only drug I'm aware of the crosses the blood/brain barrier to the frontal lobes is Tegretol.

I await more information about the incident, there's lots to absorb here.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Obama has expressed his shock and sadness and extended his condolences to the families of the victims. But he has also said the horrific episode would not speed up plans to pull out foreign forces, despite increasing opposition at home to the war in Afghanistan. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57395961/afghan-officials-fired-upon-at-site-of-massacre/

Of course not. There are billions of dollars still to be spent.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

What more needs to be said? It is long past time for the United States and its NATO allies to withdraw with all deliberate speed from Afghanistan, rather than proceed on its present course: negotiating a long-term "memorandum of understanding" that transfer the formalities of the occupation to the Afghans while leaving private American military contractors - 21st-century mercenaries - as the outlaw governance structure after most combat forces withdraw by the end of 2014.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/2012313101425112372.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The United States seems incapable of grasping the pathologies it has inflicted on its own citizenry. The disgusting 2004 pictures of American soldiers getting their kicks from torturing and humiliating naked Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib should have made clear once and for all to the leaders and the public that it was time to bring American troops home, and keep them there if we cared for their welfare. What the pattern exhibits is not only a criminal indifference to the wellbeing of "others", but a similar disregard of the welfare of our collective selves. The current bellicose Republican presidential candidates calling for attacks on Iran favours taking a giant step along the road - a road that is heading towards an American implosion. And the Obama presidency is only a half step behind: counseling patience, but itself indulging war-mongering - whether for its own sake, or on behalf of Israel, is unclear.

President Obama was recently quoted as saying of Afghanistan: "Now is the time for us to transition."

No, it isn’t. "Now is the time to leave." And not only for the sake of the Afghan people, but for the sake of the American people Obama was elected to serve.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/2012313101425112372.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Ben Farmer on the Afghan farmer who lost eleven family members including his wife and eight children, when a rogue American soldier attacked his home in the middle of the night and opened fire:

Abdul Samad and a son survived because they were visiting a nearby town, but he came home to find his wife, four daughters and four sons had been killed in the shooting spree.

A total of 16 Afghans were killed in the attack during the early hours of Sunday morning as the soldier left his base and broke into three houses, methodically executing the occupants.

Mr Samad, 60, said he had supported the United States' offensive against the Taliban, but now demanded the American forces leave his country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9139876/Afghanistan-shooting-live.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I'm not so sure the were dispatched immediately after being notified. Generally dusk to dawn operations are not made by wheeled vehicles on roads. Foot patrols and tracked vehicles are normally off the beaten path.

Each day when dawn breaks, usually a road patrol clears all roads for mines and IUD's placed during the night before clearing military traffic.

Second, just because the base got a radio or phone call, they don't know if an ambush is awaiting. I imagine it took time to get verification and clearance to leave the safe area by vehicle or foot patrol.

It appears it took them a long time to do nothing. The guy walked a total of 4 miles or so, broke into numerous homes, shot all kinds of people and walked back to the base and turned himself in before the search party went looking for him.

............................................................

U.S. officials said the soldier abruptly walked off a combat outpost about 3 a.m. Sunday local time. Allen said that an Afghan soldier standing watch reported the unauthorized departure but that others on the base could not mobilize quickly enough to track down the missing American before the attack, the deadliest on civilians by a U.S. service member during the decade-long Afghanistan war.

“There was a head count done amongst the American soldiers; [they] recognized that he was missing, unaccounted for,” Allen said. “We put together a search party right away, and it was as that search party was forming that we began to have indications of the outcome of his departure.”

Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta said the soldier returned to the base on his own, admitted what he had done and surrendered.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...s/2012/03/12/gIQAFRJO8R_story.html?tid=pm_pop


I want to add he walked a mile to the first village and a mile to the second one according to reports with a stop in-between and then back which would make it 4 miles.

 

[annalia]

And what would have that accomplished except he would have been in US and still allowed to carry arms? I wish we could just give him to Afghans and let them put him on trial.

I hope I'm just reading this wrong because it's very upsetting to read.

He already went through three tours of duty, we haven't heard of any incidents so we can say that he completed all those missions. So we should just throw soldiers away after they suffer a traumatic brain injury? We don't want any soldier that suffered any brain injuries on US soil so we'll just keep sending them into combat?

 

[nursebeeme]

What more needs to be said? It is long past time for the United States and its NATO allies to withdraw with all deliberate speed from Afghanistan, rather than proceed on its present course: negotiating a long-term "memorandum of understanding" that transfer the formalities of the occupation to the Afghans while leaving private American military contractors - 21st-century mercenaries - as the outlaw governance structure after most combat forces withdraw by the end of 2014.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/2012313101425112372.html

respectfully... this source is aljazeera (imhoo not a good source on NATO plans for military draw down in Afghanistan) just my opinion though

moo moo moo:moo:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

respectfully... this source is aljazeera (imhoo not a good source on NATO plans for military draw down in Afghanistan) just my opinion though

moo moo moo:moo:

A few years ago I would have agreed with with you 100 percent on the trustworthiness of aljazeera. But I have watched their news coverage of the spring uprisings and found them to be fair. They have lots of reporters all over the world and are trying to break into the US markets.

I tend to agree with their summation of the NATO plans because I have read reports that is what is going on in Iraq now after the pullout of troops. Blackwater like mercenaries have taken over protecting our people and interest in Iraq with police like powers.

Aljazeera also covers a lot of stories you never see or hear about in the USA because of low interest but are still important trying to understand the world.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The suspect, a staff sergeant in his 30s, is based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord near Tacoma, Washington. He belongs to the 3rd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, according to a congressional source not authorized to speak publicly.

He was trained as a sniper and learned to kill from 800 meters away. The Army has not yet identified him.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/13/world/asia/afghanistan-shooting-scene/?hpt=hp_t1

He was a highly trained staff sergeant.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

LOL LOL if a congressional source is not authorized to speak publicly who in the heck is? Who can muzzle a congressman?

 

[MsFacetious]

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your cousins. Yes I'm familiar with frontal lobe disorders which usually manifest as rage state or seizures. It takes a good deal of time in observation to notice it as frontal lobe disorder. The only drug I'm aware of the crosses the blood/brain barrier to the frontal lobes is Tegretol.

I await more information about the incident, there's lots to absorb here.

Temozolomide (Temodar) is the chemo (pill) for brain cancer that will cross the blood/brain barrier.
HUGE deal for brain cancer patients. :woohoo:

I believe 5% of drugs will cross the BBB but those two are the only ones I'm personally aware of. :twocents:

 

[MsFacetious]

I am speechless. lease:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/13/world/asia/afghanistan-shooting-scene/?hpt=hp_t1

He pulled a boy from his sleep and shot him in the doorway, according to one witness.
Then he came back inside the room and put a gun in the mouth of one child and stomped on another.

Streams of dark crimson smeared the drab surroundings and dampened the parched earth. Shell casings littered the ground.

---------------------------

The soldier dragged some of the bodies out and set them afire.

With carnage behind him, the soldier left.

The search party formed to find the missing soldier came across the suspect, who turned himself in, the military said.
He is at the Kandahar detention facility, about 15 miles away, as the United States decides whether to send him back home.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-death-penalty-or-no-trial-at/#ixzz1p1n7jT3r

Military officials also say the suspected shooter is not talking and is generally not cooperating with investigators.
He has invoked his rights to an attorney, but it's not clear yet whether he has retained one, either private or military.

 

[Nova]

I really dislike US insanity laws. They should be changed. In my opinion, a dangerous individual should not be send to a nice mental hospital from which doctors can release this individual after they declare him "cured."

A. You've obviously never been in a hospital for the criminally insane if you think it is "nice".

B. In the U.S., successful insanity pleas have steadily declined since the 1950s:

...(I)ncreased coverage gives the impression that the defense is widely used, but this is not the case. According to an eight-state study, the insanity defense is used in less than 1% of all court cases and, when used, has only a 26% success rate. Of those cases that were successful, 90% of the defendants had been previously diagnosed with mental illness.

So that's a success rate of 0.26 of all criminal cases, or one in 400. (This is all cases, not murders. So some, maybe most, of successful insanity defenses are for minor crimes. And that figure is for the United States. Laws and rates vary in other countries.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity_defense#The_Insanity_Defense_in_the_United_States

 

[legalmania]

LOL LOL if a congressional source is not authorized to speak publicly who in the heck is? Who can muzzle a congressman?

Oh I know this one a lobbyist.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I just saw on CNN that they have the guy leaving the base on video and him coming back to the base on video.

The army is also leaking that alcohol was found in the bay area where this guy lived.

Really strange how they are leaking all this stuff out about him and events and still not telling his name.

 

[jjenny]

A. You've obviously never been in a hospital for the criminally insane if you think it is "nice".

B. In the U.S., successful insanity pleas have steadily declined since the 1950s:



So that's a success rate of 0.26 of all criminal cases, or one in 400. (This is all cases, not murders. So some, maybe most, of successful insanity defenses are for minor crimes. And that figure is for the United States. Laws and rates vary in other countries.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity_defense#The_Insanity_Defense_in_the_United_States

If it were not "nice" why exactly would anyone plea legal insanity? Maybe it's not super nice but I don't doubt it beats prison. We also don't set a duration of time legally insane individuals spend in the hospital which means they can be let out after a short period of time if doctors deem them "cured." I am in favor of sending these legally insane individuals into prisons after doctors deem them cured instead of setting them free.

 

[jjenny]

I hope I'm just reading this wrong because it's very upsetting to read.

He already went through three tours of duty, we haven't heard of any incidents so we can say that he completed all those missions. So we should just throw soldiers away after they suffer a traumatic brain injury? We don't want any soldier that suffered any brain injuries on US soil so we'll just keep sending them into combat?

The only one I was talking about is the individual accused of the atrocities. I personally doubt that bringing this particular individual into the US would have ensured he was going to do well.