GUILTY AK - Kristy Manzanares, 39, killed aboard Emerald Princess, Juneau, 25 July 2017 *husband arrested*

[pamelado2]

Has anyone been reading the Cruise Critic thread besides me? This is maybe more accurate as far as the time line:
"I'm curious as to when the first call was received by Passenger Services. My BIL (on the ship 2 cabins away) believes he made his call around 8:45. He also recalls a security guard WALKING down the hall after quite a bit of time had gone by. Perhaps, this wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been. Thoughts?"

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Lilibet]

Sounds like his behavior that night was the last straw and perhaps her declaring the wish for a divorce was an excited utterance. Could he have had a drinking problem? I don't believe that we have proof that she was previously a DV victim. My husband's brother beat and stabbed his gf when she broke up with him, but up to then he had NEVER EVER laid a hand on her. He had substance issues. Anyway. What a horror. The girls, her family. On a trip if a lifetime. I cannot imagine the issues these poor people are going to be dealing with forever.

I think if this fight had occurred at home, the wife would be missing right now. I don't believe for one minute he planned this, even though it still can be premeditated even if he thought to do it 5 minutes before.

Sorry to babble. This one is bizarre.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

BBM

I agree that possibly she said she wanted a divorce in the heat of the argument because of how he was acting. I doubt she planned specifically to ask for it on this trip, if at all, and I don't think he planned in advance to kill her. It appears to be a terrible fight that escalated to physical violence ending in death. Attempting to throw her overboard was still part of the rage IMO.

Whether or not he had an ongoing drinking problem, I do believe alcohol played a starring role in this tragedy and my heart breaks for what the children likely witnessed. They may even hold their mother and themselves partly responsible and that's a terrible burden to carry.

Here's why I say that. True confessions, and I'm speaking strictly from the point of view of a young and early teen child, not as an adult. My father was an alcoholic. He and my mother used to get into horrible fights, sometimes physical, in front of me. He was not normally a violent man and neither was my mother. But in the heat of the arguments, they said terrible things to each other and it could escalate to pushing and shoving.

As a child I could see the "tipping point" and knew that if my Mom had not made one more comment to have "the last word" my Dad would not have gotten physical. I was more upset with my Mom than my Dad because she wasn't drunk and "should" have had more control. If he had killed her, I would have known it could happen. I would have been angry at both of them and I might even have blamed my long-suffering Mom as much as or more than my Dad, whose drinking I feared and hated. And I would have blamed myself too, because even though I tried to get between them and screamed for them to stop, they didn't.

For the record, neither one of them was a terrible person or a bad parent. They were both decent people, well-liked, with many good qualities, but overrun by my father's alcoholism. I felt deeply loved and was raised well by both, in different ways. There were many good times. I suspect that's true in this family too, whether there was an alcohol problem or not.

Again, I'm speaking only as a traumatized child witnessing ugly fights turn violent, not in any way as a victim-blaming adult. No child should have to deal with this ugliness. I pray that this isn't what these girls witnessed and that they don't have these awful mixed up feelings about their parents. They will need to get counseling, no matter what. This tragedy is too heavy to carry without it.
JMO

 

[SeesSeas]

I try to understand others rather than simply project my opinions.

Many of us WS’ers (likely MOST) have been victims of tragic human behavior. My interest and curiosity in this human phenomenon is what attracted me to WS. We sleuth in an attempt to solve a crime, and we vent about how horrible all of these crimes are. But I am fascinated and perplexed that not many of us seem to focus on ‘why’ the crimes occur. Murders, rape, torture and terrorism occur every day and will continue to occur no matter how good we sleuth or how passionate we vent.

Good people sometimes behave badly. And sometimes that behavior is deadly.

The philosophical synopsis of what I gathered from what Gaius wrote is this. . .
For a person to kill another person, it is an accident of human nature.
Revengeful intentional homicide or rage-induced unintentional homicide. . . these are accidents of human nature.

Despite the facts that human history is replete with cases of killings since the dawn of time, any time a person kills another person, it is a tragedy. The sacred books of the major religions are replete of narration, justification, and condemnation of killings of humans by humans.

E.g., the story of Cain's murder of Abel and its consequences as told in Genesis 4:1-18. This same story is interpreted by Jews and Christians in a very different ways, telling that even amongst humans "this" killing does not mean the same thing!

I am not elaborating too much on this but for those who know what I am alluding to, please, notice your childhood teaching about the Bereshit’s firsts of the 54 Torah portions: (1) Cain said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” & (2) God said (to Cain), “I shall put a mark on your forehead so any would be killers will know your death will be avenged seven-fold.”

Also, in the Koran you may read on what to do about those who are not Muslim “Koran (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.”

Please, do not construe my post as inciting hatred of religions, or someone’s religion especially etc. My purpose is to highlight HUMAN NATURE. If the old quotations above convinced you that even the most morals and most religious of us do kill on purpose, then I convinced you that it is in the human nature also to kill by accident!

A husband killed his wife because "She wouldn't stop laughing at me". I see a tragic tragic accident due to human nature. Nothing else. It is my hope those who love the killed woman will find peace in their heart.

I do not have to hope but I know that as long as this man lives, he will NEVER find peace in his heart after he killed the woman who gave him his three daughters. Never will that man stop wondering “what have I done?” when he lies awake at night missing her.

If you hate that man, as some of the posts suggest, then hate human nature. Hate yourself. This is a tragic accident that could happen at anyone’s household, God forbids, as long as they are humans.

 

[flourish]

BBM

I agree that possibly she said she wanted a divorce in the heat of the argument because of how he was acting. I doubt she planned specifically to ask for it on this trip, if at all, and I don't think he planned in advance to kill her. It appears to be a terrible fight that escalated to physical violence ending in death. Attempting to throw her overboard was still part of the rage IMO.

Whether or not he had an ongoing drinking problem, I do believe alcohol played a starring role in this tragedy and my heart breaks for what the children likely witnessed. They may even hold their mother and themselves partly responsible and that's a terrible burden to carry.

Here's why I say that. True confessions, and I'm speaking strictly from the point of view of a young and early teen child, not as an adult. My father was an alcoholic. He and my mother used to get into horrible fights, sometimes physical, in front of me. He was not normally a violent man and neither was my mother. But in the heat of the arguments, they said terrible things to each other and it could escalate to pushing and shoving.

As a child I could see the "tipping point" and knew that if my Mom had not made one more comment to have "the last word" my Dad would not have gotten physical. I was more upset with my Mom than my Dad because she wasn't drunk and "should" have had more control. If he had killed her, I would have known it could happen. I would have been angry at both of them and I might even have blamed my long-suffering Mom as much as or more than my Dad, whose drinking I feared and hated. And I would have blamed myself too, because even though I tried to get between them and screamed for them to stop, they didn't.

For the record, neither one of them was a terrible person or a bad parent. They were both decent people, well-liked, with many good qualities, but overrun by my father's alcoholism. I felt deeply loved and was raised well by both, in different ways. There were many good times. I suspect that's true in this family too, whether there was an alcohol problem or not.

Again, I'm speaking only as a traumatized child witnessing ugly fights turn violent, not in any way as a victim-blaming adult. No child should have to deal with this ugliness. I pray that this isn't what these girls witnessed and that they don't have these awful mixed up feelings about their parents. They will need to get counseling, no matter what. This tragedy is too heavy to carry without it.
JMO

That's really insightful and introspective. I truly appreciate your sharing.

 

[Elainera]

I try to understand others rather than simply project my opinions.

Many of us WS’ers (likely MOST) have been victims of tragic human behavior. My interest and curiosity in this human phenomenon is what attracted me to WS. We sleuth in an attempt to solve a crime, and we vent about how horrible all of these crimes are. But I am fascinated and perplexed that not many of us seem to focus on ‘why’ the crimes occur. Murders, rape, torture and terrorism occur every day and will continue to occur no matter how good we sleuth or how passionate we vent.

Good people sometimes behave badly. And sometimes that behavior is deadly.

The philosophical synopsis of what I gathered from what Gaius wrote is this. . .
For a person to kill another person, it is an accident of human nature.
Revengeful intentional homicide or rage-induced unintentional homicide. . . these are accidents of human nature.

That's how I understood it too.

 

[pamelado2]

I try to understand others rather than simply project my opinions.

I believe that's what we all try to do. But just because we understand what another person is saying, doesn't mean we agree. Which to me is the beauty of a discussion board.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[ninij9]

BBM

I agree that possibly she said she wanted a divorce in the heat of the argument because of how he was acting. I doubt she planned specifically to ask for it on this trip, if at all, and I don't think he planned in advance to kill her. It appears to be a terrible fight that escalated to physical violence ending in death. Attempting to throw her overboard was still part of the rage IMO.

Whether or not he had an ongoing drinking problem, I do believe alcohol played a starring role in this tragedy and my heart breaks for what the children likely witnessed. They may even hold their mother and themselves partly responsible and that's a terrible burden to carry.

Here's why I say that. True confessions, and I'm speaking strictly from the point of view of a young and early teen child, not as an adult. My father was an alcoholic. He and my mother used to get into horrible fights, sometimes physical, in front of me. He was not normally a violent man and neither was my mother. But in the heat of the arguments, they said terrible things to each other and it could escalate to pushing and shoving.

As a child I could see the "tipping point" and knew that if my Mom had not made one more comment to have "the last word" my Dad would not have gotten physical. I was more upset with my Mom than my Dad because she wasn't drunk and "should" have had more control. If he had killed her, I would have known it could happen. I would have been angry at both of them and I might even have blamed my long-suffering Mom as much as or more than my Dad, whose drinking I feared and hated. And I would have blamed myself too, because even though I tried to get between them and screamed for them to stop, they didn't.

For the record, neither one of them was a terrible person or a bad parent. They were both decent people, well-liked, with many good qualities, but overrun by my father's alcoholism. I felt deeply loved and was raised well by both, in different ways. There were many good times. I suspect that's true in this family too, whether there was an alcohol problem or not.

Again, I'm speaking only as a traumatized child witnessing ugly fights turn violent, not in any way as a victim-blaming adult. No child should have to deal with this ugliness. I pray that this isn't what these girls witnessed and that they don't have these awful mixed up feelings about their parents. They will need to get counseling, no matter what. This tragedy is too heavy to carry without it.
JMO

Lilibet your personal experiences give an insight to what the children may have been subjected to and it makes me sad for them (and you[emoji176]). My mother grew up with an alcoholic father and my grandparents fought alot. It has shaped her whole life.

I am not suggesting that the husband had a drinking problem, or if that is what happened. Only trying to imagine the unimaginable and make some sense of the senseless. Jmo.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[IQuestion]

I find it incredibly ironic and self serving that he had no problem dragging his incapacitated, bloodied and gravely injured wife out to the balcony. Yet, when it came to "sitting on the edge of the balcony railing" had NO PROBLEM coming to his senses when self-preservation kicked in for him! His actions speak volumes: bully and a coward.
I believe jurors (if there is a trial) might come to a similar conclusion.
PS Just noting that he had the ability to make decisions.

 

[MsFacetious]

I hope he DOES regret what he did every day for the rest of his life.
So far we haven't heard that he does. All we've heard is that HIS life is over.
We haven't heard "OMG what did I do, my poor girls, my wife.... please tell me this is a nightmare..."

Just trying to toss her overboard and that his life is over...
I do hope he has remorse though. It'll be easier for the family... while also harder.
Easier than believing your father is just evil... harder knowing it was just a 60 second period of time that shouldn't have happened.

 

[Lilibet]

Lilibet your personal experiences give an insight to what the children may have been subjected to and it makes me sad for them (and you[emoji176]). My mother grew up with an alcoholic father and my grandparents fought alot. It has shaped her whole life.

I am not suggesting that the husband had a drinking problem, or if that is what happened. Only trying to imagine the unimaginable and make some sense of the senseless. Jmo.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Thanks ninij. I'm sorry about your Mom. There are lasting effects and the baggage can get passed on to our own children. My daughter and a friend used to say half-jokingly that they were each an "adult child of an adult child of an alcoholic." Thankfully, we both turned out pretty well, despite the weight of the baggage we carry. The load has lightened over time.

I knew you weren't suggesting he had a drinking problem and I'm not willing to go that far either. We have no way of knowing much of anything and we do want to make sense of this tragedy. If there was alcohol involved as I suspect, he could be an occasional drinker who had too much this one tragic time. Or it could be something else entirely. But whatever those girls witnessed, their feelings will likely be complex, as mine were. Children always seem to blame themselves for adult failings. It's very sad.

 

[Jennifer17]

Thanks ninij. I'm sorry about your Mom. There are lasting effects and the baggage can get passed on to our own children. My daughter and a friend used to say half-jokingly that they were each an "adult child of an adult child of an alcoholic." Thankfully, we both turned out pretty well, despite the weight of the baggage we carry. The load has lightened over time.

I knew you weren't suggesting he had a drinking problem and I'm not willing to go that far either. We have no way of knowing much of anything and we do want to make sense of this tragedy. If there was alcohol involved as I suspect, he could be an occasional drinker who had too much this one tragic time. Or it could be something else entirely. But whatever those girls witnessed, their feelings will likely be complex, as mine were. Children always seem to blame themselves for adult failings. It's very sad.

I have know men who have had a really bad drinking problem who have never harmed a soul. I have known other men who could have two drinks and become violent. I have known other men who did not drink at all who were violent.

 

[Lilibet]

I have know men who have had a really bad drinking problem who have never harmed a soul. I have known other men who could have two drinks and become violent. I have known other men who did not drink at all who were violent.

Yup. Very true. We just don't know.

 

[JerseyGirl]

On the night of the killing, Kristy’s father and brother broke down the cabin door after hearing Kristy screaming from her room.

http://people.com/crime/kristy-manzanares-husband-divorce-while-on-cruise/

I read a few days ago in another article that the problem they were having is that when the daughters ran out of the room, the door closed shut, the only way back in is to call security or hope that the person inside the cabin opens the door. The cabin was connecting, so I think when the girls ran out to get help, none of them had the cards to get back into either room.

 

[SteveP]

On the night of the killing, Kristy’s father and brother broke down the cabin door after hearing Kristy screaming from her room.

http://people.com/crime/kristy-manzanares-husband-divorce-while-on-cruise/

I read a few days ago in another article that the problem they were having is that when the daughters ran out of the room, the door closed shut, the only way back in is to call security or hope that the person inside the cabin opens the door. The cabin was connecting, so I think when the girls ran out to get help, none of them had the cards to get back into either room.

Yeah, no offense meant towards them, but when I think of journalism, People Magazine isn't a main source of serious news for me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Has anyone been reading the Cruise Critic thread besides me? This is maybe more accurate as far as the time line:
"I'm curious as to when the first call was received by Passenger Services. My BIL (on the ship 2 cabins away) believes he made his call around 8:45. He also recalls a security guard WALKING down the hall after quite a bit of time had gone by. Perhaps, this wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been. Thoughts?"

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I shared the Cruise Critic link here and have continued to read reactions to the Emerald Princess incident.

As a veteran of many cruises (at least 20 on Princess/various ships/voyages), I would like to comment on the "security guard". Ship personnel are very reluctant to become involved in passenger issues unless an incident presents some type of danger to the vessel or other passengers (fire hazards, contagious Norovirus). There were likely calls to ship security about an argument in a particular stateroom but it might have been viewed as a personal/domestic situation that didn't constitute danger to all passengers or to the vessel. The security guard may have eventually shown up in the alleyway due to the volume of calls reporting the escalating argument. It's been my experience that cruise ship personnel, even officers, avoid becoming embroiled in passenger disputes.

 

[pamelado2]

I shared the Cruise Critic link here and have continued to read reactions to the Emerald Princess incident.

As a veteran of many cruises (at least 20 on Princess/various ships/voyages), I would like to comment on the "security guard". Ship personnel are very reluctant to become involved in passenger issues unless an incident presents some type of danger to the vessel or other passengers (fire hazards, contagious Norovirus). There were likely calls to ship security about an argument in a particular stateroom but it might have been viewed as a personal/domestic situation that didn't constitute danger to all passengers or to the vessel. The security guard may have eventually shown up in the alleyway due to the volume of calls reporting the escalating argument. It's been my experience that cruise ship personnel, even officers, avoid becoming embroiled in passenger disputes.

Thanks for your insight on that - to me that also explains the brother and dad breaking down the door. If they took too long or when they got there it was quiet they may have been asking questions instead of going right in as the family wanted.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Niner]

Google Alert - Sharing!

Well, I started reading the thread and I see Angela_Beckett already posted the link - but here's a bit from the article, if you don't want to click on it! I already had typed up! nline:

Husband Allegedly ‘Snapped’ and Killed Wife on Alaska Cruise After She Asked for Divorce, Source says
http://people.com/crime/kristy-manzanares-husband-divorce-while-on-cruise/

[.....]The killing allegedly culminated a night of marital tension between the couple that began when Kenneth became belligerent at dinner, a family source who was not on the boat tells PEOPLE.
[.....]
“He had been acting terrible all night,” the source says. The source adds that at some point that evening, Kristy asked for a divorce. At that point, Kenneth allegedly “snapped” and killed her, the source says.
The couple’s apparent marital discord was news to the source, who tells PEOPLE, “If they were having [marital issues] they never showed any of that to anyone else.”
According to the source, the night of the killing, Kristy’s father and brother broke down the cabin door after hearing Kristy screaming from her room. In the blood-covered cabin, they discovered Kristy mortally wounded and Kenneth allegedly covered in blood as well.
[.....]
Passengers aboard the Emerald Princess ship told ABC News they heard a couple arguing in their room before they heard the woman “screaming for her life.”
[.....]
According to Alaska state officials, Kenneth made his first court appearance by teleconference on Thursday and is scheduled for a preliminary hearing for Aug. 10. U.S. Magistrate Judge Kevin F. McCoy determined Kenneth must be detained pending trial.

I agree with you gitana - this has been simmering for a while - for her to ask for a divorce out of the blue. He probably was a bully.... And I read else where that no "witnesses" heard laughing, just arguing.

Hey Lilibet :grouphug:

snipped by me....
Yeah, no offense meant towards them, but when I think of journalism, People Magazine isn't a main source of serious news for me.

And we all know - for the most part - reporters almost ALWAYS get it "wrong" the first time they write about a case.... cguru: So, we'll just have to wait until next Thursday the 10th for his prelim hearing. Hopefully, we'll get some "correct" information.

Oh - could someone re post the link to the Cruise Critic - I went back and can't find it! :doh: TIA!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Here you go, Niner: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2525804

 

[gitana1]

I am not sure how accurate this People article is. As someone else mentioned, family members specifically stated that it was NOT an anniversary cruise. I also will point out that, as the unnamed source was not on the cruise, all of the information he/she gave to the magazine was second hand. May still be accurate, but certainly has a slant to it. Why did the husband become belligerent at dinner? Was it the carryover of an argument that began earlier? Had either of them perhaps been thought to be flirting with someone else on the cruise maybe? Just speculating. I cannot believe that Kristy embarked on the cruise with the intent of asking for a divorce while at sea, even if she knew she was going to ask for one at some point in the near future. I also don't believe the hubby embarked on the cruise with the intent of killing his wife while at sea. Lots of people are speculating that there was alcohol involved, and I concur. I do believe that there were probably two people under the influence, and I believe that both were probably being vocally abusive, and the argument just continued to escalate until the husband completely lost it and killed her in a rage. I will not argue that it wasn't premeditated in the legal sense of the word, but I honestly see a much more likely conviction if the charge is 2nd degree murder rather than 1st. Just a sad, sad situation, and God bless those poor daughters. JMO

To insinuate that this was a "fight" that escalated due to flirting or that both were intoxicated, when the article was clear that only one had been belligerent, and there was no mention of Kristy being drunk, sort of smacks of victim blaming or excusing the rage of this husband. As if unfortunate circumstances just led him to become enraged and was due to bad behavior on both their parts.

I've read a few posts in this vein, including from people I deeply respect. The insinuation is that both were drunk, both were belligerent and that people have a responsibility not to "egg on" or "set off" a drunk and that if they do, well, murder can happen, which is unfortunate, but that those dealing with angry drunks are tasked with keeping them calm.
I'm reading posts from dear posters describing situations in which the victim of domestic violence in a relationship at the hands of an alcoholic are perceived as just as much or almost as much to blame for "instigating" any violence that occurs when dealing with a belligerent drunk.

I take issue with all of that.

I do believe drinking played a part in this but the only evidence we have of anyone acting drunk is that it was he: The man who had been belligerent all night.

So was she not supposed to defend defend herself against the belligerent tirades of her drunken husband?

I mean people can get drunk and do so without attacking their wives. No matter what the wife says. Anyone who becomes violent while drinking has that in them to begin with.


And belligerent drunks often won't stop until they get a response so they can vent their rage on the abused spouse. Cowering or staying silent typically won't work. They will wake you out of a sleep to rage. They will harass you as you sit there quietly. They will continue on and on, no matter what you do or don't do or say or don't say. No matter how you say it.


Regardless, the only person who bears responsibility in a situation where a drunk becomes enraged and attacks is the drunk. They have a responsibility not to get drunk. Especially if their violent nature is exacerbated by drinking. They have a responsibility to get help with their rage.


Arguing back with an angry drunk isn't what prompts more rage or verbal abuse or violence. What prompts that is the drunk being drunk and having an unresolved violent nature.

To summarize my thoughts:


1. No one is responsible for reasoning with or keeping calm or not "setting off" a belligerent drunk. The drunk has the responsibility not to get to that state to begin with and to deal with their inner rage.


2. Those who "fight" with an angry drunk are not at fault and should not expect to be attacked. Often, they are simply trying to defend themselves against an unrelenting verbal assault from a drunk.


3. It is not common sense to expect physical assault and/or murder or to try to prevent it when engaging with someone who is either drunk, angry or both because 99% of people in those states don't physically assault women or children. It's not in most people to do that no matter how upset or inebriated. And as to those who have already seen their spouses or partners become violent when drunk, see 1 and 2 above.


4. There is no evidence that Kristy was drunk. There is evidence that he was as he was belligerent and that can be a sign.


5. There is evidence that Kristy was in a domestic violence relationship. Why? Because the statement of the child indicates he has a pattern of being abusive (rather than that her mom was baiting him
as ive seen insinuated). Because she was murdered by her husband of over a decade. Because unlike a coldly calculated plan to avoid support, or get revenge for something, or to obtain insurance proceeds or hide a huge lie or wherever, sudden rage killings, which this appears to be, typically are just the culmination of on-going abuse rather than a sudden, unexpected murder.

6. The nature of this man is evident by his actions and words following the "accident". He tried to throw her body overboard. He didn't cry, "what have I done?" He cried, "MY life is over!"


7. We ALL need to do better in understanding domestic violence and supporting victims, not victim blaming and holding perps accountable. That includes me.

 

[Doghairrules]

Gitana1, you are just the best. Thanks for your post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk