AK - Samantha Koenig, 18, Anchorage, 01 Feb 2012 - #7

[ConnectedSuitor]

BBM

What makes you think LE even knew his name prior to arresting him in TX?

My understanding in that a white Ford Focus was seen in one of the bank surveillance video's he withdrew money from and that is how they tracked him to the motel he was staying at. He was also leaving a dotted road map for LE to follow with each ATM he tried withdrawing money from drawing a virtual line from Nevada to Texas. Remember there were several ATM's that he tried using but couldn't receive cash because the daily limit had been exceeded. (Which I would think the daily limit was set by the FBI low enough to keep him coming back for more money, but high enough to keep him on the hook. I'm surprised he didn't text that he would kill her if he couldn't get several thousand dollars at one time) Once LE knew what kind of car he was driving and which direction he was heading it was pretty easy to track and find him.

I honestly don't think LE had a clue as to who he was until they pulled him over for a traffic violation (ya right) and asked him for his ID.

JMO

I think you are right. LE searched his house the night he was arrested. I remember reading something about neighbors saying they saw undercover cars in the neighborhood before that, does anyone know where that was?

 

[ConnectedSuitor]

http://www.ktuu.com/israel-keyes-pl...amantha-koenig-charges-041912,0,5764758.story

Charging documents say Keyes then demanded that $2,440 in ransom payments be made to the card, which were subsequently withdrawn from locations in Anchorage as well as Arizona, New Mexico and Texas before his March 13 arrest in Lufkin, Texas.

Weird, where did the $2,440 amount come from?

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

I was wondering about the toolboxes cause I thought *maybe* he had hidden her in one in the shed and that's what she might have been found in....JMO

 

[LucyOso]

BBM - Anchorage is not a small town; there must be at least 150 ATM's here.

I agree with you that LE should have known something was up and could have caught him earlier.

My thoughts, maybe they knew through airline reservations he was planning on leaving the state. They could have wanted him to withdraw over $1,000 to trigger the federal charges, and leave the state. I don't know why it took so long after he left the state to nab him though. They should have been able to track that he rented a car and put out a nationwide APB.

My thoughts and opinions only.

I wondered that, too. Maybe LE was watching him. If they thought she was alive and being held ransom, they may have just watched. There are plenty of cases where an abductor has been picked up only to have the victim perish from starvation, dehydration, the elements, etc. Maybe, by just watching they were trying to establish where she was as they thought she was alive. With the weather in Alaska if she was in an outbuilding or cabin, if she was captive, she would need someone to help her survive.

The other thing too, is perhaps LE was not fully convinced this wasn't a manufactured incident. Perhaps, they were wondering if Sam was in on it and maybe did not take it as seriously as they should have? There is a good possibility, I have seen this happen, where because of certain pasts and lifestyles of people, cases like this are not investigated as promptly, thoroughly, etc say as if it was someone who didn't have some experience in the school of life. We don't know what the text messages said and perhaps some of them said she was already in the lower 48.


I would think a federal charge for access fraud would be cumulative. Otherwise people would get $999 each incident and be free.

 

[LucyOso]

QUESTION-- In seeing that Keyes used Sam's cell to send atleast one text message with his demands for ransom and the directives of how to supply the funds..well.. IMO there is no way this could have been accomplished without the cell phone having connected with the network signal in order to send the text message.. I understand Keyes easily could have removed Sam's battery from the moment he abducted her and only replaced battery and powered on when sending the text in early morning hours of 2/2(impersonating Sam to conceal abduction) and again on 2/24.. after sending each text I assume he again removed the battery.. nonetheless those two text messages sent would have had to connect with the network in sending a signal in order to have successfully sent the SMS/text messages..

Why then could not the text message sent on 2/24 have been tracked? I understand that he most likely did cut off her GPS(if she even had it on to begin with) but still the good old fashioned pings would have been available ..

I snipped the above. As for the cell phone pings, it is not like a pin point GPS. It creates a location between 3 towers, a radius or triangulation. So, if it pinged once or twice to send a text, that provides only the information that the phone is somewhere near there. It works better in a wilderness area, where there is maybe one or two roads, but in a city, that is a lot of ground to cover based on a couple of pings. And, depending on what he texted, he could have claimed Sam was in the lower 48 and switched on the phone down there, too...

 

[Knox]

He killed her early the morning of Feb. 2, flew to Texas, then returned about two weeks later, the indictment says.

http://www.adn.com/2012/04/19/2431578/keyes-pleads-not-guilty-in-abduction.html

It sounds like IK killed Sam sometime after he got the debit card from the truck at 3:00AM.

He abducted her at 8:00 pm, where did he take her for seven hours? I guess this is why LE was asking for people to come forward if he had access to their property. ​

 

[LucyOso]

The motive still does not make sense which is why I think more will come out about this case!

His actions make me think that maybe he is really clueless about banking and technology. Why did he withdraw $480 various times from the ATMs in the Lower 48? Did he think that $500 is some sort of trigger? He used banks and ATMs in very small towns, did he think they wouldn't have security cams? If I was going to use a stolen ATM I would use it in a bigger, busier city.

I was thinking that, too. But, he had to know something about technology and the "current times" as he was able to utilize a cell phone, text like a teenage young woman and throw of LE for a while.

Each ATM card has a set limit. So maybe he found it was not declined at $480. It is better to take out $480, when you know you can get it, then to start a new transaction and loiter around longer to try higher numbers. Also, it is possible, if the limit on the card was $500 a day, that that would have to include ATM fees. If it was a Credit Union or Alaska Bank, there would be an additional fee. Most ATMs only let you take out $ in 20's. If the was a $5 fee and a limit of $500, he could only take out $480 for it to dispense cash.

The other thing too...we do not know if the bank was being slowly fed the funds, either. $1000 on one day, then a weekend with no deposits, etc. Then $500. Just enough to keep him taking out money, but not enough for him to ditch the card, yet. If it was me, I would have dumped the card (as it had the number scratched in it) on the Vegas Strip where I know someone would pick it up and use it for me...LOL.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

One last thing before I have to leave for a while.. I greatly wonder about Keyes state of mind?? Is he all there? I mean really the things this man did are as stupid as stupid gets as far as his getting away with an abduction, murder, ransom, fraud, and all the charges relating to the money stolen.. death penalty worthy charges yet the man did things that would lead directly to his being found, arrested, and an entire treasure Trove of easy to prove evidence to back up all those death penalty worthy charges.. so what gives? Is he legally insane? Is he just one the stupidest men to walk the earth? What?

And all for what? A little over 2 grand that he literally had to play where's Waldo in his state to state withdrawals of a few measly hundred at a time? .. its beyond all I've ever seen and criminals minds are deviant and sick and far too much for us to comprehend but I'm sorry Keyes is on a totally different playing field of ignorant, stupid, and certainly seems for nothing.. no sexual motive.. no real plan to extort large amount of money.. no sadist torturer.. what?

Yea there are lots of answers to our thousands of questions but does it really solve this case and just what the hell was really going on? IMO, no.. what is it?

JMoO, and I could easily be persuaded to change it....but I think that when people get desperate, they take increasingly bigger chances for less possible payoff. So the risk gets higher and higher, and the even the "best-case outcome" isn't great. No link to support that offhand, sorry... Just a personal opinion. It could be possible that he was ignorant, but maybe it's also possible that he was getting desperate for some reason.

 

[cocomod]

I have followed Sam's case, but not every day, and I have not read everything. I am wondering if IK's girlfriend is completely oblivious to what happened here. Is she going to be charged at some time as an accomplice?

 

[Knox]

I thought about that too PJD.

Keyes was appointed attorney Rich Curtner and said little during his arraignment, except that his debt exceeded his assets and that he has no monetary resources.

IIRC, the house he lived in with the girlfriend was owned by her, his name was not on it when we searched property records. What exactly was his financial situation that led to such desperation? I wonder if he had tax liens? Maybe he received 1099's for work he performed and never filed a return and the IRS was after him?

The trip to Vegas ... many desperate people go there hoping for a big pay out, but end up in worse shape. Come to think of it, are there Indian Casino's in Alaska? Gambling debt?

 

[ConnectedSuitor]

I thought about that too PJD.

IIRC, the house he lived in with the girlfriend was owned by her, his name was not on it when we searched property records. What exactly was his financial situation that led to such desperation? I wonder if he had tax liens? Maybe he received 1099's for work he performed and never filed a return and the IRS was after him?

The trip to Vegas ... many desperate people go there hoping for a big pay out, but end up in worse shape. Come to think of it, are there Indian Casino's in Alaska? Gambling debt?

There are no casinos in AK. He does not have any tax liens, judgements, etc that I could find. His name was not on the list of garnished PFDs.

 

[Deleted member 718]

http://www.adn.com/2012/04/19/2431578/keyes-pleads-not-guilty-in-abduction.html

"Keyes entered the courtroom Thursday with his dark hair slicked back and his lips pursed. He wore wire-rimmed glasses and scanned the audience, which included Koenig's mother and sisters. Her mother, Darlene Christiansen, wore a lime green sweatshirt -- Koenig's favorite color, friends say -- and the women all had pictures of Koenig on their shirts and pins"

and

"Koenig's father, James Koenig, has said that Koenig lived with him and that he was her lone parent from a young age. He was not at the hearing and has not spoken publicly since before his daughter's body was found."

So, the absent mom shows up at the hearing and the vocal father stays home. That's kinda opposite of what I thought would happen. Maybe James is just overcome with grief or rage?

 

[Knox]

Do we know what K. Anderson does for a living?

 

[LucyOso]

Do we know what K. Anderson does for a living?

Are we allowed to discuss this if she is not a suspect? I am assuming KA is IK's GF... bessie?

I will say this: If she was the major bread winner, it could have a very emasculating effect on IK. And, as women with good jobs, as per previous posts/news, may be scarce in Alaska, perhaps she was a sought after item. So, IK feels emasculated and in turn handles it by abducting a young woman and killing/raping her to prove (mentally) he is powerful, etc. All of this usually subconscious for the most part. That could be a motive and that sort of thing happens with most rapes, etc.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Are we allowed to discuss this if she is not a suspect? I am assuming KA is IK's GF... bessie?

I will say this: If she was the major bread winner, it could have a very emasculating effect on IK. And, as women with good jobs, as per previous posts/news, may be scarce in Alaska, perhaps she was a sought after item. So, IK feels emasculated and in turn handles it by abducting a young woman and killing/raping her to prove (mentally) he is powerful, etc. All of this usually subconscious for the most part. That could be a motive and that sort of thing happens with most rapes, etc.

I don't know that I'd say "most" rapes necessarily, but regardless, IMO this could be a really useful way to think about this case. Again, all IMOO, and subject to change based upon evidence that...well...it should lol.

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

Hi All, first post here, but have been lurking for some time. Been following this case from the beginning. I've had some thoughts about what may have happened.

While it's possible this was about more than money, I feel like it is most likely about money. I get the impression that maybe IK planned to rob the coffee hut, but then found that there was not much money to take. From there, I'm thinking things just spiraled out of control and that he really didn't have a plan for all of this to happen the way it did.

My thought is that he tried to rob the hut and there wasn't very much money in the register and then perhaps tried to steal money from Samantha, but being a young girl, she also did not have a lot of money on her. At this point, he could have just left, but maybe he was angry and determined to get cash. Holding Samantha at gun point, demands she give him money. Being scared, she states she has none on her. Maybe mentions that she does have a debit card, but its not on her. Perhaps she thought if he took her out of the coffee hut and into the streets, someone would see them or perhaps she could escape, or even that this would buy her time. He takes her into his truck and then maybe put her into his shed.

She gets him the card and he finds that there is no money in the account and then maybe kills her in a fit of rage. Does anyone know if the card was inserted into a ATM machine to check the account balance that night she was taken?

At this point, IK had no plan. He just hoped to keep getting as much money as he could while traveling further and further away, but never had this plan in mind. He made a lot of dumb moves, I find it hard to believe that he had this all thought out. JMO.

 

[joslmaman]

If IK plead not guilty, does that mean he didn't talk?

If he plead not guilty, would have to mention insanity right away or could that come later?

I assumed he talked and that's how the located her, but perhaps they got info elsewhere that helped locate her like..what if he told KA that he was going ice fishing at mat lake...? IMO

 

[bessie]

Are we allowed to discuss this if she is not a suspect? I am assuming KA is IK's GF... bessie?

snipped

If this person has not been named in MSM, then the answer at this time is NO. If I've missed a news article where the individual is named, then please let me know.

 

[ConnectedSuitor]

Hi All, first post here, but have been lurking for some time. Been following this case from the beginning. I've had some thoughts about what may have happened.

While it's possible this was about more than money, I feel like it is most likely about money. I get the impression that maybe IK planned to rob the coffee hut, but then found that there was not much money to take. From there, I'm thinking things just spiraled out of control and that he really didn't have a plan for all of this to happen the way it did.

My thought is that he tried to rob the hut and there wasn't very much money in the register and then perhaps tried to steal money from Samantha, but being a young girl, she also did not have a lot of money on her. At this point, he could have just left, but maybe he was angry and determined to get cash. Holding Samantha at gun point, demands she give him money. Being scared, she states she has none on her. Maybe mentions that she does have a debit card, but its not on her. Perhaps she thought if he took her out of the coffee hut and into the streets, someone would see them or perhaps she could escape, or even that this would buy her time. He takes her into his truck and then maybe put her into his shed.

She gets him the card and he finds that there is no money in the account and then maybe kills her in a fit of rage. Does anyone know if the card was inserted into a ATM machine to check the account balance that night she was taken?

At this point, IK had no plan. He just hoped to keep getting as much money as he could while traveling further and further away, but never had this plan in mind. He made a lot of dumb moves, I find it hard to believe that he had this all thought out. JMO.

Welcome! I don't think any info has been released about IK using the debit card to check the balance. He could have been broke and desperate, going on vacation with his girlfriend and daughter the next day, and needed money for the vacation. Maybe he was a customer and she recognized him so he panicked and took her across the street to his truck.

The indictment doesn't say he was wearing a disguise when he made the ATM withdrawls in Anchorage, which seems odd. I would love to know more about what happens when LE is monitoring a bank account like that. It seems like they would be notified immediately but maybe it takes some time?

 

[ConnectedSuitor]

snipped

If this person has not been named in MSM, then the answer at this time is NO. If I've missed a news article where the individual is named, then please let me know.

Hi Bessie! She was named as his girlfriend and the owner of the house they lived in....or do you mean she has to be named as a suspect?

http://www.ktva.com/home/outbound-x...-Abduction-Who-is-Israel-Keyes-142954395.html