AK AK - Steve Keel, 61, missing from hunting trip, from TN - Aug 27, 2022

[RickshawFan]

@RickshawFan has done an excellent job in this thread of analyzing how the hunt by SK & BC went off the rails causing loss of a life. I hope you have had a chance to read those posts.

What Air B&B / campsites are you referencing?

The hunt discussed in this thread was entirely self-planned & self-guided AFAIK. We have not been given any details about their prep or expectations; we have limited info from MSM & social media regarding their equipment & what transpired.

We have had a lot of excellent analysis in this thread regarding the obvious and not-so-obvious failures that created a deadly scenario. Anyone planning a hunt on tundra would be wise to read this as a primer & not rely solely on the claims of videos that say you can "do it yourself." Of course you can, but risk increases exponentially!

JMO

@WingsOverTX has done an excellent job, too! We can’t rescue a missing person, but we can sure persuade someone else not to take chances that can quickly turn the “trip of a lifetime” into a catastrophe, not just for the missing person, but for friends, family, searchers, SAR, and those who have to do recovery.
We are getting SAR now who are burned out and suffering from PTSD from doing recoveries. We owe it to them to be responsible.

 

[RickshawFan]

Responding to @LauraAnne You are so right. There is so much we don’t know about logistics in this case, and it could be very telling. Did it play, for instance, in SAR’s decisionmaking?
I doubt all of us posters on this thread working as a team could get that stuff out. (And I’m POSITIVE we wouldn’t want to lol.) The cooler has me stumped. It took, what, 4 hours for BC to get from the vehicle to camp? And that seems to have been empty-handed.
This is why the boat is crucial to a trip like that. Your drop off and pick up is right at your camp. As it is, outfitters make clear that hunters have to do ALL the lifting and loading. Operators transport only.

It’s possible all the schlepping in this DIY exacerbated a previous health condition, contributing to SK’s catastrophe.

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m about to go on duty at a nearby National Park. I walk the trails with dog leashes, maps, first aid kits, and radio. I will talk to approximately 175 people in my 3 hour shift, and my dog will get stroked by approximately 50.
NPS is using this volunteer format to lower the chances of needing professional forms of rescue and to minimize accidents. They are really ramping up this program. If you have a chance to volunteer….

 

[White_Mountains]

I was familiar with that case, and had it in mind. NH is very good at evaluating the relative preparedness (aka stupidity) of hikers they rescue, and publishing it in the media. I’ve seen them scold for wearing jeans, not carrying enough water, making impetuous decisions, taking “shortcuts”, not having the 10 Essentials. Matrosova and the two unprepared AT thru hikers were great examples.
SAR risks their lives going after some of these people.

I’m not sure how unprepared or inexperienced this hiker was who died in June, but he probably should have gone down the mountain ASAP if he got into weather he didn’t expect, especially since he was hiking solo. Instead, he kept going upwards, and soon it was too late. As far as I can tell.

Your comment about the jeans made me laugh, reminded me of the Just Friends movie quote, “he’s Jersey, he skis in his jeans.” But, sadly, so true…and I’ve considered the cotton pants SK was wearing over and over and have wondered if he was wearing a moisture wicking base layer under the pants…the things we may never know.

There is a fine line between comfort doing an activity and complacency when we begin to overlook or ignore the dangers in our environment.

It seems that the gentleman who died of hypothermia in June wasn’t entirely prepared for the weather shift. To be honest, we had a string of beautiful days and I was a bit surprised when I got an alert that particular day about snow and wind in the area. I had just hiked Eisenhower the day before and only brought my 10 essentials (and my gsd). Even as someone who believes themselves to be prepared, I may not have been prepared for the severe shift on June 19th - but I would have checked my ego and headed down the mountain as soon as I hit bad weather (rain, snow, winds). Weather never improves if you keep going up, especially on Mount Washington.

For Steve, I worry that his vague health issue from the day before could have been an ominous warning of something more serious. From my days of working in the Emergency Room, it reminds me of the 50-60 year old men, slightly overweight, who didn’t feel great for a day or two (indigestion and low energy) and I’d see them brought in by EMS with a cardiac arrest after they went out to shovel snow. I truly hope that isn’t the case here.

Of course, this is all my own opinion.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Your comment about the jeans made me laugh, reminded me of the Just Friends movie quote, “he’s Jersey, he skis in his jeans.” But, sadly, so true…and I’ve considered the cotton pants SK was wearing over and over and have wondered if he was wearing a moisture wicking base layer under the pants…the things we may never know.

There is a fine line between comfort doing an activity and complacency when we begin to overlook or ignore the dangers in our environment.

It seems that the gentleman who died of hypothermia in June wasn’t entirely prepared for the weather shift. To be honest, we had a string of beautiful days and I was a bit surprised when I got an alert that particular day about snow and wind in the area. I had just hiked Eisenhower the day before and only brought my 10 essentials (and my gsd). Even as someone who believes themselves to be prepared, I may not have been prepared for the severe shift on June 19th - but I would have checked my ego and headed down the mountain as soon as I hit bad weather (rain, snow, winds). Weather never improves if you keep going up, especially on Mount Washington.

For Steve, I worry that his vague health issue from the day before could have been an ominous warning of something more serious. From my days of working in the Emergency Room, it reminds me of the 50-60 year old men, slightly overweight, who didn’t feel great for a day or two (indigestion and low energy) and I’d see them brought in by EMS with a cardiac arrest after they went out to shovel snow. I truly hope that isn’t the case here.

Of course, this is all my own opinion.

Like you, I feel a medical event led to his disappearance. While not completely surprising, it is tragic. It would give his family great comfort if they could bring his body home. I hope that can happen so he can lie at rest near his home in Tennessee.

The efforts made to find him are not the legacy of care he might have wished for but speak well of a man whose family & community want him home. I have been very touched by the passion shown in the ongoing efforts to find a man known as "Smiley."
MOO

 

[Baddux]

Your comment about the jeans made me laugh, reminded me of the Just Friends movie quote, “he’s Jersey, he skis in his jeans.” But, sadly, so true…and I’ve considered the cotton pants SK was wearing over and over and have wondered if he was wearing a moisture wicking base layer under the pants…the things we may never know.

There is a fine line between comfort doing an activity and complacency when we begin to overlook or ignore the dangers in our environment.

It seems that the gentleman who died of hypothermia in June wasn’t entirely prepared for the weather shift. To be honest, we had a string of beautiful days and I was a bit surprised when I got an alert that particular day about snow and wind in the area. I had just hiked Eisenhower the day before and only brought my 10 essentials (and my gsd). Even as someone who believes themselves to be prepared, I may not have been prepared for the severe shift on June 19th - but I would have checked my ego and headed down the mountain as soon as I hit bad weather (rain, snow, winds). Weather never improves if you keep going up, especially on Mount Washington.

For Steve, I worry that his vague health issue from the day before could have been an ominous warning of something more serious. From my days of working in the Emergency Room, it reminds me of the 50-60 year old men, slightly overweight, who didn’t feel great for a day or two (indigestion and low energy) and I’d see them brought in by EMS with a cardiac arrest after they went out to shovel snow. I truly hope that isn’t the case here.

Of course, this is all my own opinion.

Yep. I am an EMT and live where it snows. It really sucks.

 

[acutename]

@RickshawFan has done an excellent job in this thread of analyzing how the hunt by SK & BC went off the rails causing loss of a life. I hope you have had a chance to read those posts.

What Air B&B / campsites are you referencing?

The hunt discussed in this thread was entirely self-planned & self-guided AFAIK. We have not been given any details about their prep or expectations; we have limited info from MSM & social media regarding their equipment & what transpired.

We have had a lot of excellent analysis in this thread regarding the obvious and not-so-obvious failures that created a deadly scenario. Anyone planning a hunt on tundra would be wise to read this as a primer & not rely solely on the claims of videos that say you can "do it yourself." Of course you can, but risk increases exponentially!

JMO

I do not disagree with Rickshaw Fan- I just think it is possible that SK had something like a heart attack and an Outfitter could not really save you from that, if you have over extended. The Dead Horse Outfitters and other sites tell you that you are miles from medical care- thus the SAR is the air ambulance for the residents. but even if they knew exactly where you were 'cuz you had a good beacon, it could take 24 or 48 hrs or more for them to get to you because the weather might prevent them from flying.

The Air B&Bs and campsites I mentioned are around Fairbanks- I googled becuse Rickshaw said $150/nt for a hotel, but there are rooms and camp sites if you have a smaller budget. I would personally have been afraid of the truck or van having a problem on Dalton because there are no services....so that is another instance in which you might have to wait a long time for any kind of spare parts/assistance. Anything you have - batteries, satelite phone, propane stove-if you do not have spares or parts and you break or loose something- well, bad news. And while you are waiting if you run out of other supplies, you could get hypothermic from that.

 

[White_Mountains]

Like you, I feel a medical event led to his disappearance. While not completely surprising, it is tragic. It would give his family great comfort if they could bring his body home. I hope that can happen so he can lie at rest near his home in Tennessee.

The efforts made to find him are not the legacy of care he might have wished for but speak well of a man whose family & community want him home. I have been very touched by the passion shown in the ongoing efforts to find a man known as "Smiley."
MOO

I so agree. It is admirable to have family and friends who are working so hard to find him. Not only to search but to continue to raise funds so that they can leverage resources that may help them to find their loved one. Their love and hope shines a light for many.

 

[RickshawFan]

Ha, I went on volunteer duty at the National Park, and, wouldn't you know, I got injured enough that if I had been out in the backcountry, I would have had to use a PLB and get SAR. I was shocked I could be that injured and be so immobilized so quickly.
How? I was lunged at by a small, yappy, dog on an extendable leash held by a runner. The dog suddenly shot out at me (I had only just thanked the visitor for leashing her dog.....) to the end of the leash, so I totally didn't anticipate. My dog went airborne, and next thing I knew, I couldn't take a step. One hip wouldn't work at all: probably a pulled muscle. The runner kept on going.
I decided maybe I needed to leave my shift early (lol on the denial), so I began to head back, and a little further on I decided I'd better call the ranger station (I carry a Park radio).
A ranger came and got me, carried my pack, etc.; great teamwork from all the rangers, and this was a super busy day for them, high season, not like they didn't have anything better to do. And, wouldn't you know, there was an ambulance waiting for me at the Ranger station, with EMT's starting to race up the trail. Their pack looked a lot heavier than mine...

It's shocking how fast something can go haywire for something seemingly as minor (at least in the front country) as a pulled muscle. And I would have been in major trouble if this had happened in the backcountry, on a rugged trail, one with a lot of clambering....And if it had no cell service... Ay.

So, yeah, in the SK case, he could have had some stunningly minor problem—a pulled muscle after losing his balance that simply felled him?—and could have met his death as a result.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Ha, I went on volunteer duty at the National Park, and, wouldn't you know, I got injured enough that if I had been out in the backcountry, I would have had to use a PLB and get SAR. I was shocked I could be that injured and be so immobilized so quickly.
How? I was lunged at by a small, yappy, dog on an extendable leash held by a runner. The dog suddenly shot out at me (I had only just thanked the visitor for leashing her dog.....) to the end of the leash, so I totally didn't anticipate. My dog went airborne, and next thing I knew, I couldn't take a step. One hip wouldn't work at all: probably a pulled muscle. The runner kept on going.
I decided maybe I needed to leave my shift early (lol on the denial), so I began to head back, and a little further on I decided I'd better call the ranger station (I carry a Park radio).
A ranger came and got me, carried my pack, etc.; great teamwork from all the rangers, and this was a super busy day for them, high season, not like they didn't have anything better to do. And, wouldn't you know, there was an ambulance waiting for me at the Ranger station, with EMT's starting to race up the trail. Their pack looked a lot heavier than mine...

It's shocking how fast something can go haywire. And I would have been in major trouble if this had happened in the backcountry, on a rugged trail, one with a lot of clambering....And if it had no cell service... Ay.

So, you just a pulled muscle? Glad you were quickly rescued. But sorry to hear you had an oopsy out there. Take care of yourself!

 

[charminglane]

@RickshawFan
Well, there is a different list of the 10 Essentials when you are comfortably recuperating and resting on the couch.
1. Clicker

Cheers, glad you made it home safe.

 

[Laughing]

@RickshawFan
Well, there is a different list of the 10 Essentials when you are comfortably recuperating and resting on the couch.
1. Clicker

Cheers, glad you made it home safe.

1. Clicker
2. Cold pack for injured joint for first 24 hours
3. Couch, deck chair, or recliner
4. Comfy clothing
5. Choice of beverage, hot or cold
6. Compression, if it helps your particular joints
7. Camaraderie, provided by WSer
8. Commiseration, provided by old WSers
9. Chocolate, frequently good for what ails ya'
10. Compassion, for yourself

11. Cussing, for the errant dog owner

Take time for physical healing -- as well age, this takes more time!

Didn't mean to hijack my buddy @charminglane , but I only see a lone essential in the post.

ymmv lrr jmho

 

[RickshawFan]

Does anyone know anything about sonar? Evidently, SK's family is trying to get sonar to search the lake.
The only sonar rescue service that I associate with this kind of thing is the fellas that recently found Kieli Rodni's car. That would be Adventures with Purpose.

But how could a sonar search happen in the tundra environment? It's not on a helicopter, right? You have to have a human handler, yes? How are they supposed to wade through mud into a lake so they can use the equipment? Wouldn't they get sucked into the mud?

IMO it might have been more helpful to have drones do a grid search on the lake. But, really, if I'm lost, and I put a foot in mud that comes up to my knee, I'm not taking another step. I'm getting outta there!

I have NO idea what's involved in a sonar search!

 

[JustMyself]

Ha, I went on volunteer duty at the National Park, and, wouldn't you know, I got injured enough that if I had been out in the backcountry, I would have had to use a PLB and get SAR. I was shocked I could be that injured and be so immobilized so quickly.
How? I was lunged at by a small, yappy, dog on an extendable leash held by a runner. The dog suddenly shot out at me (I had only just thanked the visitor for leashing her dog.....) to the end of the leash, so I totally didn't anticipate. My dog went airborne, and next thing I knew, I couldn't take a step. One hip wouldn't work at all: probably a pulled muscle. The runner kept on going.
I decided maybe I needed to leave my shift early (lol on the denial), so I began to head back, and a little further on I decided I'd better call the ranger station (I carry a Park radio).
A ranger came and got me, carried my pack, etc.; great teamwork from all the rangers, and this was a super busy day for them, high season, not like they didn't have anything better to do. And, wouldn't you know, there was an ambulance waiting for me at the Ranger station, with EMT's starting to race up the trail. Their pack looked a lot heavier than mine...

It's shocking how fast something can go haywire for something seemingly as minor (at least in the front country) as a pulled muscle. And I would have been in major trouble if this had happened in the backcountry, on a rugged trail, one with a lot of clambering....And if it had no cell service... Ay.

So, yeah, in the SK case, he could have had some stunningly minor problem—a pulled muscle after losing his balance that simply felled him?—and could have met his death as a result.

Oh Rickshaw I am sorry to read this - I hope you're not in pain and that it is just a pulled muscle (which is still very sore and immobilising).
Thinking of you!

 

[RickshawFan]

1. Clicker
2. Cold pack for injured joint for first 24 hours
3. Couch, deck chair, or recliner
4. Comfy clothing
5. Choice of beverage, hot or cold
6. Compression, if it helps your particular joints
7. Camaraderie, provided by WSer
8. Commiseration, provided by old WSers
9. Chocolate, frequently good for what ails ya'
10. Compassion, for yourself

11. Cussing, for the errant dog owner

Take time for physical healing -- as well age, this takes more time!

Didn't mean to hijack my buddy @charminglane , but I only see a lone essential in the post.

ymmv lrr jmho

LMAO We should preserve this list! It took me a moment to figure out what a clicker is.... At first, I thought it was to zap future errant dogs. Then, I realized, oooohhhh, a TV clicker!

And then, I realized @charminglane 's single "essential" (aka clicker) was all that was needed in this situation. No need for 9 others. Bwahaha!

 

[RickshawFan]

It seems that the gentleman who died of hypothermia in June wasn’t entirely prepared for the weather shift. To be honest, we had a string of beautiful days and I was a bit surprised when I got an alert that particular day about snow and wind in the area. I had just hiked Eisenhower the day before and only brought my 10 essentials (and my gsd). Even as someone who believes themselves to be prepared, I may not have been prepared for the severe shift on June 19th - but I would have checked my ego and headed down the mountain as soon as I hit bad weather (rain, snow, winds). Weather never improves if you keep going up, especially on Mount Washington.

Snipped for focus.

Evidently, SAR had a lot of calls during that storm, but they triaged and went for the guy that subsequently died. I'm so glad you weren't hiking that day! No fun being out there in sleet, either; it seems kind of obvious to turn around. I guess he had a reservation at a hut, and it was his treat....

 

[WingsOverTX]

Does anyone know anything about sonar? Evidently, SK's family is trying to get sonar to search the lake.
The only sonar rescue service that I associate with this kind of thing is the fellas that recently found Kieli Rodni's car. That would be Adventures with Purpose.

But how could a sonar search happen in the tundra environment? It's not on a helicopter, right? You have to have a human handler, yes? How are they supposed to wade through mud into a lake so they can use the equipment? Wouldn't they get sucked into the mud?

IMO it might have been more helpful to have drones do a grid search on the lake. But, really, if I'm lost, and I put a foot in mud that comes up to my knee, I'm not taking another step. I'm getting outta there!

I have NO idea what's involved in a sonar search!

Seems like the same kind of "Hail Mary Pass" that using RECCO to try & find his credit cards or phone would be.

The North Slope is experiencing winter conditions now. Unfortunately, I doubt any of these efforts are going to be successful even if they could be attempted.

I understand the desperation but it is verging into irrational territory IMO. So many resources have been consumed with no results of any merit.

I don't think it is heartless to stop. The North Slope Burough Mayor has made the right call.

Local searchers may eventually find something but what if they run into danger? There comes a time when risks are outweighed by any chances of success.

I was blocked for saying so on Facebook but Steve himself is likely at peace. Risk takers are generally not stupid. They just count the potential cost, including loss of life, differently than the average more risk-averse person.

While I would like to see his remains returned to his family, that would only bring a small measure of peace. Grief & loss don't have to be his legacy. Honor the man by accepting his choices.

MOO
#BeBraveLikeSteve

 

[RickshawFan]

I was blocked for saying so on Facebook but Steve himself is likely at peace. Risk takers are generally not stupid. They just count the potential cost, including loss of life, differently than the average more risk-averse person.

Snipped for focus

This is a really interesting idea about risk....I've never thought of it this way. Are you saying a risk taker simply calculates the odds of survival differently than someone who's risk averse?
I can agree with that, but I also think there are some people who are willfully ignorant. They don't want to weigh the risks; they just wanna do what they wanna do. Maybe everyone does this at least sometimes.
And are you also saying SK is likely at peace because he made a different calculation about risk than most people would, and he'd be okay with risking it all? Maybe this goes along with another poster's idea about him dying while "doing what he loved" and that being a positive. You're probably right that's where his mind was.

For me, the big problem with the kind of risk-taking in a case like this—even though the "missing person" may be okay with dying while doing what they loved—is that it doesn't calculate for the risk to others. This is one of my biggest beefs about not being prepared for a wilderness trip: you might be okay with the risk of catastrophe, but you're also putting others at risk (especially SAR), 'cos they will try to help you if something happens. Often, this is dangerous for them.
In this case, more than many of the missing persons cases, I've been very troubled by how much complaining there has been about search resources, with no calculation about the high risk to rescuers. And they didn't seem to be listening when local SAR made clear that looking for SK was an extremely risky proposition. They'd make it sound as though local SAR was being balky, lacking in compassion, insular, and generally unfriendly to non-Alaskans.
If I feel something is too risky, I'm neither being balky, lacking in compassion, insular, or xenophobic: I'm simply calculating the odds of dying or getting severely injured or making that happen to someone else.

 

[WingsOverTX]

In this case, more than many of the missing persons cases, I've been very troubled by how much complaining there has been about search resources, with no calculation about the high risk to rescuers. And they didn't seem to be listening when local SAR made clear that looking for SK was an extremely risky proposition. They'd make it sound as though local SAR was being balky, lacking in compassion, insular, and generally unfriendly to non-Alaskans.
If I feel something is too risky, I'm neither being balky, lacking in compassion, insular, or xenophobic: I'm simply calculating the odds of dying or getting severely injured or making that happen to someone else.

RSBM
So few people ever experience true wilderness, making it hard for them to gauge risks of actually being out there properly. The natural bias toward preservation of human life at any cost held by many of these same people makes any discussion of risk a loaded proposition.

I tend to seem lacking in compassion by many just for pointing out that the choice to hunt in the Arctic is in itself a potential death warrant for anyone, not just for a seasoned hunter from Tennessee.

I signed a waiver releasing a whitewater rafting company from liability one time. I can tell you I was very happy to get safely off that raft because that experience really could have ended my life. Many people have died drowning on vacation by taking a whitewater rafting trip. I was hanging on for dear life & that took all the fun out of it.

Do I judge all who see it differently as lacking in some way? No. Each person gauges risk so differently. I just want to enjoy something more if I'm going to sign a waiver of liability to participate!

There really is no way to reason with people who calculate risk very conservatively & want to ignore dangers to SAR in undertaking searches that are unwise because probability of success is low & costs are high.

This thread is very instructive for those open to a constructive discussion. Those experiencing extreme grief and fear are unlikely to find it so.

But the basic truth is the same for all: life itself is risky & some activities that put us close to the edge have no reasonable possibility of mitigation.

This truth is not cruel IMO. It is just truth.

MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

Here's another case that lands on the nexus between a person who does something extremely risky (though not particularly caring), put another climbing party at risk, and risks SAR.

This happened in a remote area in Canada. The woman involved had already had a partner die on Rainier in her presence the year before. She left him there.

Monique Richards version of her story, glorifying herself and her amazing risk-taking:

AAC Publications - Mt. Logan, Solo Ascent and Rescue

In 2017, Canada’s 150th anniversary, I tried to reach the summit of Mt. Logan via the King Trench with a partner. We were able to reach the summit ...

publications.americanalpineclub.org

SAR's version of her story in cbc (Canadian Broadcast Co, MSM), after disparaging push back: Behind the scenes of the rescue of the last solo climber on Mount Logan.

She even requested a specific rescue device....

This story makes my head spin.