AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #3

[cherrymeg]

@DimeDetective or any one else is Chief Tony Spivey related to Mary Spivey who was murdered Dothan man to be retriedin Midland City slayings ?

 

[LR1]

I wondered if this car was stolen with bodies inside. It sounds like a bad movie plot but you never know. Were there many car thefts in that area around that time?

That same year iirc there was a murder of an elderly woman by two youths that proceeded to take her vehicle and were later caught in FL. At least one was a juvi if not mistaken. Then you had a murder of, again iirc, a spouse or lover by a woman's other lover . She went on trial but can't remember the details. I think that one might have been the year before. So I don't know how bad the auto theft was but certainly the town did not lack for violence around that time.

 

[TedMac]

Very interesting perspectives on the placement of the car for sure. I do want to clear up something when it comes to the car being dirty. I grew up going to the field parties in Headland, Ozark and Dothan areas. When you think of a field we are not tasking a nice grassy pasture. Most are in an old peanut field that has been tilled and planted. There was rain before that day according to wether reports from back then so whatever field those parties were in would have been muddy as heck. Also it’s not like there is a road into where everyone parks at, depending on how you enter the field they would have had to drive through quite a bit of acreage to get back to it. Also, in that area especially after a good rain some of the guys with trucks and even a few people in their cars would go muddin in the field at those same parties. Very popular and your vehicle would look like you gave it a mud bath after making a run through it. Also the mud on their pant legs confirms this also was propbably the case. Some have speculated that they got loose from the killer and ran through a creek or something, I don’t think so at all. It was confirmed that they DID attend the field party in Skipperville and that area especially is all cotton and peanut fields, very muddy after a rain. I think that is the only way the mud on the car and in them got there was from that party.

I still wholeheartedly believe that they decided to go somewhere else in Ozark instead of heading home. Like I said before it really was t that hard to find 231 from that area. I think they stopped at a house party at one of the many party houses in that area or to meet up with someone else who has never come forward with that information. Who knows. I know,last time I was home in Dothan I drove out to Ozark to look st a horse for sale and I drove by all those areas again. Still shakes me to the core what happened to them. So very sad for the families.

BBM...You may be right, but I respectively disagree. Tracie had just purchased her New Balance Shoes the previous week and paid $100.00 for them. I don't think she would have ruined them playing in the mud. She did not come from a wealthy family and couldn't afford to buy a new pair of shoes every week.

 

[dancemom]

I did not know police had officially determined where the crime scene was located based on some evidence. I have read areas like Depot Lane or another area south of town near 123 were possible areas that the murders took place.

I completely agree with you that moving the bodies in the victims car is strange, especially considering they were shot and guns tend to make a lot of noise. I can only speculate as to why he moved the bodies.

My specialty is mapping so if the crime scene were indeed the Depot Lane area or whatever area off 123 that has been discussed it still would be a little strange to me that he drove J.B. Beasley's car to where he did on Herring Avenue on the south side of Herring Avenue facing north.

One thing I have looked up is where do most criminals tend to put cars if their victim is in the trunk. This will always be a general perspective, but it seems like they either place the car near where the victim lived or near where they live. Why is this important? If we assume that police canvassed the neighborhood around Herring Avenue where the car was found and the killer does not live nearby, I think we might be able to come to some general conclusions.

Knowing a town's main roads is not the same as knowing the residential streets at night. So for example if the crime was committed near Depot Lane and the killer drove the car to Herring Avenue to throw people off, we might speculate that this person is familiar enough with Ozark, AL to be able to walk the residential streets at night without getting lost. It certainly would look foolish if the individual walked down the wrong street only to have to walk back down the same street late at night with witnesses, possible dogs barking, and just generally being frustrated with not knowing where to go.

And then there is the fact that the bodies are hidden in the trunk. I think a criminal could drive a car and park it on a street with many houses and walk away. And if there is no connection between him and the vehicle, how would anyone find him?

We could speculate all day about the case. Another idea could be that since the car was left on Herring Avenue, maybe the person did not want to get too far away from AL 27 if they had to walk? Or maybe J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett only knew the main roads well enough to navigate them and not the residential streets? Maybe this is how they got lost after leaving the gas station? It could be the same for the killer. Maybe this person just travels through Ozark, AL and does not actually live there?

These are all my guesses, and I like to think are somewhat educated guesses based on my experience.

Great post. One other factor that I've heard mentioned re: the choice of Herring Ave is that this would be fairly close to the hospital. The killer could have a connection to the hospital himself, or he might go there to ask for a ride from someone that he knew would be working there. The hospital would have ample parking where the killer might have even have left his car or arranged to meet up with someone for a ride. Does this seem plausible?

 

[CoolJ]

I just want to take a minute to say it is great to see DimeDetective back here posting.
DD, if it weren’t for you and your very detailed and informed posts back in the first thread here on this case, I do not think I would have been interested in this case as much as I was.

Unfortunately, much of that original information has become tainted or at least muddied over time.

• The white truck owner being sought after for questioning and then all of a sudde. supposedly being identified yrs later
• The license on the dash story changing after many many years
• Details of Tracie’s phone call home (going to meet 2 boys) changing significantly after many many yrs
• The DNA donor apparently being identified, again after many many years

All of these items have changed since I first began following this case just a few yrs ago.

So, was the disinformation given to us in the beginning, or has the dissemination of disinformation been happening more recently?

 

[CoolJ]

(Snipped and BBM.)

Does this boastfulness strike anyone else as matching up with the leaving of the car on Herring Avenue? I've long believed that the car's placement on Herring Avenue was:

• absolutely intentional
• intended to communicate something to someone
• the key to solving the case

It's the closest thing we have to a signature. If the person who spoke those words to friends is indeed the killer, isn't his boast an extension of his leaving the car on Herring? It's as if he can't contain himself. He wanted people to see, to know, what he had done. Seems he would've told even more people about it.

Looking at this quote and the car on Herring side by side, a personality almost begins to emerge. And possibly even a motive.

I made a post not too long ago where I suggested that the car was left as a message to Ozark PD.

“Here Ozark PD, you deal with this mess”

Whoever left the car there (whether it was the actual killer(s) or not), obviously wanted it to be found. Which means they obviously wanted Ozark PD to find it.
Smart move move by the killer(s), as Ozark PD proceeded to conduct a horrendous investigation, starting with not bothering to open the trunk for 6 hours while at the same time crawling all over the damn thing.

 

[dancemom]

These posts do a good job of addressing the big problem of misinformation in this case. The lack of effort over the years to officially correct and clear away conjecture in favor of solid information has left this case a muddle. The license on the dash is a perfect example.

And I agree with LR1: the role of the DNA in this case is especially confusing. It's been used to clear many suspects, yet it remains oddly in the background. If this were clearly a DNA case, wouldn't we all be eagerly awaiting an announcement that genealogical testing is being done?

Misinformation is a huge frustration in this case, not only because it is a tragic unsolved mystery in a small town and therefore attracts all sorts of speculation and rumor, but also because there's not much of an official narrative as we have noted, with no recent updates from LE.

For those who were reading in the unavailable previous thread, consider that much of our discussion involved info coming from: 1) JB's sister, who seems like a wonderful and credible person, but was a young child when this crime happened; 2) Veronica Silver / Shined Rabbit, which according to the podcast mentioned above has some interesting new info, although we really don't know the sources of that info; 3) a writer/ reporter (I think he objected to being called a blogger) who can't be considered MSM but whose claims keep popping up, as with the mention of R. Crum upthread; and even 4) a "top cop" who claimed to have solved the case. (I didn't realize it at the time but I'm pretty sure he was a local LEO who ran unsuccessfully for sheriff in Dale County this year.) Why does LE not give an official statement from time to time to keep public interest and to shut down rumors? Is it because they know what happened but don't have enough evidence to prosecute?

 

[dancemom]

I just want to take a minute to say it is great to see DimeDetective back here posting.
DD, if it weren’t for you and your very detailed and informed posts back in the first thread here on this case, I do not think I would have been interested in this case as much as I was.

Unfortunately, much of that original information has become tainted or at least muddied over time.

• The white truck owner being sought after for questioning and then all of a sudde. supposedly being identified yrs later
• The license on the dash story changing after many many years
• Details of Tracie’s phone call home (going to meet 2 boys) changing significantly after many many yrs
• The DNA donor apparently being identified, again after many many years

All of these items have changed since I first began following this case just a few yrs ago.

So, was the disinformation given to us in the beginning, or has the dissemination of disinformation been happening more recently?

I think we were posting at the same time CoolJ, but I agree that many of the "facts" that seemed key to the case have changed in recent years. Do you think it could be intentional? (That line of thinking leads down a dark path.) Or the product of wisespread speculation without enough valid information?

 

[jkloc420]

I wondered if this car was stolen with bodies inside. It sounds like a bad movie plot but you never know. Were there many car thefts in that area around that time?

I can't say I am to up to date on this case. I would say though from reading through this thread other sources it seems more then one person was responsible. There is always a possibility that the girls met somebody at a stop light who invited them to a party. In small towns those things happen. They made a phone call at the gas station but it is very possible they pulled up to a bunch of guys on the actual road.

 

[jkloc420]

I wondered if this car was stolen with bodies inside. It sounds like a bad movie plot but you never know. Were there many car thefts in that area around that time?

The car could of been parked in town to make it less suspicious. In other words it would just blend in with other cars. Think about all the missing person cases where the cars are parked in apartment buildings. So whomever did it most likely needed a ride home or lived in that area or had friends in that area.

 

[TedMac]

I'm still hung up on the notion that the depositor of the DNA has come forward. If he has they would have run the test. If all that has indeed happened why keep that from the public? The possibility of the DNA not being related to the crime has always been there but someone coming forward and it being ID'd is a whole nother ball game. It opens other doors as far as motive which has been the problem this whole time.

Unless it's a situation where they know who did it but can't prove it so they're keeping the revelation close to the vest. I can maybe see that happening but otherwise can also see where releasing that info could be beneficial.

You did have the former chief continue to speak of the DNA as recently as 2014 but in almost the same breath say they still don't know what the motive is, which I thought was odd at the time.

If Michigan dude's friends think he might have did it it's likely they also have an idea of why. Has anyone heard why he might have did this?

BBM...Exactly. He mentions the DNA and says the motive for the murders is umkown. MOO, but it gives more creedence to the possibility the semen was not related to the murders. Sadly, the motive continues to elude us.

Reportedly, the friends were shocked that he said that.

 

[TedMac]

The car could of been parked in town to make it less suspicious. In other words it would just blend in with other cars. Think about all the missing person cases where the cars are parked in apartment buildings. So whomever did it most likely needed a ride home or lived in that area or had friends in that area.

BBM...Maybe, but even though it was parked in town, it was parked in an isolated area and no other vehicles were around it or parked anywhere near it. If the killer had wanted to blend it in with other vehcles, he would have pulled into one of the nearby apartment building parking lots or maybe the hospital parking lot.

 

[TedMac]

Ok so I can’t help but keep going back to the testimony of Rena Crumb. What did she have to gain by telling a made up story? Nothing. She had everything to lose and after being assaulted has basically disappeared. No more information from her after that. There was never any official word on her at all it was all from the family. What does everyone think of this?

I found the mother of all cover ups by police and one cop breaks the Blue Wall

Good question, what did she have to gain? She and someone else passed her off as an Ozark police officer. It turns out she was never a sworn officer anywhere in the state of AL. Perhaps it was her 15 minutes of fame?

 

[aegis100]

Very popular and your vehicle would look like you gave it a mud bath after making a run through it.

Like TedMac, I respectfully disagree as well. In the photos I have seen of the car there is not a lot of dirt/mud visible on the car.

 

[cherrymeg]

Like TedMac, I respectfully disagree as well. In the photos I have seen of the car there is not a lot of dirt/mud visible on the car.

That's the picture of the actual car? If so that is not a lot of mud. It's just around the tire.

 

[aegis100]

The car could of been parked in town to make it less suspicious. In other words it would just blend in with other cars. Think about all the missing person cases where the cars are parked in apartment buildings. So whomever did it most likely needed a ride home or lived in that area or had friends in that area.

In my opinion, the killer(s) left it on Herring because they knew it was isolated and that drastically reduced the chances of witnesses seeing the car abandoned. Placing the car in parking lot increases visibility by someone looking out a window and being spotted. The location is also, most likely, convenient to where the killer(s) lived or associated with.

 

[somequestions]

Great post. One other factor that I've heard mentioned re: the choice of Herring Ave is that this would be fairly close to the hospital. The killer could have a connection to the hospital himself, or he might go there to ask for a ride from someone that he knew would be working there. The hospital would have ample parking where the killer might have even have left his car or arranged to meet up with someone for a ride. Does this seem plausible?

Anything is possible. My very first post about this case was that maybe J.B. Beasley turned early before SR 123, and then got lost on the residential streets of Ozark, AL late at night. Then I read about the witness they talked to at the Big Little gas station that gave J.B. directions and saw the interview J.B.'s sister Jacqui gave. That changed my mind that maybe J.B. Beasley at least knew the main roads of Ozark, AL well enough to get home.

So the person who murdered them may have walked to the hospital or a house in the area after committing the crime. Unfortunately there really is no way to say for sure where J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett went after leaving the Big Little gas station in Ozark, AL. I know it has been written on here that police know where the crime scene is, but I have not read anything about that officially. If the crime scene was Depot Lane or south on 123 it is a bit strange seeing as how J.B. Beasley was trying to find 231 to get home according to the gas station witness. Depot Lane looks to be close to the gas station off of Broad Street. 123 cuts through town to meet up with 231 south. So maybe that mystery of where the crime scene is has been solved? I don't know. How they were stopped to be kidnapped is still a mystery. In my opinion, stopping a dark car with its headlights on coming at you is difficult unless you are absolutely sure who is in the vehicle. I would be surprised if the Haunting Evidence tv scenario of HOW they were kidnapped is the way it actually happened.

Until anyone can say for sure where J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett went after the Big Little gas station, whether or not their killer is someone known or unknown to them, and whether or not they got "lost", I think in this case is hard to come up with any solid conclusions.

 

[aegis100]

That's the picture of the actual car? If so that is not a lot of mud. It's just around the tire.

cherrymeg, as far as I know that is the car as it was found on Herring Avenue. The photo is from the Shined Rabbit Facebook page as well as this one attached below.

 

[cherrymeg]

cherrymeg, as far as I know that is the car as it was found on Herring Avenue. The photo is from the Shined Rabbit Facebook page as well as this one attached below.

I think determining if something is clean or not depends on the person.

 

[jkloc420]

In my opinion, the killer(s) left it on Herring because they knew it was isolated and that drastically reduced the chances of witnesses seeing the car abandoned. Placing the car in parking lot increases visibility by someone looking out a window and being spotted. The location is also, most likely, convenient to where the killer(s) lived or associated with.

Have you seen the video of the guy parking Jennifer keese car. Also somebody is most likely going to notice somebody parking a car out in the middle of nowhere. The reason being it is strange thing to do. Being parked in a full parking lot makes you blend in or on a street