Found Deceased AL - Kamille "Cupcake" McKinney, 3, kidnapped from birthday party, Birmingham, 12 Oct 2019 #4

[MsBetsy]

Ok. This is what I think is going on:

The female who was arrested and i believe is still in jail, Derek Brown aka Quentesa Jackson - is Cupcake's biological mom!

Note that:

1. She lost her kids due to allegations of abuse (by someone, I don't know those details) in 2018. She had 3 kids - twins and a then 2 year old daughter.

2. She went and took them back from a relative, who was acting as guardian, at gunpoint. Took them to a motel where a sheriff's dept found them, she fled w/ the kids via automobile and crashed and was arrested. Nobody seriously injured.

3. Part of her probation or parole stipulations was a no contact order (meaning no contact with her kids, wherever they ended up, nor with whoever they ended up staying with, obviously).

4. She was arrested and they were able to keep her via NEW charges of violating said no contact order.

So this means that she was making another attempt to get at least her youngest child back, which violated the no contact order.

What happened after they took Cupcake and before the two were arrested I couldn't tell you.

We Know who Cupcake's mom is. It's not the woman who was arrested.

 

[Akstuddard]

Ok, so so far I haven’t heard anyone say they think there is a white woman.

The report of the white woman came out early when the vehicle images on the road were first released, before the arrest of PS and QJ.

Since then, I don’t recall any further reference to the white woman. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I know you will.

(Lol, to the poster above. We both started it posts with “ok”. That means we’re really trying to think here.)

Welcome Akstuddard.

But LE said there is no known connection between the family and PS/QJ. They also said this is not a custodial issue.

No debating that they said that...

But let's say I'm right, consider the caution with which a situation like this would have to be handled. Oftentimes with parental abductions the relationship isn't even mentioned by the authorities. Especially in a case where the bio mom has already snatched them once at gunpoint.

It would explain a LOT about so many aspects of, and holes in this case

 

[proctorelites]

IMOO, Planning & executing a toddler abduction within 20 minutes, seems reactionary to me. supports both an accident in the parking lot or a child predator.
I dont know what is really occurring in the video but to me it looks like somebody is storming away from an area & the kids are in their path. The Kids keep picking something up, looks like they're expecting the other person to come along, possibly collecting items dropped by an adult, or hoping someone ackowledges their coloring/drawing? It looks much sturdier than a Sheet of paper to me so idk.

makes me wonder if, n an adult's haste to leave, CC was hit by a car & that's why her shoes were found in the parking lot, all IMOO, just working through possibilities.
A 2 foot tall toddler in a parking lot. I've almost backed into a toddler at WalMart until their adult came into view & it's happend more than once in broad daylight & I was vigilant. This just seems like a possibility too, IMOO.

 

[Akstuddard]

We Know who Cupcake's mom is. It's not the woman who was arrested.

If you say so. I doubt she would have it any other way.

Meaning if she is a foster or adoptive mom, or relative caregiver, these aren't things that are supposed to just be put out there. And they aren't. They are kept quiet.

 

[mjp1228]

Where was the other little girls parent? Why wasn’t she picked up right after the party?

And, why is LE just releasing the news and CCTV so many days after the abduction? This I cannot understand.

Did LE get so caught up with “catching the suspects” that they had tunnel vision and weren’t seriously looking for suspects?

In reading the latest news, it sounds like this investigation has been a real mess! Screw up would be a better word, but it’s not lady like.[/QUOTE

Yes, I have seen the video where he is in a car, smoking something. The gist of it is that he thinks this is personal, directed at him, not a random abduction.

Yes, that’s one of them.

 

[MsBetsy]

I hope you’re right but the fumbling and bumbling at these press conferences, that massive and unproductive show of force, community search grid (HUH?) and releasing a completely ridiculous video without properly editing it, among other things, makes me feel like the local PD is more Charlie Foxtrot than Colombo. MOO.




I think it’s very possible that a family connection is the cause, maybe not a member being the perp but some sort of round about involvement even if it’s something like a family member knowing the perp.

I’m still drawn to this genius quote when thinking how they unravel this mystery:

Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.
Sir Isaac Newton

How was the video ridiculous? They released it as it was and it's apparently all they had. Those surveillance videos always seem to be poor quality. The massive show of force was only unproductive because it was a false lead. If that's what you mean. At least it's good to know that they are using all their resources to find her.
What is wrong with the search grid? Isn't that common procedure when conducting a search? What other way are they supposed to do it? They must have some reason to believe she is there to put the effort into it.
If not, they will keep following credible leads until they find her. There are usually so many people simultaneously doing different things in a case like this. We only know what they have revealed so far. And that usually isn't much.
It doesn't help that they are required to follow through with so many false tips and information generated on SM that turns out to be false. But it's something they have to do.
Hopefully whatever has led them to this search area turns out to be useful.

Imo

 

[ZsaZsa]

Ok. This is what I think is going on:

The female who was arrested and i believe is still in jail, Derek Brown aka Quentesa Jackson - is Cupcake's biological mom!

Note that:

1. She lost her kids due to allegations of abuse (by someone, I don't know those details) in 2018. She had 3 kids - twins and a then 2 year old daughter.

2. She went and took them back from a relative, who was acting as guardian, at gunpoint. Took them to a motel where a sheriff's dept found them, she fled w/ the kids via automobile and crashed and was arrested. Nobody seriously injured.

3. Part of her probation or parole stipulations was a no contact order (meaning no contact with her kids, wherever they ended up, nor with whoever they ended up staying with, obviously).

4. She was arrested and they were able to keep her via NEW charges of violating said no contact order.

So this means that she was making another attempt to get at least her youngest child back, which violated the no contact order.

What happened after they took Cupcake and before the two were arrested I couldn't tell you.

Dominic McKinney was present when Kamille was born. He gave her the nickname Cupcake then. I don't think her parentage has ever been in question.

 

[oviedo]

IMOO, Planning & executing a toddler abduction within 20 minutes, seems reactionary to me. supports both an accident in the parking lot or a child predator.
I dont know what is really occurring in the video but to me it looks like somebody is storming away from an area & the kids are in their path. The Kids keep picking something up, looks like they're expecting the other person to come along, possibly collecting items dropped by an adult, or hoping someone ackowledges their coloring/drawing? It looks much sturdier than a Sheet of paper to me so idk.

makes me wonder if, n an adult's haste to leave, CC was hit by a car & that's why her shoes were found in the parking lot, all IMOO, just working through possibilities.
A 2 foot tall toddler in a parking lot. I've almost backed into a toddler at WalMart until their adult came into view & it's happend more than once in broad daylight & I was vigilant. This just seems like a possibility too, IMOO.

I’m beginning to doubt some of what was reported that evening - I can’t imagine man#2 would lead them into a crowd of people and Abduct her - if it happened minutes after - was it witnessed at all? I don’t think so now JMO

 

[margarita25]

I hope you’re right but the fumbling and bumbling at these press conferences, that massive and unproductive show of force, community search grid (HUH?) and releasing a completely ridiculous video without properly editing it, among other things, makes me feel like the local PD is more Charlie Foxtrot than Colombo. MOO.




I think it’s very possible that a family connection is the cause, maybe not a member being the perp but some sort of round about involvement even if it’s something like a family member knowing the perp.

I’m still drawn to this genius quote when thinking how they unravel this mystery:

Truth is ever to be found in simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.
Sir Isaac Newton

I can hear your frustration, and it’s a whole nother ballgame to actually be there, to be local. Trust me, I know (unfortunately). I also see that you are new. Welcome and thank you for your local insight/input and everything so far.

I know things appear hectic. Because they ARE.

I can’t comment specifically on BPD, and I don’t know if this will make you feel any better or not, but I will say this (and I’ve seen and studied THOUSANDS of investigations): IMO, ALL HANDS ARE ON DECK HERE. This is in nooooooooo way imo a Mickey Mouse investigation. You have the FBI, the US Marshalls, etc. and imo likely other agencies they are probably not even mentioning. So don’t worry about BPD.

I have full confidence that United States LE as a whole, this means many agencies, is doing their best collectively to find this little girl AND apprehend any and all persons responsible.

I’m not saying everything is perfect. And you DO indeed have a great point about the fast forward in the video (what’s up with that??)

 

[mjp1228]

If you say so. I doubt she would have it any other way.

Meaning if she is a foster or adoptive mom, or relative caregiver, these aren't things that are supposed to just be put out there. And they aren't. They are kept quiet.

Not sure what you mean. Why on earth would anyone have to keep it a secret if they were a caregiver or an adoptive or foster parent? I’m not sure where you’re from, but no one I’ve ever met that fits in those categories feels the need to hide their status. JMO

 

[Drc40]

I thought the investigation has been moving pretty fast, considering how many people were reluctant to come forward at first and how many rumors were circulating around on SM. That always makes their job a lot harder.

I thought we didn't know when they obtained the surveillance video. Did they say they had it from the beginning? If they thought it would help to show it immediately I would think they would. Maybe there is a reason they didn't.
Or maybe they didn't get it until now.
It's only been six days.
Imo

Considering there was an army of law enforcement on the scene and the camera in close proximity, it would stand to reason the video was obtained very quickly. I would think almost all video within the immediate 2 block area was found fast. They put out the original POI’s screen grabs Sunday night and it was from a convenience store. The camera with the children would have been much closer and likely found right away. My guess is they’ve had this video since day 1 or 2.

 

[Drc40]

I can hear your frustration, and t’s a whole mother ballgame to be there, to be local. Trust me, I know (unfortunately). I also see that you are new. (Thank you for your local insight and everything so far ).

I know things appear hectic. Because they ARE.

I don’t know if this will make you feel any better or not, but I will say this (and I’ve seen and studied THOUSANDS of investigations): IMO, ALL HANDS ARE ON DECK HERE. This is in nooooooooo way imo a Mickey Mouse investigation. You have the FBI, the US Marshall’s, and imo likely other agencies they are probably not even mentioning.

I have full confidence that LE is doing their best to find this little girl AND apprehend any and all persons responsible.

I’m not saying everything is perfect. And you DO indeed have a great point about the fast forward in the video (what’s up with that??)

Thank you!

 

[Akstuddard]

Not sure what you mean. Why on earth would anyone have to keep it a secret if they were a caregiver or an adoptive or foster parent? I’m not sure where you’re from, but no one I’ve ever met that fits in those categories feels the need to hide their status. JMO

When it comes to a situation like this, they most certainly would. For various reasons. And yes, in situations where children are removed due to allegations of abuse it is most certainly protected information who the foster parents are in the majority of cases. And in the final deposition of those cases, when a child is adopted out to non relatives, yes, the adoptive parents along with child services, more often than not, go to great lengths to keep things quiet.

It's hard to explain in this setting, but for a minute just focus on the no contact order and the prior arrest it stems from.

 

[proctorelites]

I’m beginning to doubt some of what was reported that evening - I can’t imagine man#2 would lead them into a crowd of people and Abduct her - if it happened minutes after - was it witnessed at all? I don’t think so now JMO

BBM, me too!!!
I thought they were headed to a parking lot, are they walking toward a group of ppl? The vid is one of the most bizarre Ive watched in a MP case b/c of the age of these kids &makes me question everything & everybody. Are these toddlers really walking around the neighborhood alone at 8 p.m., is this for real? I just feel like the kids were outside on the walkway bc they were either following someone or, wanted to show someone something or, wanted to find a specific someone or, somebody directed them to a group & NOT for any nefarious reason. But, whatever followed devolved or backfired in a horrendous way, CC is just a baby & shes been kidnapped, its heartbreaking.

 

[mjp1228]

When it comes to a situation like this, they most certainly would. For various reasons. And yes, in situations where children are removed due to allegations of abuse it is most certainly protected information who the foster parents are in the majority of cases. And in the final deposition of those cases, when a child is adopted out to non relatives, yes, the adoptive parents along with child services, more often than not, go to great lengths to keep things quiet.

It's hard to explain in this setting, but for a minute just focus on the no contact order and the prior arrest it stems from.

I do understand what you’re saying and completely agree that is the norm in the type of cases you mentioned. Unfortunately, my answer was too general based on the subject matter here. I immediately thought of friends that are or have been caregivers, foster and/or adoptive parents - but only in normal, everyday situations - and they are all quite open about their statuses.

 

[Akstuddard]

I do understand what you’re saying and completely agree that is the norm in the type of cases you mentioned. Unfortunately, my answer was too general based on the subject matter here. I immediately thought of friends that are or have been caregivers, foster and/or adoptive parents - but only in normal, everyday situations - and they are all quite open about their statuses.

I completely get what you are saying. It really depends on the circumstances. My life the last few years has been saturated with the ins and outs of the child welfare system, family courts, and other related areas. So be assured I have no desire to come to you guys with crackpot theories. my comments represent only something to be considered:

The age of the missing child and Jackson/browns youngest daughter

the previous actions of miss Jackson / brown indicating a determination to get her kids back by any means necessary

The circumstances, known and unknown around which she was one of only two people arrested in association with the case or as a result of what happened to Cupcake

And again, the fact they were able to arrest her on a violation of an order that she isn't supposed to make contact with her biological children..

 

[Drc40]

How was the video ridiculous? They released it as it was and it's apparently all they had. Those surveillance videos always seem to be poor quality. The massive show of force was only unproductive because it was a false lead. If that's what you mean. At least it's good to know that they are using all their resources to find her.
What is wrong with the search grid? Isn't that common procedure when conducting a search? What other way are they supposed to do it? They must have some reason to believe she is there to put the effort into it.
If not, they will keep following credible leads until they find her. There are usually so many people simultaneously doing different things in a case like this. We only know what they have revealed so far. And that usually isn't much.
It doesn't help that they are required to follow through with so many false tips and information generated on SM that turns out to be false. But it's something they have to do.
Hopefully whatever has led them to this search area turns out to be useful.

Imo

The video could have been edited to proper normal speed. It’s in some kind of jumpy slow fast forward. Many people can be recognized by how they walk, their gait. Free video editing software could alter it. It’s not helpful watching what looks like a Charlie Chaplin movie or someone jogging, as others thought, instead of smooth normal speed video playback.

A search grid in a densely populated urban area? Rural or more less dense and sure, large party search grids I can see, but anywhere close to this crime and people are going to be falling over each other. I think they quickly realized it wasn’t a good idea and cancelled it. So yes, it was not well thought out and appears desperate to me.

At first I was impressed but not so much today. Heck, if a reporter hadn’t asked we wouldn’t know CC was in that video. His entire presentation of that video still leaves more questions. He wasn’t clear in telling us what he wanted and gave confusing answers when reporters asked for clarity. Not in a way that he was being guarded for good reason but more the inability to properly convey the issues.

 

[margarita25]

I completely get what you are saying. It really depends on the circumstances. My life the last few years has been saturated with the ins and outs of the child welfare system, family courts, and other related areas. So be assured I have no desire to come to you guys with crackpot theories. my comments represent only something to be considered:

The age of the missing child and Jackson/browns youngest daughter

the previous actions of miss Jackson / brown indicating a determination to get her kids back by any means necessary

The circumstances, known and unknown around which she was one of only two people arrested in association with the case or as a result of what happened to Cupcake

And again, the fact they were able to arrest her on a violation of an order that she isn't supposed to make contact with her biological children..

I am much more concerned about the sexual predator angles, honestly.

 

[Kiranerys]

Me, too. I've watched the PC several times and they stop the video at the point where he engages with the kids. His pants are hanging low on his body. You can see the crotch of his pants hanging low, making his legs look really short.

I know there are older men who wear their pants low on their hips but I see it more on younger men. IMO

I know what you mean,its mostly a younger thing but as you say some older men do it,my friend is 31 and I'm always telling him to pull his trousers up
Do PS trousers look low in this pic,or is it just because his arms are reaching up?,its hard to tell.

 

[margarita25]

Paraphrasing / sorry don’t have exact quote handy:

The Chief said something along the lines of “we want to close the loop”.

What is a loop?

A loop is a circle. Or a ring. Or an oval.

•I understand he stated he wants to question that individual as he might have some information.

Some late night musings:

1 person is a dot.

2 people are a line, or “segment” (a word the Chief also used. Iirc the words were something along the lines of “we are appealing to a segment”).

3 people is a triangle, longer line, or perhaps loop.

Which brings the question-

IF POI #2 is the perp:

A) POI #1 is associated with him.

B) POI #1 is not associated with him.

—-

Additionally, the Chief has confirmed that this is KM seen in the video, which makes these persons possibly and likely the last persons with whom she was last seen.

So, for me it lies with that.

So the questions for me at this time are (again):

Is PS POI #2? Or is this a completely different person?