AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #2

  • #241
I don't know about him worrying about a scandal when his emails reflect that he was planning to live openly with this person.

I don't know that he was intending to live openly with his lover, just that he wanted to marry him.

But, might he have been leading the boyfriend along... playing along with a fantasy about a future that he never really intended to pursue...

This might be closer....more like wishful thinking than openly planning. "One day I hope to marry you" is vastly different than getting a marriage license. Do any countries in Europe actually allow/perform gay marriage? I thought that on this, the US was first.

I think the accumulated pressure of a failed business, declaring bankruptcy (did they lose the house in TN, too?) and the corresponding bad credit/lack of money, feeling like he's failed in many areas of his life, repressing his desires, etc. all bottled up inside might be enough of a motive. Some people turn to suicide. Maybe he turned to a secret life.

The following is blatant speculation on my part:

IF all this happened, then RS wouldn't be able to divorce Karen. The secret life would all come out, and he would lose his position in the community and with his family and friends (not to mention possibly disappointing his mother). He would never be the successful author he dreamed of being. He would possibly be shunned and an outcast. If, however, he could come up with a plan that permanently places him out of the country (as a missionary), then he would be free to live his life in Europe as he sees fit, but return to family and friends with his status (as a minister, etc.) intact. Well, divorce is out because the secrets might come out. Just maybe he was coldblooded enough to think he could come up with the perfect crime, murdering Karen, and have the perfect reason to go live overseas for the rest of his life (too many tragic memories to stay here).

If he could plan it so that everyone knew he was out of town (visiting son in TN), he could sneak back that night, murder her, and sneak back to TN before anyone noticed he was gone. Maybe he even had a contingency plan in case he had car trouble or is otherwise caught (he conveniently leaves his prescription or laptop at home and went to retrieve it that night). Maybe that's what he told Karen. And then he does the unthinkable and murders her, tries to make it look like a random act of violence (smashing the window, wrecking the house). Maybe it's particularly violent because, deep down, he blames her for his failures, his inability to live the life he wants to live. His hair and DNA should be there anyway since it's his house, so no real need to worry about trace evidence at the scene. Somewhere on the way back to TN, he ditches the murder weapon and changes his clothing (which were likely very messed up). The next day, he knows Karen is supposed to take his mother somewhere, so it's likely Karen's body will be found rather quickly rather than days later (allowing her time of death to be determined more accurately).

Voila, he has the perfect alibi (out of town), he has reason to leave the country and live his life as he sees fit.

Again, I don't have any evidence to support any of this. JMOO. I think Karen was completely blindsided by this, as was the church. If you listen to the interview with her coworker, she supposedly always talked very lovingly about RS. So very, very sad.
 
  • #242
I don't know about him worrying about a scandal when his emails reflect that he was planning to live openly with this person.

The thing is...even though the emails indicate he intended to marry this boyfriend and perhaps live openly with him. We don't know the timeline for that intention.

He could have been planning to do his mission work for the planned 3 years (or part of that 3 years) with the church so he could save $$ to follow through with the rest of his plan. He could have planned to marry him (and quit) at some point prior to when he should have returned to the US, not necessarily as soon as he got to Europe.

If he was planning on something like that, her finding out and announcing it to the church family and/or those planning on funding his mission work could have spoiled his plans. So maybe not that he was worried about people eventually finding out he had left his wife for a man, but perhaps worried they'd find out before he was ready. JMO
 
  • #243
These are my thoughts only and apologize if they are too graphic :




SMH.... I would imagine that murder by stabbing is very close up and personal , involves some forethought and probably didn't happen all in one second.
I also feel it's not like movies where there is one or two swipes and the person falls down and no longer moves. Possibly this alleged perp hadn't done this before and had to stab over and over.

Not sure how he can live with himself. His former congregation probably had no clue as to what he may have been capable of.
My personal opinion is that he may have planned this for some time ; and was going to leave the U.S. to HIDE.
What a jerk ! :(

MOO

RIP, Karen !

This is jmo, obviously, but I strongly believe that just with the tiny modicum of info known publicly, IMO there is definitely indicators that IMO, ONLY point toward premeditated rather than heat of the moment/crime of passion where there is no premeditation or intentional planning of the murder..

To attempt to quickly put into words what I mean{as I'm literally walking out the door and yet here I am typing a post:crazy:}.. The info that we have is that Richard left Homewood, AL Monday morning to go out of state and visit(possibly help move one) he and Karen's two adult sons.

We also know for a fact that Karen was NOT murdered PRIOR to Richard Shahan leaving town, and the state of Alabama. In fact we know that Karen actually worked at Hobby Lobby that Monday til after 8pm in her closing the store.

Again, this is just a very, very brief and to the point post regarding what we KNOW that IMO strongly indicates ONLY PREMEDITATION, rather than a murder with no planning or prior intent.. All jmo and when I get home later I'll attempt to better explain my opinion regarding premeditation.

Again jmo, tho,
 
  • #244
If a DA or whoever decides to charge premeditation, imo, it's disgusting that he can even get bail. Lots of poor people sit in jail for months for crimes that don't involve hurting anyone, or just for stealing.
 
  • #245
If a DA or whoever decides to charge premeditation, imo, it's disgusting that he can even get bail. Lots of poor people sit in jail for months for crimes that don't involve hurting anyone, or just for stealing.

The judge set his bail. Maybe the judge feels that the bail was appropriate based on the State's case. DA asked for no bail and the judge ruled otherwise. Can't believe if the State had more they wouldn't have presented it to the judge. jmo
 
  • #246
I don't know that he was intending to live openly with his lover, just that he wanted to marry him.

This might be closer....more like wishful thinking than openly planning. "One day I hope to marry you" is vastly different than getting a marriage license. Do any countries in Europe actually allow/perform gay marriage? I thought that on this, the US was first.

Snipped for brevity….

Embarrassingly, the US has far lagged behind Europe and other countries when it comes to gay marriage. The first nation to legalize same sex marriages was the Netherlands back in 2001. The US is still being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!!! :seeya:

Ten out of the sixteen countries that have legalised same-sex marriage are situated in Europe; a further fourteen European countries have legalised civil unions or other forms of recognition for same-sex couples, while Scotland and Ireland are considering legislation to introduce same-sex marriage.

LGBT rights in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_same-sex_marriage#Germany

Germany

Main article: Recognition of same-sex unions in Germany
In Germany there is a legal recognition of same-sex couples. Registered life partnerships (Eingetragene Lebenspartnerschaft) (effectively, a form of civil union) have been instituted since 2001, giving same-sex couples most of the rights and obligations of marriage. In 2004, this act was amended to include adoption rights (stepchild adoption only) and to reform previously cumbersome dissolution procedures with regard to division of property and alimony. Attempts to give equal rights to registered partners or to legalize same-sex marriage have generally been blocked by the CDU/CSU, the main party in government since 2005. All other main parties (SPD, The Greens, The Left and FDP) support full LGBT equality. The Federal Constitutional Court of Germany has however issued various rulings in favor of equal rights for same-sex registered partners (such as joint tax filing benefits), requiring the governing coalition to change the law.
 
  • #247
Not particularly about this case but I know for a fact that there is a lot of CASH that comes into a church from parishoners each week. And that cash is virtually unaccounted for and untraceable from a forensic accounting standpoint.
.... moo
BBM SBM

Taste,
Your comment about virtually unaccounted for and untraceable from a forensic accounting viewpoint may be true in some or many churches.

Now going O/T.
For many years, my job duties included developing & training in company policies and procedures to help reduce opportunities for such thefts. Hopefully eliminate, but sorry to say, w.> 500 locations, every year somebody(ies) would be caught 'peeing in the pool.'

Checks and balances included things like
---two employees counting cash (and checks) and signing each day's receipts.
---observation by a third employee, who would also sign.
---regular rotation of employees performing these duties.
---review of each days bank's deposit slips by two employees.
---review & reconcilation of monthly bank statements by two employees.
---monthly review by that third employee to ensure that above E'ees are performing & conducting the above daily & monthly duties.
---Quarterly and annual review by fourth & fifth E'ees to assure above E'ees are performing & conducting the above daily & monthly duties.

I also served on my church's committee to develop policies & procedures at that time and set up similar procedures.

W church procedures, 'plugging leaks' in cash-receipts-dam is easier (than w a typical w 5-6-7 day/wk bus. intake), because they are concentrated in virtually one day of the week in churches.

Nevertheless any organization's finances can be manipulated by someone determined to
---divert cash, checks, or other $ such as gifts of stock) before being officially deposited into church accounts or 'the system' or
---arrange for cash or checks to be disbursed to a non-existant or co-conspirator's entity, or
---otherwise MwM (= Monkey with Money).

Solid procedures and faithful execution are safeguards that detect embezzlement early, before continuing for months, years, or decades. Sounds labor intensive but is not.

Anyone involved w an organization esp not for profit,
(church, Boy Scouts, garden club, ElksLodge, homeowners assocation, whatever)
may ask questions of the bd or governing body, like:
What is the org's procedures for employees or volunteers handling any aspect of the org's finances?
What are the checks and balances to safeguard the org's finances?

Steps off soapbox, returns to thread topic.
Not suggesting RS obtained the confiscated cash unlawfully or under false pretense.
I don't have a clue about what his churches procedures are.
Saying at some churches, lax procedures or lax execution would have allowed someone there to do so easily.
JM2cts :seeya:
 
  • #248
  • #249
  • #250
Richard Shahan out on $100K bond, under house arrest
Read more/Video: http://www.myfoxal.com/story/24484926/richard-shahan-out-on-100k-bond-under-house-arrest

State prosecutors say Shahan used a knife to violently stab his wife to death.
From enzender's above link.. This quote per the State prosecutors was new to me in that up til now I'd only seen it stated as "stabbed and cut with an unknown object".. Not that I'm surprised to see the murder weapon being a knife..as I said just the first time I've seen it confirmed as such..

Also their describing it as violent I don't believe I'd seen before now.. Would like to see the latest court doc where these couple, newer details are stated..
 
  • #251
Snipped for brevity….

Embarrassingly, the US has far lagged behind Europe and other countries when it comes to gay marriage. The first nation to legalize same sex marriages was the Netherlands back in 2001. The US is still being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!!! :seeya:

Ten out of the sixteen countries that have legalised same-sex marriage are situated in Europe; a further fourteen European countries have legalised civil unions or other forms of recognition for same-sex couples, while Scotland and Ireland are considering legislation to introduce same-sex marriage.

LGBT rights in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_same-sex_marriage#Germany

Germany

Main article: Recognition of same-sex unions in Germany
In Germany there is a legal recognition of same-sex couples. Registered life partnerships (Eingetragene Lebenspartnerschaft) (effectively, a form of civil union) have been instituted since 2001, giving same-sex couples most of the rights and obligations of marriage. In 2004, this act was amended to include adoption rights (stepchild adoption only) and to reform previously cumbersome dissolution procedures with regard to division of property and alimony. Attempts to give equal rights to registered partners or to legalize same-sex marriage have generally been blocked by the CDU/CSU, the main party in government since 2005. All other main parties (SPD, The Greens, The Left and FDP) support full LGBT equality. The Federal Constitutional Court of Germany has however issued various rulings in favor of equal rights for same-sex registered partners (such as joint tax filing benefits), requiring the governing coalition to change the law.

Many residents in Birmingham, suburbs and nearby rural areas tend to be ultra conservative. I hope the DA is not expecting the jury to convict based on his lifestyle without more evidence. I still don't understand why he would murder Karen. He could have even taken her to Europe with him and left her while overseas. I ponder why he felt the need to kill his wife and his sons' Mother to pursue a same sex relationship. Doesn't make sense to me.
 
  • #252
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  • #254

Attachments

  • Former Homewood pastor Richard Lee Shahan, left, leaves the Jefferson County Jail in Birmingham,.jpg
    Former Homewood pastor Richard Lee Shahan, left, leaves the Jefferson County Jail in Birmingham,.jpg
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  • #255
Why do we think murder has to make sense? Does any murder make sense?
 
  • #256
  • #257
  • #258
My two cents -

After throwing this new "boyfriend scandal" and RS's future plans into the mix in this case, I now think the murder of his wife made things much harder on RS and think his defense will have a great argument for reasonable doubt...if the facts as we know them now are the actual facts, which I assume they are likely not, but whatever....

IF RS was already planning on going on a solo (no one else from his local church) mission trip for three years to Russia or wherever and these plans were known to everyone, as well as funded and endorsed by his church family, then he already had the perfect situation for him to escape his current life and start a brand new one with anonymity (theoretically). The murder of his wife only complicated things immensely since there would be an investigation, etc. Even if he was quickly eliminated as a suspect, the ongoing investigation would just present numerous problems for him.

If his wife is alive, he leaves to a grand sendoff by her and the church as he embarks on this three-year mission trip where he will be making personal sacrifices in order to do the Lord's work. So, this provides him with three years where he can still be in contact with everyone back home where he is considered to this great Christian man AND continue to receive their unquestioned financial support, as well as the "freedom" to plan and execute his ultimate end game. For someone who plans to begin a new life in a new country, whether if be with another man/woman or not, this three year "headstart" would be like a Christmas gift. When the time came for him to return home, he could simply disappear and never return to the US. He would be remembered as the missionary who probably met a tragic end in a dangerous, foreign land while doing the Lord's work. Of course this would cause his family great pain, but he's not concerned about his family's feelings or whether his actions hurt them anyway, so that part doesn't matter to him. Whether he actually planned on continuing a life with a new male or female partner doesn't really matter at that point since he had already made his "escape" from his "real life."

If his wife is murdered, all of these great plans are ruined. He can no longer make an "easy" escape, which means he can no longer do any of the other things listed above. Not only is the easy escape gone, but now every tiny detail of his personal life is going to be looked at and analyzed. His affair with a gay lover is guaranteed to be discovered pretty quickly, which not only gives him an apparent motive for the murder, but it also exposes the ONLY thing that can really "hurt" him in all aspects of his life. In this scenario, he would have had to assume he would lose pretty much everything he cared about and the potential to explore new options, even if he somehow escaped conviction for murder. It is possible he isn't the brightest bulb and didn't think this through as thoroughly as I. :blushing: If this was the case, I would think even with his compromised intelligence he would still figure out he should make any murder look as little like a murder and as much like an accident as possible so he would have the hope of it being ruled an accident/suicide/etc. However, this is not the way the murder occured. Based on the facts, if he did it, it was after she discovered his plans and confronted him about them. Whether she outright threatened to leave him or tell others, he felt she would ruin all of his careful planning and he killed her out of rage and fear.

Based on the above, I have concluded that either a) He didn't do it and has the worst luck possible b) he did it and is a complete moron c) he did it after she discovered his plans and it was in an unplanned rage. :takeabow:
 
  • #259
Why is there so much doubt about this man's guilt? Why is it so hard to believe?
 
  • #260
Why is there so much doubt about this man's guilt? Why is it so hard to believe?

Because there is as yet no evidence for his guilt.

There has to be a basis for belief, otherwise it is false belief.
 

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