Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[Betty P]

"Clearly production thought better of it (grounds for termination), decided to roll the dice and pay the ultimate price.”
more like russian roulette

Another thing, according to another article upthread, the armorer removed the blanks before she handed the gun to police. That's interfering with evidence in a death investigation.

If that's accurate, she's in big trouble. There weren't supposed to be any blanks in the gun.

Overall, I'm not sure she'll face any criminal charges. (JMO) It was a homicide, but not an intentional one, it was accidental. There will be lots of civil lawsuits, though. All those cost cutting bean counters in Hollywood will be paying for this.

JMO IANAL

 

[Alethea]

Maybe I am naïve and stupid, but with all the money in the movie industry, they couldn't have invented realistic looking fake guns?

Is it that actors and directors want to feel powerful playing with real guns? What is the point of using a real operational gun instead of a plastic or non-operational replica?

The fantasy and superhero movies they make take place on other planets. They can't use safe (non-functional) guns?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Dean Cain: Live rounds should be nowhere near a movie set

 

[whitelilac]

If that's accurate, she's in big trouble. There weren't supposed to be any blanks in the gun.

Overall, I'm not sure she'll face any criminal charges. (JMO) It was a homicide, but not an intentional one, it was accidental. There will be lots of civil lawsuits, though. All those cost cutting bean counters in Hollywood will be paying for this.

JMO IANAL

I looked for where I saw it. I don't know anything about guns, blanks etc.
However, she did manipulate that gun before giving it to the police.....interfering with evidence.
"After the shot was fired, the affidavit states that the armorer was given the prop gun and then removed the “spent casing” from the weapon before giving it to the police."
Alec Baldwin Told Prop Gun Was Safe Before Fatal Shooting - Variety

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Maybe I am naïve and stupid, but with all the money in the movie industry, they couldn't have invented realistic looking fake guns?

Is it that actors and directors want to feel powerful playing with real guns? What is the point of using a real operational gun instead of a plastic or non-operational replica?

The fantasy and superhero movies they make take place on other planets. They can't use safe (non-functional) guns?

In the Dean Cain video I linked he talked about using rubber/fake guns during rehearsals. If they had done that in this case no one would have died or been injured. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Critics of prop guns call for CGI to be the standard—even though the shots look less realistic, there is much less risk to the actors and crew on set.

Blanks Ban? Baldwin Shooting Renews Calls To End Prop Gun Use

 

[MsMarple]

Maybe I am naïve and stupid, but with all the money in the movie industry, they couldn't have invented realistic looking fake guns?

Is it that actors and directors want to feel powerful playing with real guns? What is the point of using a real operational gun instead of a plastic or non-operational replica?

The fantasy and superhero movies they make take place on other planets. They can't use safe (non-functional) guns?

Seriously! It seems like the bullet chamber or whatever you call it could be engineered with a small notch or block to prevent regular bullets from even being loaded and at the same time redesign blanks to fit.

My guess is that it's not cost effective for a gun company to do so but why couldn't the stage guns at least be retro fitted to avoid fitting real bullets? I bet an MIT student could figure it out.

 

[Gardenista]

Maybe I am naïve and stupid, but with all the money in the movie industry, they couldn't have invented realistic looking fake guns?

Is it that actors and directors want to feel powerful playing with real guns? What is the point of using a real operational gun instead of a plastic or non-operational replica?

The fantasy and superhero movies they make take place on other planets. They can't use safe (non-functional) guns?

From what I've read recently, air soft guns are used widely and are realistic. Muzzle flash and smoke are added post-production. The reason they use real guns is because of the kick. I guess it's hard to act that? Plus in a film like Rust, they probably don't make antique air soft guns that would fit the period of the film.

I could be wrong on all of the above though, so anyone feel free to jump in and correct me.

 

[neesaki]

We don't know exactly what happened, where she was, or if she was involved. At this point in time, we know of only three people who were part of this, the shooter, Alec Baldwin, and two victims.

I’m behind, so maybe already discussed, I know I asked once about who loaded the gun. So, someone had to load the gun. Since it wasn’t supposed to be loaded with real live ammo, wouldn’t they be a suspect in this case?
<modsnip - no link>

Why have all the cases I’ve followed recently seem to make no sense.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I don’t disagree with you about training and more safety when it comes to weapons on set. But no, I don’t expect an actor to know how to open a weapon and check properly. Actors are BSers—and I say that with love. I was an actor. They might be convincing that they know what they’re doing, but they don’t. I did a commercial one time where I was supposed to be some kind of athlete. Wardrobe put me in clothes, took me to set, and I was handed some sort of racket. I had NO IDEA what kind or what kind of sports person I was supposed to be. Still don’t! But I looked like I did!
I know a racket is not a gun, and I appreciate the safety differences. But we don’t expect actors who play doctors to learn how perform surgery. Or to guarantee the safety of any of the props they’re handed. I would love it if every actor who ever handles a gun is knowledgeable enough to even know how to open it and check and know what they’re looking at, but it will never happen. I think using actual weapons in film and TV is an unnecessary risk. MOO

Yes. An actor not knowing how to check a gun is not the problem. Using real guns to begin with is the problem.

Think about this. We wouldn't need all these people from armorer down to be doing all this stuff if they just used replicas and added the sound afterwards.

This conversation would not be happening. We wouldn't be counting the dead or injured or the number of folks responsible.

 

[Dotta]

The atmosphere on the set was toxic it seems.
Long hours, constant rush, yelling assistant director, etc.
Why was he yelling at staff?
I cant imagine my boss shouting at me!
Isnt it mobbing??
Well, one must be really determined to stay in this kind of career to endure such treatment
<modsnip - no link>

 

[Deleted member 158085]

From the article in AB’s tweet:

After the shot was fired, the affidavit states that the armorer was given the prop gun and then removed the “spent casing” from the weapon before giving it to the police. Baldwin was wearing clothing consistent with a costume for the film (“Old Western style clothing”) but changed and also gave his clothes to the police, who said they “appeared to have blood stains,” as the Times reported.

The Albuquerque Journal, which obtained audio of the 911 call from set, reported that a woman who identified herself as a script supervisor said, “We’ve had two people accidentally shot by a prop gun; we need help immediately.”

When asked if the gun was loaded with a real bullet, the caller replied: “I don’t… I can’t tell you that… And this (expletive) AD that yelled at me at lunch – asking about revisions, this mother (expletive) – he’s supposed to check the guns, he’s responsible for what happens on the set.”

Alec Baldwin Told Prop Gun Was Safe Before Fatal Shooting - Variety

I wonder if her feelings about who is to blame are what's widely felt on the set. Wow!

 

[Satchie]

Dean Cain: Live rounds should be nowhere near a movie set

I think this is the relevant point. Who brought real bullets onto the set? Why would anybody do that?

So was this an accident?
-somehow there's a box of live bullets sitting there and the label came off the box?
-a box of blank bullets was purchased or made by hand and some live ones got mixed in?
- someone took the gun off set and used real bullets, forgetting to take them out before putting the gun back?

Or

Was this deliberate sabotage by a crew member?

 

[whitelilac]

I wonder if her feelings about who is to blame are what's widely felt on the set. Wow!

The script supervisor herself could have been shot as well.

"The film’s script supervisor, Mamie Mitchell, said she was standing next to Hutchins when she was shot."
Podcast reveals 'Rust' armorer's feelings about previous job: 'I was really nervous'

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Maybe I am naïve and stupid, but with all the money in the movie industry, they couldn't have invented realistic looking fake guns?

Is it that actors and directors want to feel powerful playing with real guns? What is the point of using a real operational gun instead of a plastic or non-operational replica?

The fantasy and superhero movies they make take place on other planets. They can't use safe (non-functional) guns?

They absolutely can make realistic repos that don't have the ability to fire a thing.

 

[whitelilac]

Director Adam Egypt Mortimer who worked with Ms Hutchins on the 2020 action film Archenemy speaks.
He said that on the film with Hutchins there were a lot of gun fire scenes, but NONE of the guns had any kind of projectiles or blanks, and still the safety protocols were in place.
He finds the whole tragedy unfathomable.

Death after Alec Baldwin fires prop gun 'unfathomable'

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Let's say that the film industry changes the practice of using prop guns that can fire live ammunition and goes to CGI instead. That would solve this one problem.

Obviously safety protocols were not followed on this set. What about all of the people injured or killed on movie sets that didn't involve prop guns? Should there be more emphasis on closely following all safety protocols and not just ones related to prop guns?

Deaths and injuries to film and TV workers, by the numbers

Serious film and television set accidents in United States, 1990-2014: At least 194

https://apnews.com/article/1c3b5d70ff544a1bbd2643f7ce26e5d1

 

[Marysmith]

Let's say that the film industry changes the practice of using prop guns that can fire live ammunition and goes to CGI instead. That would solve this one problem.

Obviously safety protocols were not followed on this set. What about all of the people injured or killed on movie sets that didn't involve prop guns? Should there be more emphasis on closely following all safety protocols and not just ones related to prop guns?

Deaths and injuries to film and TV workers, by the numbers


https://apnews.com/article/1c3b5d70ff544a1bbd2643f7ce26e5d1

For sure.
This whole story is crazy. I thought there was lots of money in the entertainment industry and I can’t believe the cost cutting here. Disgusting for crew to not be put into a basic hotel room in Santa Fe and having to sleep in a car! Wow.

 

[DWebster]

I think this is the relevant point. Who brought real bullets onto the set? Why would anybody do that?

So was this an accident?
-somehow there's a box of live bullets sitting there and the label came off the box?
-a box of blank bullets was purchased or made by hand and some live ones got mixed in?
- someone took the gun off set and used real bullets, forgetting to take them out before putting the gun back?

Or

Was this deliberate sabotage by a crew member?

Live ammo and blanks don't look the same. It's not a matter of a labeled box, I wouldn't think.

If I had to guess where the live round came from ... we have a big ol' ranch we're filming on and a really cool vintage single action colt revolver. Let's put a couple cans up on the fence post and see how well she shoots. So we do a little target practice. Maybe we did it when other people weren't around. Maybe we think we spent all the rounds. Who knows. Then the layers of safety checks failed as nobody, from the people target practicing to the armorer to the AD to the actor, actually looked at that weapon to make sure it was clear. Sloppy and sad. I'll be interested to hear what the other victim has to say....

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Exactly, the cinematographer is responsible for how the recording looks, they are looking at the little screen attached to the camera as the video rolls and instructing the camera operator to pan, zoom in, zoom out, etc.

Evidently, she was filming AB shooting directly at the camera/movie audience. This is so common in films, it's cliche.

“We’ve all seen the very famous shots in films where you get that dramatic effect of a gun being pointed at you, the audience, and of course, it’s being pointed towards the camera,” explained Steven Hall, a veteran second unit director and cinematographer who has worked on films like “Fury” and “Thor: The Dark World.” “To minimize that, one would put a remote camera in that place, or at least if someone does have to operate the camera, I’m normally protected by safety goggles, a safety visor and often a PERSPEX screen that withstands pretty much anything. Obviously, it wouldn’t withstand a real shot from a gun, but it would certainly withstand a blank.”

EXPLAINER: Guns on movie sets: How does that work?