Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[BeckyF]

DBM

 

[10ofRods]

In the end, no matter the outcome, AB has to live with the fact he killed someone. Bottom line for him IMO.

That's true of all people who kill others - but oh so many killers face additional consequences.

 

[10ofRods]

But why is he behaving this way???
Im shocked ppl want to work with him!
I think he is finished now.

He came cheap.

 

[10ofRods]

MOO

From all I’ve heard, a vintage revolver could fire if it were dropped, which indeed would be an accidental discharge. I’m not claiming that this applies to this situation, however.

MOO

Exceptionally rare for a Colt revolver, IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Involuntary Manslaughter
According to Matthew Nash, Attorney-at-law (California) and Bar Practice Tutor at The University of Law, Baldwin could face an involuntary manslaughter charge. Baldwin could face such a charge if he was found to be reckless in his handling of the prop gun, if, for example, he discharged the weapon despite being advised not to.

"It would appear that under New Mexico law, Alec Baldwin could be guilty of involuntary manslaughter, which is a killing that takes place without due caution and circumspection," Nash told Newsweek.

Under the fourth-degree felony "the maximum penalty under New Mexico law would be a fine of $5,000 or an 18-month prison sentence," said Nash.

Involuntary manslaughter, under the New Mexico law, does not require "specific intent" of wanting a person's death.

However, even from this angle, criminal charges would be unusual, as fatal on-set shootings with prop guns have historically been ruled as accidents, notes Judge Gertner, Retired Judge, U.S. District Ct., D. Mass. One of the most prominent examples of this is the 1993 death of Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow.

Could Alec Baldwin face jail time for fatal shooting? Legal experts weigh In

What if he discharged it when the director had not yet started shooting? What if he discharged it outside the parameters of that scene?

Because, from what I hear, he wasn't supposed to be shooting at the director or the cinematographer. When a shot is needed of someone aiming directly at the camera - it has to be blocked very very carefully and rehearsed many times without anyone pulling a trigger (would be a good reason to use a rubber gun).

AFAIK, no scene they were shooting that day called for Baldwin to shoot AT the camera (it's a rare thing to do). When it is done, a remote is used to operate the camera (and there's bullet proof glass in front of the camera - they are expensive).

"Cold gun!" shout (when it wasn't) is bad enough. Shooting a prop gun AT people when it's not on script and the cameras aren't rolling is very peculiar. Lax director? Substance use on the set? What was going on?

 

[mickey2942]

I guess that the director wanted the "drama" of an actual "shot". Otherwise, couldn't they have just removed the firing pin? No pin, no shot.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I guess that the director wanted the "drama" of an actual "shot". Otherwise, couldn't they have just removed the firing pin? No pin, no shot.

They were rehearsing. They didn't need to modify a real gun they should have used a fake rubber gun that only costs $80.

Single Action Revolver with 5 1/2'' Barrel Rubber Gun

 

[Thinker22]

Surely only qualified gun handlers like ex military or police should be armourers, is there any kind of other formal qualification one can obtain that would be a decent level? I just can’t get over the fact they were using a gun meant for a scene for target practice .. sounds like the whole set was shambles.

MOO: Someone was probably taking advantage of the young armorer by pressuring her to let them take the vintage revolvers out for some off-set fun. Sounds like she was not appropriately qualified anyway.

 

[Thinker22]

I guess that the director wanted the "drama" of an actual "shot". Otherwise, couldn't they have just removed the firing pin? No pin, no shot.

Vintage Colt revolvers didn't/don't have a "firing pin"; the pin is on the hammer and not detachable.

 

[Warwick1991]

I'm wondering about he terms "Hot gun" & "Cold gun". This article states that a Cold Gun would have no ammo of any sort in it:
So if a cold gun shouldn't contain a blank round, does that mean that a gun with a blank round would be considered "Hot"? Or is there another term - like say maybe "warm"?

This article includes comments indicating that, after the shooting, AB had asked who gave him a Hot Gun & that,

So if a gun loaded with a blank is NOT a Cold gun, does that mean a gun loaded with a blank is a Hot gun? And if it is a Hot gun, and if AB has "never been handed a Hot gun" in all his years, does that mean that he's never actually held a gun containing a blank round in all of his years of acting? Or is there some confusion around these terms?

The first article I linked to does also include a statement that a gun containing a blank round is said to be "live" though as well.

I understand that it is believed that this gun had a live round in it that included a non-blank round with a projectile. But I find it hard to believe that anyone could confuse a Cold gun (supposedly with absolutely no sort of round in the gun) with one that held either a fully live round or a blank live round when the gun was a revolver with the cylinders clearly visible at a simple glance. Could they have thought that the gun held a dummy round with no gun powder of any sort which would then qualify it as being a Cold gun?

There are very very clear reasons that everyone knows (or *should* know) that a gun should NEVER be pointed at anyone regardless of its status of being hot, cold, live, or prop. You just do not do that.

Unfortunately, in a Western style single action revolver, the presence of ammunition cannot be determined with a single glance. The presence of a round can be hidden by the frame. There is a specific method of turning the cylinder to see if any of the 6 chambers in the cylinder are loaded. Usually, one has to put the hammer at “half-” to rotate the cylinder sufficiently to verify whether there is a round inside. As far as blanks vs live ordinary rounds, it is safer to remove the round and examine it. Blanks have a very different profile than regular ammunition, visible at the front of the round.

 

[Thinker22]

There were 1880 era revolvers (and modern replicas) that loaded through a "side gate" and had a fixed cylinder. .

Do you happen to have a link for that? I'd love to read more about it.

 

[Warwick1991]

Exceptionally rare for a Colt revolver, IMO.

The majority of traditional Western style single action revolvers, including the Colt .45, will fire if they are dropped and have all 6 chambers loaded. One chamber aligns with the hammer, and if the revolver is dropped, the hammer strikes the primer and the round is fired. Only the modern Ruger, which has a transfer bar safety, and some similar copies, might be able to be dropped without an accidental discharge. I own a Ruger single action because it is safer than its Colt ancestor.

 

[Cryptic]

Vintage Colt revolvers didn't/don't have a "firing pin"; the pin is on the hammer and not detachable.

The majority of traditional Western style single action revolvers, including the Colt .45, will fire if they are dropped and have all 6 chambers loaded.

Do you guys know if Old West replicas made by this company ( I am thinking the vintage Colt might not of been truly vintage, but a modern replica of a vintage Colt) have retained the lack of a firing pin and design flaws of the original?

Or, do they have modern firing pins and safety features?

Quality Replica Guns of the Old West | Uberti

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Do you happen to have a link for that? I'd love to read more about it.

How to load a Colt Single Action Revolver:

Edit: Note that we do not know this was the type of firearm used; I was responding to a general question about "side load" revolvers.

 

[Arkay]

Those regulations probably don't apply when a movie is being filmed in a state without those kind of laws.

I am 100% ignorant about guns and 99% ignorant about movie sets.

I'm wondering if TV sets are bound by the same laws as movie sets?

I'm more of a TV fan than a movie fan, and I remember GUNS GUNS GUNS on Breaking Bad, which was also filmed in New Mexico. There doesn't seem to have ever been a problem with the guns, real or fake, on that set. Does anyone here know? TIA

 

[Warwick1991]

Do you guys know if Old West replicas made by this company ( I am thinking the vintage Colt might not of been truly vintage, but a modern replica of a vintage Colt) have retained the lack of a firing pin and design flaws of the original?

Or, do they have modern firing pins and safety features?

Quality Replica Guns of the Old West | Uberti

I think most Uberti reproductions in the past haven’t included the transfer bar safety, but in recent years many models do. At first, they stayed true to the original Colt design, but over time, they have included some safety features.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

All known hard facts and theories about the incident aside, how does one ever recover from accidentally killing someone? Has got to be excruciating. Soul-crushing.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Unfortunately, in a Western style single action revolver, the presence of ammunition cannot be determined with a single glance. The presence of a round can be hidden by the frame. There is a specific method of turning the cylinder to see if any of the 6 chambers in the cylinder are loaded. Usually, one has to put the hammer at “half-” to rotate the cylinder sufficiently to verify whether there is a round inside. As far as blanks vs live ordinary rounds, it is safer to remove the round and examine it. Blanks have a very different profile than regular ammunition, visible at the front of the round.

How much time does it take to put the gun on half ,open the loading gate and spin the cylinder to see if every chamber is empty? Not very long IMO.

They were rehearsing so the gun should have been empty. If the AD or Alec Baldwin had done this simple task this tragedy could have been avoided. JMO.

 

[tayaway]

How to load a Colt Single Action Revolver:

Great instructional vid! Too bad it wasn't required viewing for all crew/actors involved in the tragic shooting.

 

[IceIce9]

Focusing on AD Dave Halls and Hannah Gutierrez

The outrage and disbelief over the death of “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, shot by actor and producer Alec Baldwin during rehearsal of a scene Thursday, have many in the Hollywood production community talking about one man at the center of the tragedy: first assistant director Dave Halls.

According to a search warrant filed by the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Department and obtained by the Associated Press, Halls picked up one of three guns from a mobile cart that had been prepared by the production’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed. Halls allegedly declared “cold gun,” meaning the weapon was not loaded, as he was handing it to Baldwin

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...ave-halls?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true