All things Joe Paterno

[JaimeSommers]

What message. He didn't retire to spend more time with the family, health reasons, let the new coach bring in his own people, or any other message. This was "I'm outta here." Even the papal resignation was less abrupt, unless Ganter is planning a bid for the Seat of Peter!

Ha! I hear you. What I meant was, control the timing of the message (press release) to get him out of there without the attention and build-up an advance announcement would bring. I would expect nothing less from the Borg. What does surprise me, though, is that someone like Lubrano hasn't spouted off (unless I missed it). That silence says more to me.

 

[Rlaub44]

What message. He didn't retire to spend more time with the family, health reasons, let the new coach bring in his own people, or any other message. This was "I'm outta here." Even the papal resignation was less abrupt, unless Ganter is planning a bid for the Seat of Peter!

That's what made the announcement so strange. If it had been crafted well in advance, one would expect the usual reasons; "looking forward to spending time with grandkids, looking into what else life has for me, etc."

There was nothing. Then after agreeing to an interview with Neil Rudel of the Altoona Mirror, who has a longstanding relationship with the PSU staff, Ganter changed his mind, preferring to let the press release stand for itself.

Perhaps it is Sandusky related, and he didn't want to face questions about it. Perhaps he was forced out, and didn't trust himself not to blast O'Brien or Joyner or whomever.

The point is, this does not appear to be your run-of-the-mill retirement, and if O'Brien had a hand in his ouster, then it appears the University has learned nothing from the national criticism it faced regarding Paterno's perceived power.

If it was cleaning house of the old guard, why not when Guido D'Elia was let go? Or was Ganter over-involved in what BOB sees as his domain?

Can't see how Dr. Sebastianelli was an issue, unless there is some truth to the speculation way back about why it was Drug Task Force Agent Sassano that first put the pieces together about Sandusky while investigating something else - could there be Performance Enhancing Drugs involved, and there may be new charges upcoming related to that earlier investigation, that affects both Ganter and Dr. Sebastianelli? This is all just speculation, but I'm trying to understand how these staff changes might relate to the other things we have been learning about.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ha! I hear you. What I meant was, control the timing of the message (press release) to get him out of there without the attention and build-up an advance announcement would bring. I would expect nothing less from the Borg. What does surprise me, though, is that someone like Lubrano hasn't spouted off (unless I missed it). That silence says more to me.

Maybe not. If this was in the works, announce it earlier, come up with some plausible cover story, and nobody, other than us, would find it strange. The interview, or lack thereof, is very strange. I don't think Ganter wants to be in a position where he publicly misleads anyone. It is a hard position to be in.

 

[BigCat]

I'm not too sure about that. Based on the need to rid the football program of all ties to Paterno, I have a feeling Ganter would have suffered the same fate as Tom Bradley did - he would likely have been named the interim coach, but passed over for an outsider and not retained.

I agree. Based on his resume, Bradley should be making $500,000 a year at a major university right now. Currently, he's not even coaching. Too much baggage.

Here's a blog I found, written back in 2008, about Ganter and his departure from coaching:

http://blog.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2008/07/where_for_art_thou_fran.html

The biggest noise from Ganter this season was something only those on the sideline could have heard. Sports Illustrated reported that Ganter threw his headset to the ground and yelled "That's a [expletive] play!" after Michael Robinson, a right-handed quarterback, rolled left on a fourth-and-three play late in the still-winnable Minnesota game and ended up throwing the ball away.

The play was apparently called by Jay Paterno. Ganter's reaction was far from the most extreme. Many Penn State fans said, "That was a [expletive] [expletive] call."

So Ganter simmers. The look you see in Ganter's eye on TV is in too many Penn State eyes this year.

It is defeat.

It is resignation

Maybe that's what we're to read from all this silence. Maybe Fran Ganter understands what is going on here. Maybe he has realized that Paterno simply can not and will not leave football. Maybe Ganter knows he will get older and older while a program he has given over 30 years of his life to deteriorates for everyone to see.

No way Ganter was happy about being saddled with Jay Paterno and Mike McQueary as his assistants on offense. In my opinion, and the opinion of many Penn State fans, neither one is a capable coach. Just look at how much the offense improved this season, especially the quarterback play, under Bill O'Brien, a man with experience coaching at the highest level.

 

[JaimeSommers]

RS&BBM ...

Then after agreeing to an interview with Neil Rudel of the Altoona Mirror, who has a longstanding relationship with the PSU staff, Ganter changed his mind, preferring to let the press release stand for itself.

Did Ganter change his mind, or did the University change it for him?

 

[JaimeSommers]

RS&BBM

The point is, this does not appear to be your run-of-the-mill retirement, and if O'Brien had a hand in his ouster, then it appears the University has learned nothing from the national criticism it faced regarding Paterno's perceived power.

With absolute total respect to your perspective, I disagree. Why shouldn't BOB have a say in who the physician for his players is? BOB has a vision for the team -- he gave Sebastianelli a year to prove he has what it takes to help BOB realize that vision. If Sebastianelli resisted change or -- as frequently happens here -- tried to circumvent the work of BOB, then he needs to go. Attrition is always a part of a regime change -- entrenched staff who resist the changes of a new leader leave voluntarily or involuntarily eventually.

Had BOB gotten rid of Sebastianelli when he was first hired, that would have seemed more like a power play to me. Sebastianelli was given a year -- very fair, IMO. I see a lot of entrenched people here who have been far too comfortable for far too long -- they don't like change and think they have all the answers. BOB has some new answers and I can understand why he'd want people who can ask some new questions. All IMO and with total respect.

If it was cleaning house of the old guard, why not when Guido D'Elia was let go?

It's apples and oranges, IMO. Guido's function was completely different than Sebastianelli's and Ganter's. If I were the new football coach at Penn State, I would have started with Marketing, too. New day, new brand.

Or was Ganter over-involved in what BOB sees as his domain?

Or not at all involved and doing little to nothing to warrant his salary?

Under Paterno, the Athletics sports nutritionist was barred from the football facility. IMO, it says a lot about BOB that one of the first things he did was open the doors to her and give her an office in the building. New answers.

 

[Twindad]

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/021712aac.html

A long time friend of Joyner's gets a new job!

It is beginning to look like PSU is trying to build an NFL team. Why would a highly respected physician with a reputation of caring about the players be incompatible with that?

I've noticed Joyner the describes the football program as a product now.
http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2013/01/penn_state_ad_david_joyner_tal.html
"I think that, I'm really looking forward to another great experience next fall with our football program. We're going to have a great schedule next year. I think that fans are going to see a product on the field from (football coach) Bill O'Brien that they've gotten used to and I think they like very much.''

Sounds dehumanizing. I expect to see bigger, faster football players at PSU soon.
I guess the "Grand Experiment" is no more.

 

[JaimeSommers]

RS&BBM ...

It is beginning to look like PSU is trying to build an NFL team. Why would a highly respected physician with a reputation of caring about the players be incompatible with that?

Respectfully, I don't understand why folks think O'Brien would or should keep everything the same. New coaches bring new visions, just like new CEOs, new deans, new University presidents, new U.S. presidents, new district attorneys, new governors, new executive directors, and on and on. IMO, there's something wrong with a new leader *not* shaking things up after getting the lay of the land his/her first year.

I've noticed Joyner the describes the football program as a product now.

I'm not a fan of Joyner's in any way, shape, or form, but "product" doesn't bother me in the context of the sentence.

I guess the "Grand Experiment" is no more.

Respectfully, it ceased to exist a long time ago.

 

[Rlaub44]

RS&BBM
With absolute total respect to your perspective, I disagree. Why shouldn't BOB have a say in who the physician for his players is?

And while I respect your opinion, Bionic Woman, remember that this isn't the NFL. O'Brien is a college coach who may have a say in selecting his assistant coaches, but the choice of team doctor and other staff should probably rightfully be handled by the athletic director. My understanding of the team physician is that he wouldn't have much if any day-to-day interaction with O'Brien, so as long as he was competently performing his job, why should the coach get to replace him?

And Penn State's position is different than any other college in the country because of the perception of Paterno's overarching control. The University should be careful not to give the impression that the "football culture" is out of control, in my opinion.

It's apples and oranges, IMO. Guido's function was completely different than Sebastianelli's and Ganter's. If I were the new football coach at Penn State, I would have started with Marketing, too. New day, new brand.

So are you thinking BOB was involved in D'Elia's dismissal? Why would he change something he had never witnessed in action? And again, is that his call or the AD?

Or not at all involved and doing little to nothing to warrant his salary?

Again, I would question if BOB was the right person to make that determination. Remember, Ganter was his superior, not the other way around. JoePa got a lot of flack for his role in Vicki Triponey's term at PSU being cut short (after the Sandusky scandal broke); why should BOB get to choose who his bosses should be? Again, this is only IMO, and with respect to yours.

 

[Rlaub44]

RS&BBM ...



Did Ganter change his mind, or did the University change it for him?

What control do you think they may hold over a former employee? Do you think he was "allowed to retire" in lieu of a dismissal, and signed an agreement that he wouldn't comment publicly on the terms?

 

[JaimeSommers]

What control do you think they may hold over a former employee? Do you think he was "allowed to retire" in lieu of a dismissal, and signed an agreement that he wouldn't comment publicly on the terms?

Yes, I absolutely believe he would have been asked to honor a confidentiality agreement as part of the exit plan. This is not uncommon here, depending on the circumstances of departure (key point).

If I'm remembering correctly, Paterno was going to hold a press conference in November 2011 until the University squashed it.

 

[JaimeSommers]

RS&BBM ...

And Penn State's position is different than any other college in the country because of the perception of Paterno's overarching control. The University should be careful not to give the impression that the "football culture" is out of control, in my opinion.

I agree 100% that there is a perception about Paterno's control, but I disagree that it makes the University different than any other college in the country. Saban and Alabama immediately come to mind, as does Meyer's time at Florida.

So are you thinking BOB was involved in D'Elia's dismissal? Why would he change something he had never witnessed in action? And again, is that his call or the AD?

My understanding is that Guido was brought in by Joe and that he and Joe were very close. Guido was responsible for the "game day experience." When we'd want to promote something at the stadium, we went through Guido. (Interesting that we didn't have to do that to promote something at the Jordan Center.) Like I mentioned in a previous post, if I were the new football coach at Penn State (or Alabama, Ohio State, etc.) -- and I knew the Marketing guy had been brought in by my predecessor and was a friend -- and the circumstances surrounding the departure of my predecessor had been unprecedented -- I'd want a change.

That said, I don't know if BOB was directly related to Guido's departure, but it doesn't surprise me that he was a casualty given his relationship with Paterno.

Again, I would question if BOB was the right person to make that determination. Remember, Ganter was his superior, not the other way around.

Perhaps on an org chart, but the University has a habit of elevating people into positions of authority -- where they have no actual authority -- until they retire. I can say that more than a few of us forgot Ganter was even still here.

JoePa got a lot of flack for his role in Vicki Triponey's term at PSU being cut short (after the Sandusky scandal broke)

Yes, he did. Like most bad breakups, there are two sides and the truth is usually somewhere in-between.

Why should BOB get to choose who his bosses should be?

I wish I could tell you that people don't have influence over to whom they report at Penn State. The fact is, in some cases, they do. I feel confident speculating it happens elsewhere, too.

Now, having said all that, my understanding is there are quite a few people in conflict with Joyner right now, BOB being one of them. We don't know what Joyner promised BOB when wooing him here.

 

[Twindad]

Here is some of what was offered.
http://cumberlink.com/sports/penn-s...cle_b6bfa94a-572e-11e1-9ee8-0019bb2963f4.html
http://thewifehatessports.com/2012/...y-and-contract-details-released-by-penn-state
http://progress.psu.edu/assets/content/OBrien,_Bill_Contract_Agreement.pdf

 

[Rlaub44]

Yes, I absolutely believe he would have been asked to honor a confidentiality agreement as part of the exit plan. This is not uncommon here, depending on the circumstances of departure (key point).

If I'm remembering correctly, Paterno was going to hold a press conference in November 2011 until the University squashed it.

That is correct, but he had not yet been fired, and so the University had greater control over him than the retired Ganter.

As for Ganter, the confidentiality agreement may cover terms of his leaving, but he could have kept the interview and just made those topics off-limits.

The funny thing is, two weeks ago, I was arguing that the October 1998 meeting with Ganter had nothing to do with Sandusky; now the sudden retirement combined with the cancelled interview has me wondering if Ganter isn't more involved than I believed.

 

[Rlaub44]

RS&BBM ...
I agree 100% that there is a perception about Paterno's control, but I disagree that it makes the University different than any other college in the country. Saban and Alabama immediately come to mind, as does Meyer's time at Florida.

What makes Penn State different from Alabama and most other D1 football pwerhouses is that the others haven't been singled out by the NCAA, ESPN, and all other media outlets for headlines because of their "football culture". Even at Ohio State, when President Gordon Gee joked that he hoped Jim Tressel didn't fire him, the backlash wasn't nearly as great. It is the national perception that Penn State was worse in that aspect than the others.

My understanding is that Guido was brought in by Joe and that he and Joe were very close. Guido was responsible for the "game day experience." When we'd want to promote something at the stadium, we went through Guido. (Interesting that we didn't have to do that to promote something at the Jordan Center.) Like I mentioned in a previous post, if I were the new football coach at Penn State (or Alabama, Ohio State, etc.) -- and I knew the Marketing guy had been brought in by my predecessor and was a friend -- and the circumstances surrounding the departure of my predecessor had been unprecedented -- I'd want a change.

That said, I don't know if BOB was directly related to Guido's departure, but it doesn't surprise me that he was a casualty given his relationship with Paterno.

They apparently were close friends, and Guido was a confidant to Paterno. I always assumed it was Joyner who wanted to continue to erase all of Paterno's history and ties by dismissing D'Elia.

Perhaps on an org chart, but the University has a habit of elevating people into positions of authority -- where they have no actual authority -- until they retire. I can say that more than a few of us forgot Ganter was even still here.

And that was the rap against Paterno; when he convinced Curley and Spanier that he had a few years left, it was portrayed that he didn't allow them to fire him. So that negative connotation in mind, I am skeptical that the new coach of 1 year is firing the Assistant Athletic Director with 46 years in the program. That was why I indicated that if there was any truth to that rumor, it appears the University didn't learn its lesson.

Yes, he did. Like most bad breakups, there are two sides and the truth is usually somewhere in-between.

Agreed. Frankly got very tired of the media coverage portraying Triponey as the innocent victim of the evil Paterno.

I wish I could tell you that people don't have influence over to whom they report at Penn State. The fact is, in some cases, they do. I feel confident speculating it happens elsewhere, too.

Now, having said all that, my understanding is there are quite a few people in conflict with Joyner right now, BOB being one of them. We don't know what Joyner promised BOB when wooing him here.

True. Your first sentence in that paragraph is more in line with what I believe happened to Ganter (and possibly Sebastianelli) - I could believe they ran afoul of Joyner, who from all accounts feels very comfortable in his new role, and were forced out, as Joyner obviously has the backing of Erickson, which then also gives him the power players on the board of Trustees.

 

[RR0004]

On a positive note...
http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2013/03/penn_state_football_team_joins.html

I'd like to think that Joe is somewhere smiling.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That is correct, but he had not yet been fired, and so the University had greater control over him than the retired Ganter.

As for Ganter, the confidentiality agreement may cover terms of his leaving, but he could have kept the interview and just made those topics off-limits.

The funny thing is, two weeks ago, I was arguing that the October 1998 meeting with Ganter had nothing to do with Sandusky; now the sudden retirement combined with the cancelled interview has me wondering if Ganter isn't more involved than I believed.

In 2010, I described Gricar as "a prosecutor who would pursue even difficult cases in the interest of justice, not for his own political interests or to puff up his record." Now I have to add, "...except for Sandusky."

 

[BigCat]

What makes Penn State different from Alabama and most other D1 football pwerhouses is that the others haven't been singled out by the NCAA, ESPN, and all other media outlets for headlines because of their "football culture". Even at Ohio State, when President Gordon Gee joked that he hoped Jim Tressel didn't fire him, the backlash wasn't nearly as great. It is the national perception that Penn State was worse in that aspect than the others.
.

Respectfully snipped

No one at Alabama, Florida, or Ohio State attempted to cover-up the sexual assault of a child. The Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers of the world just want to win football games. Paterno wanted to win football games and be a saint. Protecting his holier-than-thou image was more important than protecting a child.

So, IMO, Paterno's control was more complete and nefarious than any other coach. I would characterize it as almost cult-like.

I agree with JaimeSommers that Bill O'Brien is making some positive and necessary changes at PSU. The future is bright IF the fanbase can let the past go.
would

 

[JaimeSommers]

RSBM ...

No one at Alabama, Florida, or Ohio State attempted to cover-up the sexual assault of a child.

That we know of.

The Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers of the world just want to win football games.

Wow, do I ever respectfully disagree with this.

Paterno wanted to win football games and be a saint. Protecting his holier-than-thou image was more important than protecting a child.

Joe failed, but at least he admitted he should have done more. That's more than anyone else has copped to in the last 16 months.

As a survivor of child sexual abuse, I have enough rage to go around, believe me. Again, Paterno failed, but he has been made a scapegoat in many ways -- vendettas were squared at the expense of these children. Spanier should be in prison (for starters).

So, IMO, Paterno's control was more complete and nefarious than any other coach. I would characterize it as almost cult-like.

And Saban is different how? They've got a statue of the man at the stadium -- sounds familiar. His daughter got off easy for assaulting another girl last year. He has power and control and a cult-like following by fans.

Do I agree with it? No. But let's be fair. We don't know what's going on in other football powerhouse programs. What about the rape coverup at Notre Dame? None of it is right.

I agree with JaimeSommers that Bill O'Brien is making some positive and necessary changes at PSU. The future is bright IF the fanbase can let the past go.
would

Agreed! I wanted Joe to retire years ago.

 

[Rlaub44]

Respectfully snipped

No one at Alabama, Florida, or Ohio State attempted to cover-up the sexual assault of a child. The Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers of the world just want to win football games. Paterno wanted to win football games and be a saint. Protecting his holier-than-thou image was more important than protecting a child.

So, IMO, Paterno's control was more complete and nefarious than any other coach. I would characterize it as almost cult-like.

I agree with JaimeSommers that Bill O'Brien is making some positive and necessary changes at PSU. The future is bright IF the fanbase can let the past go.
would

BBM
Respectfully, that only holds true if you believe that Paterno directed the cover-up, which I personally do not.

Paterno apparently wanted to win football games and mold young men into successful citizens, husbands and fathers. The letter that recently surfaced where he chided a former player for skipping out on paying a $12.99 hotel service bill is the coach that his players remember fondly as always holding them accountable for their actions, which is why the idea of him turning his back on child abuse is so contrary to the person his players and family believe he was.
http://deadspin.com/5988769/read-jo...o-a-player-who-cheated-penn-state-out-of-1299

I could argue that the "football culture" was far worse at schools where the coaching staff broke many NCAA rules to gain a competitive advantage, but I know everyone has made their minds up on Paterno, so it would make no difference.