Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #38

[Amee]

I thought Amee meant her BIL would sue you and her sister would fix her stings.

yep :floorlaugh:
My inlaws are pro fishermen and think more logically than my family! I dont think it matters what the profession is.

Dr Watson did you read the timeline link?

6.41am: A second text message was reportedly sent saying "Al, getting concerned. Where are you? The app doesn't say either? [Two children] now up. I'm dressed and about to make lunches. Please just text me back or call! Love G".

7.09am: Police allege Mr Baden-Clay searched the term 'self incrimination' on the internet.

7.14am: It is alleged Mr Baden-Clay accessed the Queensland Police Service home page.

7.15am: Mr Baden-Clay called triple-0.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz25T6YKA21

 

[DrWatson]

I thought Amee meant her BIL would sue you and her sister would fix her stings.

LOL :floorlaugh:

Amee - yes, I've read that timeline. And yes, as I said, I agree with you that it sure looks damaging to GBC's case.

I just hope that the prosecution can somehow link GBC to the iPhone at the time those searches were made.

Does anyone know where NBC was around the time of those calls etc?

 

[Woodstock]

Thanks for the link. Loved the transcript. There are some similarities to this case don't you think? Dr Milne's work is amazing and I hope she pulls some awesome rabbits out of her hat for Allison like she did in the case for Samantha Bodsworth. RIP Sam and Allison.

Hi chekoutchik, there are lots of disturbing similarities between this case and Samantha Bodsworth's. It's also interesting to read Dr Milne's remark in the transcript about her work compared with fingerprinting and DNA analysis.

The Lloyd Rayney case currently being heard in WA's courts is very similar to this one in terms of being based around a "voluminous" amount of circumstantial evidence. There is no smoking gun, but also no viable alternative theory for the murder other than the husband having (allegedly) done it. It's interesting, though, to read the daily and weekly transcripts of this case because the defence seems to be having a high degree of success in poking small holes of doubt in every little piece of evidence (just a simple "but what if ...?" thrown at every single piece) such that the prosecution actually appears to be losing at this point ... death by a thousand paper cuts. It's actually looking like Lloyd may (allegedly) get away with murder thanks to a very thorough assault by his legal team. GBC's team will no doubt be appreciating the extra time to get their ducks in a row and find 446+ ways to poke small holes of doubt in evidence. On that score, Rayney is a lawyer and his legal team are the best of the best - he can afford them and also choose very wisely. The same cannot necessariyl be said of GBC.

Botanical evidence (seed pods from a liquidambar tree) also played a big part in Lloyd Rayney's trial - though I think that the expert who advised police in this case was not Dr Milne but someone who works at WA Herbarium. If anyone is looking for examples of the way defence lawyers try to pick holes in the prosecution case, have a look at reports of the trial and the way Rayney's defence lawyers questioned police handling of the botanical evidence.

 

[bearbear]

maybe the prosecutions plan of attack is putting one of the girls on the stand?
i really hope not and hope they didnt hear or see anything, but there is that possibility.

 

[Woodstock]

maybe the prosecutions plan of attack is putting one of the girls on the stand?
i really hope not and hope they didnt hear or see anything, but there is that possibility.

Oh no!!!!

Maybe someone with a legal background can help here. If the prosecution planned to have one of the girls as a witness, would her statement have had to be included in the documents that have now been given to GBC’s defence lawyers? If so, I'm assuming that would that mean that his lawyers would have informed GBC about this.

I’m trying to avoid overreacting here, but the thought that GBC would knowingly allow his daughter to be placed in this invidious position is just horrifying.

 

[they'll get you]

I wonder how hard the defence will go on Allison? Will they make her out as the big bad, spending violent ogre? With the help of Ow, TM & Pashpop Incorporated telling all who'll listen how depressed and horrible she was to their poor little hurt & struggling boy. That's the defence's job, isn't it? Allison is not around to defend herself. That's the saddest part. Allison is not around to defend herself. If she did keep alot to herself and was too proud to speak about her problems, as it appears, prove otherwise? I feel Allison's back was against the wall. Where was all the money going, was he looking after her and the children or was "The Firm" squirrelling it away elsewhere for a wonderful life without Allison in the picture. Hopefulyl their accountants made some traceable errors. OMG this doesn't surprise me! Of course this is all my own thoughts and ramblings.

 

[they'll get you]

In the Azaria Chamberlain case it all hinged on a matinee jacket? British forensic expert, Professor James Cameron, who had examined stains on the baby's jumpsuit and concluded the baby had had its throat cut. Forensic biologist Joy Kuhl identified blood in the Chamberlain's car and some of their possessions, including a camera bag, and on further analysis found it contained foetal haemoglobin. It wasn't! It was rust proofing overspray! I'm praying our boyz in blue have it rock solid this time!

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-case-that-split-the-nation-20120224-1tufz.html#ixzz25TZlu5go

Things can go wrong & I feel the defence is going to play hard and dirty. Hold on to your hats ladies & gents.

 

[marlywings]

Excellent points, Radster. And the same points that I was trying to raise by poking the hornet's nest.. As you say, poking those 446+ small holes of doubt will presumably be the strategy.

The only thing on which I would disagree with you is that you say that Raney may get away with murder. But if that doubt exists, on all points, how do we KNOW that he may get away with murder? May he, in fact, actually be innocent? I don't know, and I haven't been following that case. But if he is FOUND not guilty, then shouldn't we assume that he is in fact - not guilty?

I'm not talking about an O J Simpson situation here - but the Leanne Holland case haunts me somewhat, as I can remember when it all hit the fan back in 1991. Everyone, including the police, had Graham Stafford guilty from the outset. It was all circumstantial. And of course the forensics weren't as sophisticated back then - but maybe they're not as sophisticated now as they may be in another 20 years time either? But now his conviction has been quashed, and I read yesterday that they are about to charge someone - presumably somebody else.

Poking those little holes of doubt into every point raised is a good defence strategy, and you can bet that GBC's legal team will be following the Raney case closely and taking pointers on how to do it.

What the police - and the rest of us - REALLY need is that one smoking gun piece of evidence, the FACT that cannot be disputed, that irrevocably ties the culprit (GBC or otherwise) to the crime. Maybe the prosecution has that - we don't know. But if they don't, then poking all those little doubt holes may become very frustrating for all those following the case.

I think if you're going to focus on just that one Leanne Holland case then it's only fair that we focus on the 1,000's of other cases in which the accused was found guilty & the convictions haven't been quashed.

Also...with the mention of the Rayney case, I notice it took three years before an arrest was made. In the Sica case, it took five years for an arrest & as we now know, after nine years, Sica was found guilty.

GBC was arrested after only two months....something about that tells me there is overwhelming evidence to support Inspector Ainsworth's arrest of the accused.

ps. Adding in a quote from Justice Boddice from the bail hearing...


Justice Boddice disagreed with the defence submission that the Crown case was “weak”. While circumstantial, it could “be taken by a jury as strong evidence”.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...denied-bail-20120622-20s73.html#ixzz25Teoku95

 

[The Observer]

On the one hand, I'm pretty sure he is the most likely culprit (and stats are on that side of things too), but then I keep finding myself thinking that surely he can't have been THAT stupid?

Yup. I hear ya! I too, thought there surely was another culprit, that GBC knew about surely... But as evidence came out I was left eyerolling that indeed someone can be THAT stupid. It just left me with the assumption the "events" of that night came about out of nowhere most likely stemming from the conference discussion, and sadly all hell broke loose.

From memory, Danny Boyle also stated in court today that new [fresh] information was keeping inspectors from finishing their statements.

Thanks for that tidbit. I wonder if "new information" could mean they now know exactly where she was left that night!?

Sunday June 24, 2012

And he and the couple's three children were alone in the house with Allison on the night of her death, a fact which was particularly relevant, Mr Boyle said.

http://www.skynewsbusiness.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=763825&vId=3338762&cId=Top Stories

I wonder if they are hoping to nail an accomplice here or will they settle (pardon the pun) for GBC? I think ts fair to say they know who the accomplice was whether they can prove it though is a different matter.

The facts stated by Mr Boyle speak for themselves. Allison left her message on GBC's armpit, chest and face. This tells the story. One could equally say that it was up to the Defence to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that it was otherwise. My opinion only, not fact.

This is where the trip to the doctor and chemist come into it. Did he indeed have scratches/whatever documented? Can they verify he got said injuries actually on the thursday night? I think all of us are eagerly waiting to hear the complete list of evidence against him.

I wonder how hard the defence will go on Allison? Will they make her out as the big bad, spending violent ogre? With the help of Ow, TM & Pashpop Incorporated telling all who'll listen how depressed and horrible she was to their poor little hurt & struggling boy.

Yeah strategy is everything isn't it. IMO I think they will go harder on TM than anyone else. As a witness for the prosecution we're to assume she has a water tight alibi but still, defense will have a field day with her.

 

[they'll get you]

Oh no!!!!

Maybe someone with a legal background can help here. If the prosecution planned to have one of the girls as a witness, would her statement have had to be included in the documents that have now been given to GBC’s defence lawyers? If so, I'm assuming that would that mean that his lawyers would have informed GBC about this.

I’m trying to avoid overreacting here, but the thought that GBC would knowingly allow his daughter to be placed in this invidious position is just horrifying.

Woody I don't think you are overreacting. With this mob anything will be possible. I fear it's going to be a dirty fight. I'm hoping Allison's friends and family had some texts confirming their fears and concerns. But then they will have to prove everything. A text can be read several different ways and the defence is going to go hard. :banghead::jail:

In the meantime just imagine poor GBC still picking out stingers imbedded deep in his private parts from those caterpillars.....mmm that's gives me a smile:floorlaugh:

 

[marlywings]

This is where the trip to the doctor and chemist come into it. Did he indeed have scratches/whatever documented? Can they verify he got said injuries actually on the thursday night? I think all of us are eagerly waiting to hear the complete list of evidence against him..

The scratches were definitely documented by police...


April 21, 2012

Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.

Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz25ThzADTa

 

[The Observer]

Yup, Marlywings I know police did I'm wondering if this doctor visit that we were told about on the thursday morning was documented. You know the one he saw before going to the chemist. Did the doctor actually note down any marks on GBC

 

[bearbear]

I wonder how hard the defence will go on Allison? Will they make her out as the big bad, spending violent ogre? With the help of Ow, TM & Pashpop Incorporated telling all who'll listen how depressed and horrible she was to their poor little hurt & struggling boy. That's the defence's job, isn't it? Allison is not around to defend herself. That's the saddest part. Allison is not around to defend herself. If she did keep alot to herself and was too proud to speak about her problems, as it appears, prove otherwise? I feel Allison's back was against the wall. Where was all the money going, was he looking after her and the children or was "The Firm" squirrelling it away elsewhere for a wonderful life without Allison in the picture. Hopefulyl their accountants made some traceable errors. OMG this doesn't surprise me! Of course this is all my own thoughts and ramblings.

i think they will try to paint an unflattering pictire of allison, i think its going to be very upsetting for anyone who knew and loved her. hopefully the marriage counsellor is able to give evidence and its in allisons favour.

 

[marlywings]

In addition to my previous post & from the same link...

Police had noticed scratches on Mr Baden-Clay's right side cheek, which were photographed by scenes of crimes officers.

Mr Baden-Clay told the officer the scratches were caused by an old shaver.

In the documents, police said they appeared to be scratches "similar to scratches made by fingernails as they are not straight or clean cuts normally made by a sharp razor blade".

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz25TkhGWcD

 

[they'll get you]

Yup, Marlywings I know police did I'm wondering if this doctor visit that we were told about on the thursday morning was documented. You know the one he saw before going to the chemist. Did the doctor actually note down any marks on GBC

If it was documented and photos taken from 15 different angles what was GBC's story? Again they'll have to prove otherwise. He was attacked by a huge Triffid covered in caterpillars. Didn't he try saying he'd cut his hand changing a light bulb and that the employee who was with him said it didn't happen. Oh the wild stories are going to shock us all.

Also I'm sure the defence will PUSH that Allison had many many enemies who could have done this.

 

[marlywings]

Yup, Marlywings I know police did I'm wondering if this doctor visit that we were told about on the thursday morning was documented. You know the one he saw before going to the chemist. Did the doctor actually note down any marks on GBC

I'm not sure there's been any mention in MSM about GBC visiting a doctor on Thursday 19th April. IF it's a rumour about him visiting a doctor then we have to stay away from it. If I find a report which mentions it I'll post it.

 

[Fuskier]

i think they will try to paint an unflattering pictire of allison, i think its going to be very upsetting for anyone who knew and loved her. hopefully the marriage counsellor is able to give evidence and its in allisons favour.

Hopefully the Prosecution could equally paint a picture of allegedly collusive and damaging family/work relationships which worked against Allison, disrespected her so badly over a significant period of time, dismissed her as insignificant, colluded to keep secrets from her, tarnished her reputation in a way she could not defend, who did not bother search for her when she was missing, but were happy to allege in the media that she suffered from depression, who did not call for her murderer to be caught, then wanted to carry on as 'normal' after her death as if her life was insignificant. Just a thought. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[bearbear]

Hopefully the Prosecution could equally paint a picture of allegedly collusive and damaging family/work relationships which worked against Allison, disrespected her so badly over a significant period of time, dismissed her as insignificant, colluded to keep secrets from her, tarnished her reputation in a way she could not defend, who did not bother search for her when she was missing, but were happy to allege in the media that she suffered from depression, who did not call for her murderer to be caught, then wanted to carry on as 'normal' after her death as if her life was insignificant. Just a thought. My opinion only, not fact.

yes, so true! also any domestic abuse suffered, if the rumours are true, hopefully any injuries can be verified by the hospital or doctor who would have attended to allison at the time.

 

[enthralled]

i think they will try to paint an unflattering pictire of allison, i think its going to be very upsetting for anyone who knew and loved her. hopefully the marriage counsellor is able to give evidence and its in allisons favour.

No doubt they will bearbear and I feel for those who knew and loved her having to hear it. But even if it's proven she was a shocker (which I doubt she was) she obviously didn't keep him on a short, controlling lead and no one has the right to take her life.

 

[STELLA85]

Just now ~
nine news flash during hot seat ~ fresh twist in baden clay case!

More on 6pm News

wonder what it is?