Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[Mountain Misst]

I've not seen this before. Is written by a Brookfield local and law student:

"Curiously, on the day Allison’s body was found, Gerard Baden-Clay obtained a senior barrister (Peter Davis SC) whose specialty is dealing with murder cases and dismissing evidence.
Peter Davis worked on the first significant DNA-based case in QLD. That case was the murder-rape case of R v Fletcher. Peter Davis, acting on behalf of the defendant, skillfully argued that even if the jury believed beyond reasonable doubt that the DNA evidence at the crime scene matched his client’s, it did not prove that the accused was the offender. In addition to that, he also argued that if there was only DNA evidence against the accused, a judge cannot convict them. The most famous case, however, that Mr Davis was involved in, would be the tragic one of Deirdre Kennedy – the murder and rape case of a toddler found on the roof of a toilet block in Ipswich.
You might ask yourself why on earth a man would hire a lawyer this talented (and expensive) just for “dealings with police and media”! Perhaps, he is expecting to be represented in court by this barrister in the near future…"

http://gibberjabble.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/the-mystery-of-allison-baden-clay/

 

[Mountain Misst]

Photo of the aftermath of the car 'accident' at Indooroopilly. (Thanks JJE) GBC is presumably under the blanket next to the security guard. I doubt that it's mummy inside the passenger door as hair isn't grey.

http://gibberjabble.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/24/

 

[Maigret]

I have been reading about Deidre Kennedy her poor mother - and recently Deidre's ashes were stolen from her mother's home

 

[DrWatson]

I've not seen this before. Is written by a Brookfield local and law student:

"Curiously, on the day Allison’s body was found, Gerard Baden-Clay obtained a senior barrister (Peter Davis SC) whose specialty is dealing with murder cases and dismissing evidence.

Actually, I'm not sure that is correct, but then I could be wrong too. I thought he hired Darren Mahoney, a solicitor from the Gold Coast? And didn't Darren Mahoney subsequently bring in Peter Davis after GBC had been arrested?

Perhaps Alioop can clarify? I'm not even sure that a member of the public CAN go and simply hire a barrister. Bit like the medical profession, where you go to the GP who then refers you to the specialist. I can't get patients "off the street" so to speak - all my patients have to be referred, either by GPs or other specialists. And I think that the legal profession works in much the same way - at least here in Australia.

So I think that making the inferences that the writer of that blog is obviously making may not be accurate, and in fact may be prejudicial....

Alioop - can you comment or help? lease:

EDIT: I just noticed that the blog says he hired Davis on the day Allison was found - i.e. 10 days after she went missing. I think he hired Mahoney the day after she went missing. So maybe it was Mahoney who brought in Davis? But I'm not sure just WHEN that happened in relation to when he was arrested....

 

[Thinking]

Actually, I'm not sure that is correct, but then I could be wrong too. I thought he hired Darren Mahoney, a solicitor from the Gold Coast? And didn't Darren Mahoney subsequently bring in Peter Davis after GBC had been arrested?

Perhaps Alioop can clarify? I'm not even sure that a member of the public CAN go and simply hire a barrister. Bit like the medical profession, where you go to the GP who then refers you to the specialist. I can't get patients "off the street" so to speak - all my patients have to be referred, either by GPs or other specialists. And I think that the legal profession works in much the same way - at least here in Australia.

So I think that making the inferences that the writer of that blog is obviously making may not be accurate, and in fact may be prejudicial....

Alioop - can you comment or help? lease:

EDIT: I just noticed that the blog says he hired Davis on the day Allison was found - i.e. 10 days after she went missing. I think he hired Mahoney the day after she went missing. So maybe it was Mahoney who brought in Davis? But I'm not sure just WHEN that happened in relation to when he was arrested....

Hi doc,

He hired Mahoney quite early in the piece when they were still searching for Allison. He did indeed engage the barrister the day that the body was found - you might recall the infamous "pie face" shot of him in George Street that day. Sorry I can't link on iPad.

 

[Fuskier]

Actually, I'm not sure that is correct, but then I could be wrong too. I thought he hired Darren Mahoney, a solicitor from the Gold Coast? And didn't Darren Mahoney subsequently bring in Peter Davis after GBC had been arrested? ... <respectfully snipped> ...

EDIT: I just noticed that the blog says he hired Davis on the day Allison was found - i.e. 10 days after she went missing. I think he hired Mahoney the day after she went missing. So maybe it was Mahoney who brought in Davis? But I'm not sure just WHEN that happened in relation to when he was arrested....

DrWatson thanks for pointing this inaccuracy out. My memory indicates that GBC hired Darren Mahoney to help deal with the Police and media on the morning Allison was reported missing. People were astounded that he had managed to secure a legal representative early that same morning and wondered why an innocent man would need to take this unusal step. Allegedly, DM was a school friend associate of some sort and flew down to Brisbane that morning. On the day Allison's body was found DM called in Peter Davis. My opinion only.

Just wondering wouldn't there be some record of a call being made to Darren Mahoney on GBC's phone? If not, then who contacted him? OW? NBC? EBC?

 

[DrWatson]

Just wondering wouldn't there be some record of a call being made to Darren Mahoney on GBC's phone? If not, then who contacted him? OW? NBC? EBC?

Good point, Fuskier. But I'm not sure if that means a lot, given that there is no argument that he or somebody DID contact Mahoney. That isn't in question, I don't think.

As to just WHO it was that contacted him, again I'm not sure that it actually makes any difference.

And of course, that call could have been made from any phone, including a landline, and from anywhere including his parents' place.

I'm still much more intrigued by Allison's phone - and how the two disparate pieces of information make any sense:

- that her phone location had been narrowed down to a 150 metre radius around the BC house, and that Police and SES were searching that area a blade of grass at a time!

- and from the latest bail hearing, that her phone had connected to the Fig Tree Pocket tower and remained on it for 13 hours until the battery died. As locals will know, the FTP tower is nowhere near the BC house, with Brookfield and Kenmore towers being much closer.

One or both of those pieces of information has to be wrong.

 

[DrWatson]

For those who may have missed it, from yesterday's (22/12/2012) Courier Mail "Talk of the Town" (TTT) page (p37), there was a very interesting take on the recent bail application. I can't find this column anywhere on the web or the Courier Mail site, so I'll attempt to type it in. I hope the Mods will accept this full reference in lieu of a URL. Please excuse any typos:

==== START QUOTE ====

BAIL STRATEGY RECEIVES NEGATIVE REACTION

It was always a big gamble. There has been considerable debate in Brisbane legal circles this week - much of it negative - over Gerard Baden-Clay's decision to seek Supreme Court bail (his second attempt) at 2:15pm on the last official day of sittings of the 2012 Queensland court year.
Some senior lawyers thought Baden-Clay's legal team might have thought there was some tactical advantage in having the hearing - which was always going to take several hours - so late on the last day. Other very senior legal minds (we dare not mention their names, but reputations are impeccable) told TTT it seemed like a very foolish exercise to try to force a very experienced judge, Justice Peter Applegarth, to make a quick decision.
Justic Applegarth (pictured) denied the application but one other member of the judiciary told TTT that if put in the same position they would have left Baden-Clay twisting in the wind before making a decision upon resumption of the 2013 court year.

==== END QUOTE ====

 

[Maigret]

Justic Applegarth (pictured) denied the application but one other member of the judiciary told TTT that if put in the same position they would have left Baden-Clay twisting in the wind before making a decision upon resumption of the 2013 court year.

He he he

 

[alioop]

Darren Mahoney's law practice is at the Gold Coast. I was surprised that Peter Davis was hired that early. GBC's first appointment may have been on the day Allison was found but it may have been prearranged for that date or a come and see me when a body is found perhaps! Darren would have been more than capable of providing legal advice to GBC at that stage. It is very unusual to hire a criminal barrister that early, GBC had not been charged and wasn't for weeks later. My guess is that the desire to hire a barrister at that point was not based on Darren's recommendation.

It is my understanding that barristers can be hired directly by the public, this came in years ago but usually it is still done through a solicitor for practical purposes.

Doc I thought that people can consult a specialist doctor without a referral but medicare won't pay if there isn't that referral. So it usually happens with a referral. Correct me if I am wrong but a specialist doctor told me that when my referral ran out a few years ago.

 

[DrWatson]

Justic Applegarth (pictured) denied the application but one other member of the judiciary told TTT that if put in the same position they would have left Baden-Clay twisting in the wind before making a decision upon resumption of the 2013 court year.

He he he

Yup - I did my best to avoid adding a "Heheheh" to my post

But it does illustrate the power of one person over another, doesn't it? In this case, the judge over the accused. I think it's a bit unfortunate that the unnamed judge used the phrase "twisting in the wind" - it sounds a bit vindictive and prejudged....

I think Justice Applegarth did a mighty fine job!

 

[alioop]

For those who may have missed it, from yesterday's (22/12/2012) Courier Mail "Talk of the Town" (TTT) page (p37), there was a very interesting take on the recent bail application. I can't find this column anywhere on the web or the Courier Mail site, so I'll attempt to type it in. I hope the Mods will accept this full reference in lieu of a URL. Please excuse any typos:

==== START QUOTE ====

BAIL STRATEGY RECEIVES NEGATIVE REACTION

It was always a big gamble. There has been considerable debate in Brisbane legal circles this week - much of it negative - over Gerard Baden-Clay's decision to seek Supreme Court bail (his second attempt) at 2:15pm on the last official day of sittings of the 2012 Queensland court year.
Some senior lawyers thought Baden-Clay's legal team might have thought there was some tactical advantage in having the hearing - which was always going to take several hours - so late on the last day. Other very senior legal minds (we dare not mention their names, but reputations are impeccable) told TTT it seemed like a very foolish exercise to try to force a very experienced judge, Justice Peter Applegarth, to make a quick decision.
Justic Applegarth (pictured) denied the application but one other member of the judiciary told TTT that if put in the same position they would have left Baden-Clay twisting in the wind before making a decision upon resumption of the 2013 court year.

==== END QUOTE ====

I read that too in yesterday's paper and a lightbulb went off for me as to why the judge delivered such a late decision that evening. I thought it was a bit odd. I didn't realise at the time that it was the last day of court sittings for the year. Silly me!

 

[DrWatson]

Doc I thought that people can consult a specialist doctor without a referral but medicare won't pay if there isn't that referral. So it usually happens with a referral. Correct me if I am wrong but a specialist doctor told me that when my referral ran out a few years ago.

Alioop - you're right that Medicare won't pay unless there is a referral. And yes, technically a patient COULD get an opinion from a specialist directly. But they don't. In all my years as a specialist I've never had a non-referred (or "self-referred") patient. They all come from other doctors.

The other rules of Medicare are that specialist-to-specialist referrals are only good for 3 months. A GP can refer to a specialist for any time period up to, and including, "an indefinite period". Which is generally considered a good thing, as it keeps the GP "in the loop".

 

[alioop]

I think Justice Applegarth did a mighty fine job!

I agree. He came into the hearing very prepared. He had read the material that had been filed and all written submissions by each party. That is how he was able to query the defence's specific claims about the suicide theory as they made them. He made it easy for the prosecution as there wasn't a lot left for them to say to counter the defence's submissions when it was Danny's turn to make submissions. He just had to do a summary. You can see what I mean when you read my notes of the hearing and the judge's comments to the defence.

 

[alioop]

Alioop - you're right that Medicare won't pay unless there is a referral. And yes, technically a patient COULD get an opinion from a specialist directly. But they don't. In all my years as a specialist I've never had a non-referred (or "self-referred") patient. They all come from other doctors.

The other rules of Medicare are that specialist-to-specialist referrals are only good for 3 months. A GP can refer to a specialist for any time period up to, and including, "an indefinite period". Which is generally considered a good thing, as it keeps the GP "in the loop".

Thanks Doc, that is what I thought. If a patient is referred to a medical specialist, then usually that specialist takes over the treatment of whatever the medical problem is from the GP but in the case of a solicitor and barrister, they both run different aspects of the legal case at the same time in conjunction with each other. So the medical specialist doesn't need the GP but the barrister does need the solicitor. Just an interesting comparison of our professions.

 

[Maigret]

I read on Aussie criminals or Facebook that MSM had said that NBC and OW were at the house as early as 6 am on the morning of 20th April if they have proof of that that really puts a lot of what was said into the porky pie basket

 

[ollijack]

I take your points, but

1. can't prove that a post-mortem drug level LEAD to death - see the papers I referred to in posts last night. Also your link. Also, Zoloft - on its own - is VERY unlikely to cause death.

2. Agree that Zoloft usually given for depression, but not all depression is a risk factor for suicde. There are different types of depression (endogenous, reactive, etc). And Zoloft is also used for anxiety and OCD. The prescription of Zoloft, on its own, can't be taken as indicating a risk of suicide.

3. Zoloft overdose was the proposed method of suicide in the defence's case at the bail hearing, based on the levels found that were alleged to be toxic. No other cause of death was proposed as the suicide. And no indication of potential suicide is found in her diaries, or in the statements given by GBC. So based on that, for the suicide theory to have credence, they WOULD have to show that the levels found COULD have caused her death. And the stuff we found last night says basically that they CAN'T show that.

Hope you don't mind me debating your points

Thankyou Doc for point 2. I have been on Zoloft for several years, a wonderful medication (for me) and many other people.
I get very concerned when depression and suicide are mentioned together.
Your explanation makes it clear.

 

[Aberline_1979]

Photo of the aftermath of the car 'accident' at Indooroopilly. (Thanks JJE) GBC is presumably under the blanket next to the security guard. I doubt that it's mummy inside the passenger door as hair isn't grey.

http://gibberjabble.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/24/

:floorlaugh:

He sure did give it a decent prang, didn't he? I bet his "friend" (who loaned him the car) was impressed...

I know I've said this more than once before, but what I wouldn't give to be able to see any CCTV footage of this "accident"!

As for the blanket, I wonder if he had that with him in the car, LoL? Wouldn't want to have to put up with one of those "coarse" ones the police use :tantrum:

 

[Fuskier]

... My memory indicates that GBC hired Darren Mahoney to help deal with the Police and media on the morning Allison was reported missing. People were astounded that he had managed to secure a legal representative early that same morning and wondered why an innocent man would need to take this unusal step... Just wondering wouldn't there be some record of a call being made to Darren Mahoney on GBC's phone? If not, then who contacted him? OW? NBC? EBC?

Respectfully Doc, the time the call was made to Darren Mahoney may yeild some interesting information. It seems that somebody in the family determined that a solicitor would be needed early that morning. It is alleged that the solicitor arrived as early as 7.00am on a flight from the Gold Coast. So the phone call, time of call and who made it could yeild some important information as to informal, self-assessments made as to guilt/innocence by the family/alleged murderer early that morning. My opinion only.

 

[Fuskier]

Darren Mahoney's law practice is at the Gold Coast. I was surprised that Peter Davis was hired that early... It is very unusual to hire a criminal barrister that early, GBC had not been charged and wasn't for weeks later...

... and hypothetically this is a point that many are likely to agree with. My opinion only.