Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[Maigret]

Good because then it makes it even more difficult for the defence to later claim accidental death as a result of a fight which is far more likely than suicide. The more the stories change, the less credible any of them are.

Yes - muddying the water though and it's worrying me - I am hoping the defence have some real hard evidence
Juries can be swayed and if there is not good hard evidence then 'reasonable doubt' comes in

 

[alioop]

I think the prosecution has a very strong case with evidence to support it. We will know more about it in 2 months.

Edit, evidence presented by the prosecution for the purposes of both bail hearings is just enough to get bail refused which is going to be the likely outcome anyway for murder charges so they have a lot more than we know. The defence knows all that evidence, yet all they could come up with for the bail hearing is a "suicide theory" that the judge poked holes in at every step.

 

[alioop]

I wonder if the person who Mr Cowley claims he saw at 5.30 am that morning has come forward. It is been in MSM so they or someone they know surely would know it is important they come forward and assist police.

 

[alioop]

Interesting article in MSM today about parents installing tracking devices on their adult daughter's computer and mobile phone and being found to have been stalking her.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...-against-parents/story-fnet085v-1226544468690

 

[whitechapel]

I think the prosecution has a very strong case with evidence to support it. We will know more about it in 2 months.

Edit, evidence presented by the prosecution for the purposes of both bail hearings is just enough to get bail refused which is going to be the likely outcome anyway for murder charges so they have a lot more than we know. The defence knows all that evidence, yet all they could come up with for the bail hearing is a "suicide theory" that the judge poked holes in at every step.

Thanks Alioop.
I admire your practical, clear thinking approach to the limited evidence we are privy to.
Roll on the bail hearing.

 

[Maigret]

I wonder if the person who Mr Cowley claims he saw at 5.30 am that morning has come forward. It is been in MSM so they or someone they know surely would know it is important they come forward and assist police.

Unless it was someone trying to confuse things so wouldn't be about to come forward - so yes why haven't they come forward

 

[Humdinger]

Remember when Allison was still just missing and her friend said something along the lines of 'she told us things, we should have done more' the dickies said similar also.

I'd love to know what these things are, imagine their statements and what they contain!!!

 

[Liadan]

Remember when Allison was still just missing and her friend said something along the lines of 'she told us things, we should have done more' the dickies said similar also.

I'd love to know what these things are, imagine their statements and what they contain!!!

You know humdinger I agree but I so hope they are not torturing themselves about that. I am pretty sure that - they (Allisons friends) would have loved to have done more. But can you imagine Allison's friends doing nothing to help her. I simply can't. I decode this as being - we did all we could and if we did know the real situation then we could have helped more. But it was important to Allison that she was dealing with these things and her friends were not aware of all her issues. I don't think any of her friends would have hesitated to have helped if they had known but for Allison that was as good as admitting failure.

And I can only counter with GBC knew her weaknesses to have been able to reduce her to the situation that resulted in her death. I think we have all been touched with her friends empathy and amazed by willingness to help expressed from the general community - it is heart warming.

Her friends/family should hold their heads high - unfortunately Allison was taken by force and no one had the weapons to defend her against him.

 

[Fuskier]

You know humdinger I agree but I so hope they are not torturing themselves about that. I am pretty sure that - they (Allisons friends) would have loved to have done more. But can you imagine Allison's friends doing nothing to help her. I simply can't. I decode this as being - we did all we could and if we did knew the real situation then we could have helped more. But it was important to Allison that she was dealing with these things and her friends were not aware of all her issues. I don't think any of her friends would have hesitated to have helped if they had known but for Allison that was as good as admitting failure.

And I can only counter with GBC knew her weaknesses to have been able to reduce her to the situation that resulted in her death. I think we have all been touched with her friends empathy and amazed by willingness to help expressed from the general community - it is heart warming.

Her friends/family should hold their heads high - unfortunately Allison was taken by force and no one had the weapons to defend her against him.

I agree. What a thoughtful acknowledgement of Allison's self, Allison's friends, family, local community and community of shared concern.

 

[knowledgethirsty]

I keep having a recurring thought that Allison was pushed down the stairs.

 

[Groundedgirl]

I keep having a recurring thought that Allison was pushed down the stairs.

I was thinking on a similar line. Had to be something non confrontational and dare I say it, cowardly.

 

[marlywings]

I keep having a recurring thought that Allison was pushed down the stairs.

I've wondered about that since the early days...now I tend to think she was kicked in the chest & she fell back down the stairs. Recently I was looking at some of the more common types of causes for "bruising to interior chest wall"....a kick seems to be rather common. Hitting her head at the bottom of stairs perhaps caused the subdural haemorrhage.

 

[DrWatson]

I've wondered about that since the early days...now I tend to think she was kicked in the chest & she fell back down the stairs. Recently I was looking at some of the more common types of causes for "bruising to interior chest wall"....a kick seems to be rather common. Hitting her head at the bottom of stairs perhaps caused the subdural haemorrhage.

I don't know for certain, but I have a suspicion that the "bruising to interior chest wall" may have been a journalistic error or mis-hearing. If the inside of the chest wall is bruised, by external trauma such as a kick or a punch, then I'd expect there to be at least the same amount of bruising externally too.

I suspect that it may have been anterior chest wall - that is, the front of the chest.

Unless of course the external bruising was so badly decomposed after 11 days that the only evidence of the bruising was on the inside... another possibility.

But a kick to the chest is something that I wouldn't really expect - it's not that easy unless you're into martial arts etc - and even then getting the balance right isn't easy. A punch would be much more likely. Or a knee.

And also I find it interesting that no mention was made of any rib fractures - yet for there to be bruising on the interior chest wall, I would almost expect rib fractures to be present as well. It's possible, but highly unlikely, to cause bruising on the inside without at least a cracked rib or two which actually causes the bruising - i.e. the bleeding and swelling. Also known as a contusion.

I really would like to see that autopsy report when it becomes available...

 

[marlywings]

I don't know for certain, but I have a suspicion that the "bruising to interior chest wall" may have been a journalistic error or mis-hearing. If the inside of the chest wall is bruised, by external trauma such as a kick or a punch, then I'd expect there to be at least the same amount of bruising externally too.

I suspect that it may have been anterior chest wall - that is, the front of the chest.

Unless of course the external bruising was so badly decomposed after 11 days that the only evidence of the bruising was on the inside... another possibility.

But a kick to the chest is something that I wouldn't really expect - it's not that easy unless you're into martial arts etc - and even then getting the balance right isn't easy. A punch would be much more likely. Or a knee.

And also I find it interesting that no mention was made of any rib fractures - yet for there to be bruising on the interior chest wall, I would almost expect rib fractures to be present as well. It's possible, but highly unlikely, to cause bruising on the inside without at least a cracked rib or two which actually causes the bruising - i.e. the bleeding and swelling. Also known as a contusion.

I really would like to see that autopsy report when it becomes available...

From Courier Mail report...


bruising on her interior chest wall

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...re-supreme-court/story-e6freoof-1226536987434

From allioop's report...

""He said she had a subdural heamatoma and bruising on interior left wall of her chest resulting from a mild degree of force.""

Perhaps Allison was standing a couple of steps down from the top step with GBC at the top....one kick at her chest from him could have been quite easily enough for her to fall backwards down the stairs.

 

[Makara]

It was stated in the bail hearing evidence that Allison was taken from the house via the back door. If she was pushed down the front stairs I don't think GBC would carry her back up the stairs and then remove her via the back door.

MOO.

 

[marlywings]

It was stated in the bail hearing evidence that Allison was taken from the house via the back door. If she was pushed down the front stairs I don't think GBC would carry her back up the stairs and then remove her via the back door.

MOO.

Back of the house has stairs as well Makara??

 

[AAAA]

Could it be that Allison's phone was thrown from a car travelling on the freeway in the vicinity of the FTP tower and it didn't move from there?

What is the timeline between the phone pinging at FTP and Gerard taking the washing basket of clothes down the front stairs of his house? Is it possible that the phone was smuggled out in the basket and then disposed of? Were the police in attendance then or only the media??

 

[Fuskier]

From Courier Mail report...


bruising on her interior chest wall

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...re-supreme-court/story-e6freoof-1226536987434

From allioop's report...

""He said she had a subdural heamatoma and bruising on interior left wall of her chest resulting from a mild degree of force.""

Perhaps Allison was standing a couple of steps down from the top step with GBC at the top....one kick at her chest from him could have been quite easily enough for her to fall backwards down the stairs.

Possible she could have been knocked to the ground on the back patio, then subdued by a knee pressing on her heart area, whilst being suffocated/strangled. It appears she fought for her life, scratching underarms, face and chest. Remember 'Scraps' the dog barking incessantly at the back fence bordering the Baden-Clay rented property? The owner stated this was unusual for the dog. My opinion only.

 

[Makara]

Back of the house has stairs as well Makara??

I was always under the impression that the back of the house was level with the ground. I've only deduced this from the attached images. I have been known to be wrong at times. :what:

 

[marlywings]

Possible she could have been knocked to the ground on the back patio, then subdued by a knee pressing on her heart area, whilst being suffocated/strangled. It appears she fought for her life, scratching underarms, face and chest. Remember 'Scraps' the dog barking incessantly at the back fence bordering the Baden-Clay rented property? The owner stated this was unusual for the dog. My opinion only.

I don't think any of us will ever forget good ole Scraps the dog...always wonder what went through a certain person's head when that dog started barking.

Yes pathology report did indicate strangulation & smothering were also possible.

December 14, 2012

Mr Boyle said the pathologist indicated the possibility Mrs Baden-Clay sustained a subdural haemorrhage, a chipped tooth and bruising on her interior chest wall, indicating an impact on the chest region of "a mild degree of force".

He said the pathology report indicated strangulation and smothering were also possible causes of death that couldn't be ruled out

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...re-supreme-court/story-e6freoof-1226536987434