Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[redlightthroughpaper]

Didn't he say his father and sister knew nothing of the affair with TMc....No mention of ( MUMMY BWANNA )The morning police arrived........He asked if they could please keep it confidential......They must be stupid if they didn't know.......of course they knew.....:banghead:....everyone else knew and she was there painting their house........The senior BC's after floods.....

I'm not sure that many people involved in affairs would tell their parents and siblings that they are having an affair.
Many people, with no motive other than to lend a hand, helped many others who had been affected by the floods.
We don't know when the assistance to covertly contact TM might have happened - it may have been after the affair was published in MSM.
All IMO.

 

[emirates1957]

It would be interesting to know when OW booked her flight (that's if she did fly) - whether it was months or just days prior. Also did she have any checked in baggage - was she planning to stay for sometime or simply return asap. Thoughts only.

 

[Liadan]

I'm not sure that many people involved in affairs would tell their parents and siblings that they are having an affair.
Many people, with no motive other than to lend a hand, helped many others who had been affected by the floods.
We don't know when the assistance to covertly contact TM might have happened - it may have been after the affair was published in MSM.
All IMO.

True - RLTP - but the affair had been going on for THREE years. People at the office and in the community knew - TM worked in that office with NBC and EBC.

 

[Couldbe]

It would be interesting to know when OW booked her flight (that's if she did fly) - whether it was months or just days prior. Also did she have any checked in baggage - was she planning to stay for sometime or simply return asap. Thoughts only.

Extract from link: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ry-disappearance/story-e6freoof-1226338290711

"I spoke to her the night before she disappeared on Thursday night and she seemed fine," she said.
"I saw her last week and she seemed normal, delightful - her normal, easygoing, beautiful-natured, thoughtful, kind-hearted self.
"As far as I know there have been no, there is no, we don't know anything about Allison's whereabouts."
Ms Walton said the family had not been distracted by the high-profile nature of Allison's disappearance, or the public speculation about where the 43-year-old might be.
"I think with any missing persons case it is a mystery and people are always going to talk.
"Allison suffers from depression, my thoughts are simply consumed with where she might be. I'm not interested in the speculation and rumours."

..... seems that Olivia may have been remaining in Brisbane from the week before.

 

[alioop]

The Committal Hearing in March ...... does anyone think that fresh evidence will be required ... to actually link GBC to Allison's murder?
...... or would this be likely to rely on strong motives and inconsistencies in his 'statements' about Allison's disappearance from their home.

If some evidence to show that both the Captiva and the Prado were seen between 10 pm and 4 am on the 19/20th April (maybe at the Kenmore Roundabout and/or at Anstead), it would pose the question of who the drivers were.

Couldbe, I think they have plenty of evidence for the committal and for the purposes of convincing a magistrate to commit him for trial on just the stuff we know such as the face scratches, the lies and inconsistencies, the activity on his phone when he said he was asleep and the insurance issues together with their extreme financial stress. Whether they have enough for a trial to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt remains to be seen.

Edit. Oops forgot to mention Allisons blood in the car and likely her hair stuck in that blood, the screams heard by the neighbours and the 6 species of plants found on her that are also found on their back patio. Yes indeed, lots of evidence which when looked at as a whole is pretty compelling.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

True - RLTP - but the affair had been going on for THREE years. People at the office and in the community knew - TM worked in that office with NBC and EBC.

But would people at the office openly gossip about their boss's affair when his mother or father were present?
I think it extremely unlikely that EBC, NBC or OW were privy to the ongoing affair prior to the Brookfield Show. IMO

 

[LadyBird1]

Couldbe, I think they have plenty of evidence for the committal and for the purposes of convincing a magistrate to commit him for trial on just the stuff we know such as the face scratches, the lies and inconsistencies, the activity on his phone when he said he was asleep and the insurance issues together with their extreme financial stress. Whether they have enough for a trial to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt remains to be seen.

Edit. Oops forgot to mention Allisons blood in the car and likely her hair stuck in that blood, the screams heard by the neighbours and the 6 species of plants found on her that are also found on their back patio. Yes indeed, lots of evidence which when looked at as a whole is pretty compelling.

Thankyou Alioop for your court report. It was very much appreciated.

I don't know if this comment is of any use court wise.
If you know you are dealing with a Liar, you may expect that all answers are Lies, with or without a grain of truth.
Personally speaking, I look for what's in between the lies. And the way the answers are given.
Example. Question "Are you having an affair?"
Answer "No, definitely not."
The truth? Forget about asking questions, it's useless. You can only expect lies. Look for signs and symptoms instead.
I also know caught out with one lie, may be forgiven maybe, caught out with two lies, exercise caution; caught out on more, expect all lies. Regard as a Liar.
(That's not including "little white lies" that don't hurt anybody, or are not intended to hurt anybody.)
I don't know if or how Lawyers or the Law can deal with these sort of people.

 

[alioop]

Thankyou Alioop for your court report. It was very much appreciated.

I don't know if this comment is of any use court wise.
If you know you are dealing with a Liar, you may expect that all answers are Lies, with or without a grain of truth.
Personally speaking, I look for what's in between the lies. And the way the answers are given.
Example. Question "Are you having an affair?"
Answer "No, definitely not."
The truth? Forget about asking questions, it's useless. You can only expect lies. Look for signs and symptoms instead.
I also know caught out with one lie, may be forgiven maybe, caught out with two lies, exercise caution; caught out on more, expect all lies. Regard as a Liar.
(That's not including "little white lies" that don't hurt anybody, or are not intended to hurt anybody.)
I don't know if or how Lawyers or the Law can deal with these sort of people.

Thanks Ladybird.Glad I could go and report on what I heard from a a legal point of view. Your question about how do lawyers deal with liars. Well defence lawyers tell their lying clients to shut up to try to minimise them being caught out telling more lies.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

Thanks Ladybird.Glad I could go and report on what I heard from a a legal point of view. Your question about how do lawyers deal with liars. Well defence lawyers tell their lying clients to shut up to try to minimise them being caught out telling more lies.

Perhaps that explains GBC's public silence after the first few days. IMO

 

[LadyBird1]

Thanks Ladybird.Glad I could go and report on what I heard from a a legal point of view. Your question about how do lawyers deal with liars. Well defence lawyers tell their lying clients to shut up to try to minimise them being caught out telling more lies.

Oh Gawd, That is not what I was hoping you'd say.
Thank-you for your response. Wish there was a way QPS, Lawyers, and Law, could circumnavigate Liars
Seems like they, the liars, have the upper hand. Tell them to just shut up.

(Doesn't seem right to me.)

 

[Liadan]

But would people at the office openly gossip about their boss's affair when his mother or father were present?
I think it extremely unlikely that EBC, NBC or OW were privy to the ongoing affair prior to the Brookfield Show. IMO

Happy that you think that RLTP - but I beg to differ - I believe GBC was not someone who hid is feelings very well when it came to his mistresses. He needed to show them how superior he was and his rippling masculine prowess. So GBC would be wanting to parade the relationships around in public. The fact that his parents are happy to pass info covertly to TM says to me that they have known and accepted her as part of the family for quite a long time. The only person they are hurting and not respecting by doing this is the person GBC married, Allison. Can you see any benefit in the BC's supporting TM n the given situation as opposed to them supporting Allison?

 

[alioop]

Oh Gawd, That is not what I was hoping you'd say.
Thank-you for your response. Wish there was a way QPS, Lawyers, and Law, could circumnavigate Liars
Seems like they, the liars, have the upper hand. Tell them to just shut up.

(Doesn't seem right to me.)

Yes it can seem like persons charged with crimes have the upper hand because they can't be forced to say anything and the law presumes them innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. However people are convicted every day because the police do their job and gather evidence and then prosecutors present that evidence in the court system. All we can do is have faith in our legal system as its the only one we have. So far 2 Supreme Court judges have believed there appears to be a strong case to support the murder charges against GBC.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Oh Gawd, That is not what I was hoping you'd say.
Thank-you for your response. Wish there was a way QPS, Lawyers, and Law, could circumnavigate Liars
Seems like they, the liars, have the upper hand. Tell them to just shut up.

(Doesn't seem right to me.)

I'm sorry but I must disagree with this. Of course there are dishonest lawyers as well as dishonest clients but -the accused may confess guilt to his barrister but want to plead not guilty. The barrister is still able to defend him but may not introduce such things as alibi evidence. This is the situation where the advice would be to 'shut up'. Onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, if they don't satisfy the jury your client gets off.
That's the short answer to the question 'how can you defend someone you know is guilty?' In many cases the barrister may suspect, but can only prepare a defence on what the client tells him. If the prosecution has the evidence and does their job well the jury usually gets it right.:twocents:

 

[DrWatson]

Your question about how do lawyers deal with liars. Well defence lawyers tell their lying clients to shut up to try to minimise them being caught out telling more lies.

Great reply there Alioop Love it And how true.... :floorlaugh:

It reminds me of one of the all-time great movies, with Richard Gere, and an outstanding performance by a very young Edward Norton, called "Primal Fear" from 1996. Definitely one worth watching if you can grab a copy or rent a copy.

And I take your point LegallyBrunette (can't shorten that to LB as we have LadyBird as well...). I assume it would be morally difficult for a barrister to defend someone he knows is guilty - strategically-wise, I mean?

 

[CouchCop]

I have been curious about the empty packets of Zoloft found in car and carport. I too take Zoloft and each pack comes with a 30 day supply. I have a habit of keeping all my meds (three types that I take on a daily basis) in a little alcove in my fridge. I can be pretty lazy about throwing out empty blister packs but I would never build up a huge supply of empty Zoloft packs.

I have just checked my prescriptions (all my 3 meds are prescribed with 5 repeats). I note that on two of the three (Zoton and Atacand) there is a note on the prescription that says "if needed before [so many days after script dispensed] pharmacist to be consulted". This notation doesn't appear on the Zoloft script. Is it possible that someone (a) had been storing up packs over a period of time (b) had a number of months supplies dispensed in a short period of time .... lends the question of possible pre-meditation? Whatever the case, each pack of Zoloft would show the date it was dispensed and the prescribing doctor's name. Surely there has to be something telling in the findings there.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Great reply there Alioop Love it And how true.... :floorlaugh:

It reminds me of one of the all-time great movies, with Richard Gere, and an outstanding performance by a very young Edward Norton, called "Primal Fear" from 1996. Definitely one worth watching if you can grab a copy or rent a copy.

And I take your point LegallyBrunette (can't shorten that to LB as we have LadyBird as well...). I assume it would be morally difficult for a barrister to defend someone he knows is guilty - strategically-wise, I mean?

Yes, can't defend as such, just do the best he can for client which may only be in submissions for sentencing assuming guilty verdict. In the situation where he becomes aware during a trial, either client must change plea or barrister withdraws from representation. Practitioner's first duty is to the Court, not the client. (not saying it always happens this way). Criminal law is not easy, I have a friend who left his successful Sydney practice, went interstate and became a lecturer in law. He said he was sick of defending drunk drivers and drug dealers. :twocents:

ETA: Last sentence - same as working in St. Vincent's Cas on a Saturday night

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Happy that you think that RLTP - but I beg to differ - I believe GBC was not someone who hid is feelings very well when it came to his mistresses. He needed to show them how superior he was and his rippling masculine prowess. So GBC would be wanting to parade the relationships around in public. The fact that his parents are happy to pass info covertly to TM says to me that they have known and accepted her as part of the family for quite a long time. The only person they are hurting and not respecting by doing this is the person GBC married, Allison. Can you see any benefit in the BC's supporting TM n the given situation as opposed to them supporting Allison?

This is no ordinary family (their opinion of themselves). Blood is everything. They would support TM if she was the choice of golden boy. This is a very muddy gene pool (speaking with genealogist's hat).:twocents:

 

[DrWatson]

Last sentence - same as working in St. Vincent's Cas on a Saturday night

Been there, done that. The infamous PFO Parade every Fri and Sat after 10pm.

And for those not in the "trade" - PFO = Pissed and Fell Over.

Sorry - off topic, but nostalgic!

And for those who may have missed my line about the movie "Primal Fear" - find a copy in the local rental store and watch it - one of the all time greats! And a fabulous acting performance by Edward Norton, before he became much more famous. That's not really off topic - the movie has echoes of some of the cases that are discussed here on WS.

 

[they'll get you]

Been there, done that. The infamous PFO Parade every Fri and Sat after 10pm.

And for those not in the "trade" - PFO = Pissed and Fell Over.

Sorry - off topic, but nostalgic!

And for those who may have missed my line about the movie "Primal Fear" - find a copy in the local rental store and watch it - one of the all time greats! And a fabulous acting performance by Edward Norton, before he became much more famous. That's not really off topic - the movie has echoes of some of the cases that are discussed here on WS.[/

Primal Fear is a brilliant movie and I remember it whenever I'm reading Webslueths. What a performance! I think of that movie whenever i see husbands/ boyfriends who stand in front of the cameras pleading for the safe return of their wives only "to be found guilty of the same murder, how many times we se this??
Oh but how wrong was my hunch with our Jill Meagher(I'm sorry Tom)

 

[Fuskier]

... The fact that his parents are happy to pass info covertly to TM says to me that they have known and accepted her as part of the family for quite a long time ...

Good, solid point there IMO Liadan. Allegedly, the GBC's relationship with TMcH endured for four years.