Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[Chief of Funtime]

So, if the water never reached that level, then she cannot have been in the muddy area we were discussing a day or so ago? Then the body must have been found further up the bank? Now I'm again confused!!! :banghead:

Me too . Does this mean that th decomposition had nothing to do with water dwelling creatures ?

 

[CaseClosed]

Me too . Does this mean that th decomposition had nothing to do with water dwelling creatures ?

I don't know anymore! I'm sooooo looking forward to the 11th!!! Hopefully the Committal will clarify some of these things for us, because I cannot think clearly anymore, with all the different scenarios we are all coming up with (when we don't have all the information yet).

 

[KG1]

No sorry , just realized it was the wrong side of the neck

You're right - forget the car accident I mentioned. Getting my left and right mixed up.:what:

 

[marlywings]

Bumping up a part of my post from earlier today....

Another reminder....please don't post rumours. If it's not mentioned in MSM or police reports it's not allowed & will be removed..

 

[KG1]

Thanks for reposting that one KG...interesting revisiting all the old pics! I'm not sure whether it's actual scratch marks or as Doc has mentioned, chafing..although I don't really agree with that either. The polo shirt of that type is usually made of polyester & cotton, softer type fabric, not really harsh at all. Also, the pic is from the video taken on the day he arrived home from his recuperating stay in hospital following the "accident"....I've no idea what he wore in hospital but I don't imagine it would have been itchy scratchy shirts...lol.

Then again, maybe they are scratch marks & he wore the collared type shirts in an attempt to cover them. I don't recall seeing any photos of him in a shirt without a collar.

On revisiting the old pics I came across the pie face photo....if you zoom in close enough, just above the top button where the shirt opens, there looks to be a bruise & some sort of, almost circular type, marks of dry skin.

Yes, Marly, it does look like a bruise and dry skin when enlarged, but I am really not sure.

 

[marlywings]

Enough!!...you have all been asked numerous times not to post rumours & not to post info from the affidavit unless it's been reported in MSM. You are also asked to supply a link with that info.

As from this post, I'll be inviting Kimster in, with her ray gun. If you continue to ignore the rules you will find yourself on time out.

 

[Amee]

Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2M2gx525I

He said that the Crown's case "at its highest'' could be reduced to some scratches on Baden-Clay's face, which were shaving cuts, scratches on his torso, neck and palm of his hand and his mobile telephone being removed from the charger in the middle of night when he had apparently told police that he was asleep all night.''

http://www.news.com.au/national/nat...-documents-claim/story-e6frfkvr-1226413294650

 

[Oz Jen]

IMO The reason GBC would say the death was accidental and unintended would be thinking the repercussions might be lighter. He has already tried the suicide stunt. What next...bearing in mind what's best for GBC.
Regarding the "covert" affair, there are certain "men" who take great pride in such things. They regard it as a status symbol. (Heh heh, just between men, if you know what I mean. Bet he never slyly spoke of same to a female officer.)
The car crash IMO was another diversion tactic to avoid questioning. He was buying time. Any time with which he could distance himself from the initial matter would be beneficial.
Time to go to church and look like a normal God fearing person. Bought nearly a day there.
Time to avoid being intensely grilled at first instance.
Time to grow a beard.
Time to throw in some diversions, example the staged car crash.
Time generally clouds the details of important issues.
Howzatt for a few holes?
Sorry and all. But you did invite scrutiny!
IMO Everything got completely out of hand, when the one affair exposed two or three more, then these new fangled Internet sleuthing sites indicated the public wasn't buying the simple wife died story. Odd that, 'cos the media seemed to be eating out of the hand. Well on the surface anyway. The QPS? Dunno what went wrong there. Colonial state and all.

Thank you Ladybird! The more holes that may discount my fear of GBC defence being 'accidental' the merrier for me! IMO

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks for your post Makara. This vegetation has puzzled me somewhat, but have not seen it discussed in detail (maybe I missed it). From the reports that I read in the Courier mail the material was found around the head, arms and body does not comment on large amounts. The prosecution presented this as new evidence establishing Alison at Brookfield and in the area of her back patio. However, as you said she could have easily taken a walk to the back yard when she got home (probably before GBC and the girls). Or the "comfy clothes" she changed into could have been worn before and had plant material on them. We don't always wash casual clothes every day. I believe this information could be consistent with the suicide theory if Alison jumped from the bridge which was put forth by Mr Davis at the last bail application.. That of course leaves a big gap in how she actually got to the bridge but the prosecution have no evidence how GBC got to the bridge. There was no physical evidence eg. mud, plant material, photographs going through roundabouts etc. that placed GBC at Kholo either. Dr Watson could the bruising to the chest wall and even the chipped tooth be consistent with a jump from the Kholo bridge?

The assumption has been made that the "rivulets of blood" are Alison's but it appears that they were only luminol tested and as yet there has been no evidence presented of DNA confirmation. This was reported in the Courier Mail following the second bail application. This aspect of the evidence I will await with interest. Makara where was it reported that GBC had not got around to putting up the seats into an upright position before he reported Alison missing to the police? I don't disbelieve you, I just don't recall having read that anywhere... <respectfully snipped> ...
I think Dr Watson quite successfully debunked the overdose of Zoloft theory but, if she was upset, took extra Zoloft to ease the hurt, would suicide by a different means eg jumping off the bridge be a possibiility?

Following earlier case discussion, one Key gap in the case, as we know it publically, is that we don't actually know Allison's whereabouts after the hairdressers. Police queried whether Allison went missing as early as 8.00pm that evening. This was widely reported in MSM articles.

As far as I know the whereabouts of the children that evening still needs to be established. Were they at their grandparent's house? What time they were taken home, or by whom? Did they actually see their mother at home that evening? Hopefully we will learn more from the Committal hearing.

Regarding Allison's clothing, it is possible the children saw what she was wearing if she dropped them off at the grandparents before attending the hairdresser. The hairdresser may recall her clothing. Hopefully, Police may have established this information from them, hence the mannequin displayed on the side of the road early in the Police investigation.

Regarding the plant material found in Allison's hair, body and clothing, it has been established that the 6 species found come from around the back patio of the Brookfield house, of which two species also grow at Kholo bridge. This plant material survived inclement weather, and possible tidal conditions during the 11 days that Allison's body lay at Kholo Bridge. My opinion tends towards the plant material most likely being matted into her hair and clothing as she lay horizontal on the ground fighting for her life and/or being 'dragged' through the vegetation on the way to being placed in the Captiva. It did not fall off during transportation, so this may tend towards some kind of wrap being used during transportation.

Regarding the rivulets of blood allegedly found in the Captiva, we need forensic information as to the reason they are referred to as 'rivulets' and not smudges, smears, patches, etc. Does this imply a fresh bleed from a heart still possibly pumping when she was placed in the Captiva? Hopefully we will learn more from the Committal hearing.

Regarding the Captiva, MSM images (both tv & print media) did show the car backed into the carport that morning. Another MSM image showed the rear of the Captiva nicely vacummed, with two neat boxes of children's toys carefuly placed in the back. Unless I missed it, where was it reported that GBC had not got around to putting up the seats into an upright position before he reported Allison missing to the police? I imagine this would be a Key piece of evidence, one I had not heard previously.

In my opinion, some evidence has been released, reported in MSM, which tends towards a certain direction at this stage. No doubt there will be much more released at the Commital hearing. This evidence still needs to be tested at Court.
I look forward to the Prosecution case establishing evidence as to what most likely happened. I look forward to the Defense establishing a reasonable alternative to what mostly likely happened. In my opinion, there are Key gaps in information released to the public at this stage. Hopefully, we will learn more from the upcoming Committal hearing.

 

[LadyBird1]

Another MSM image showed the rear of the Captiva nicely vacummed, with two neat boxes of children's toys carefuly placed in the back.

This small matter has never sat right with me.
Worse, it makes my hair stand up. And my blood feel eerily cold.
What is so darned important about carting children's toys in boxes in the back of the car? At least when the TV camera is facing the car.
Is it just me, or is it odd or different? Am I a meanie, or there something else that's been missed. Why boxes, and why so many children's toys?

 

[Amee]

Looking through some of Allisons photo's she wore a watch on her left hand. Just wondering if she had it on and whether the watch during a struggle left marks on GBC.
Reason being my kids were wrestling lastnight and the watch my son was wearing left nasty marks on my daughters arm.
Also if she was wearing earrings maybe one was ripped out during the struggle and the blood in the car came from her earlobe? MOO
thinking out loud I guess

 

[Makara]

Regarding the Captiva, MSM images (both tv & print media) did show the car backed into the carport that morning. Another MSM image showed the rear of the Captiva nicely vacummed, with two neat boxes of children's toys carefuly placed in the back. Unless I missed it, where was it reported that GBC had not got around to putting up the seats into an upright position before he reported Allison missing to the police? I imagine this would be a Key piece of evidence, one I had not heard previously.

<Snipped>

Fuskier, it has never been reported that GBC had not got around to putting up the seats into an upright position before he reported Allison missing. It is my opinion, my speculation that this is what happened. I also have not seen it reported that the Captiva was nicely vacuumed. Do you have a link for that?

ETA: The reason for my speculation about the seats in the Captiva is that I believe Allison was placed in there with the back seats in the down position. If GBC had put the seats back into the upright position after disposing of Allison's body, in all likelihood he would have seen the blood and would have cleaned it. That didn't happen. The blood was only visible when the seats were in the upright position as can be seen in the footage after the luminol testing.

MOO.

 

[Makara]

Wow, so many different things being discussed in the last 24 hours!

I agree with the fact that police can get things wrong, very wrong sometimes, and that's why innocent people are in jail and some are now being released with advances in DNA technology, etc. But, the majority of police officers are dedicated people, who have the interest of justice as their purpose in a case like this.

Scratches ... it is obvious that he grew the beard and had his mobile phone constantly to his right cheek in the early days because he was hiding these from the public/media. I believe Allison inflicted those scratches, but it doesn't really matter to me how she did it. She could have been held from behind, in a choke hold, she could have twisted and turned to try and release it, she could have been on her back, etc. I believe he strangled her in a fit of rage, and I don't believe he had planned on doing it.

Contrary to my early scenario, I also now believe he rolled her off the edge of the bridge and did not carry/drag her to where she was found.

This is a difficult case. It has many unanswered questions (at least for the public at this stage), but I subscribe to the KISS principle. They argued, fought, he lost it, killed her and dumped her ... and then had to make up something to explain away all the little clues that were left behind. He also then saw in his own twisted, selfish, self-centred mind, the bonus of collecting on her insurance policies to solve all his other problems. Whether he intended on killing her or not, the least he deserves is jail time for manslaughter. Yes, I know there is the presumption of innocence, but for me, he is not innocent. All my opinion only.

Well said CC and I totally agree with you.

 

[BreakingNews]

This small matter has never sat right with me.
Worse, it makes my hair stand up. And my blood feel eerily cold.
What is so darned important about carting children's toys in boxes in the back of the car? At least when the TV camera is facing the car.
Is it just me, or is it odd or different? Am I a meanie, or there something else that's been missed. Why boxes, and why so many children's toys?

There could be many reasons for boxes of toys in the boot of a car. Sometimes I have put toys that are no longer played with into a box and it sits in the boot of my car until I happen to go past a goodwill place. Or I have put toys into a box in the boot of my car when my child was going to Grandma's for a few days.

Wasn't GBC pictured carrying a box of toys out of the Brookfield house after Allison was missing? This was when they were staying with NBC & EBC at Kenmore. I would have collected a box of toys also for the girls at that stage.

I doubt that there is anything sinister in this, but anything is possible in this case.

 

[alioop]

<Snipped>

Fuskier, it has never been reported that GBC had not got around to putting up the seats into an upright position before he reported Allison missing. It is my opinion, my speculation that this is what happened. I also have not seen it reported that the Captiva was nicely vacuumed. Do you have a link for that?

I think these assumptions may have come about because of the photos of the inside of the captiva that they police took and we have all seen in MSM. The middle and rear rows of seats were down and the interior and carpet looked very clean, though bear in mind the car was newly purchased a few weeks prior so it should still look shiny and clean.

 

[alioop]

With the toys in the back of the captiva, isn't the implied suggestion that if GBC transported Allison in the back of the captiva, that afterwards he found some items such as old toys that may have been say stored in the carport, to put in the car as some sort of decoy of what he used the car for that night?

 

[Makara]

Looking through some of Allisons photo's she wore a watch on her left hand. Just wondering if she had it on and whether the watch during a struggle left marks on GBC.
Reason being my kids were wrestling lastnight and the watch my son was wearing left nasty marks on my daughters arm.
Also if she was wearing earrings maybe one was ripped out during the struggle and the blood in the car came from her earlobe? MOO
thinking out loud I guess

Good thinking Amee. I'm wondering if the cut on GBC's hand was caused by Allison's watch.

 

[Makara]

With the toys in the back of the captiva, isn't the implied suggestion that if GBC transported Allison in the back of the captiva, that afterwards he found some items such as old toys that may have been say stored in the carport, to put in the car as some sort of decoy of what he used the car for that night?

Yes Ali, that's how I see it. Perhaps the toys were already in the back of the Captiva and GBC had to remove them before putting Allison there. On his return, he replaced the toys as if nothing had happened.

All my opinion. :twocents:

 

[possumheart]

Just to indulge myself and share what I find most disturbing and why I lose sleep:
Allison was missing ...
Mrs Dickie: "Our lives will never, never be the same".
Olivia: "We just want to be normal".
These two statements are like chalk and cheese, oil and water. I haven't provided links as I think they are an unforgettable standout to anyone who has been following.

 

[Amee]

Mr Boyle said Allison's blood was found in Baden-Clay's car, and "the quantity and position of the blood" suggested that the seat had been "laid flat to make it a boot".

At first glance it looked like the boot of any family car full of their daughters toys but police say, behind them they found their mother's blood.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/14044887/more-on-baden-clay-bail-bid-revealed/