Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[breno84]

Thanks, and not a problem, Glad to share!
As for the signal strength, Yes phones will get a patchy signal down a drain. We regularly consult our smartphones to keep an eye on the radar while exploring (Golden rule - When it rains, no drains!) All the local drains will have a common outfall somewhere which will be in whichever local creek/river is nearest and conveniant. They are often subject to tide activity and can be hard to spot but I'm sure someone local would know where it is.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Those "One Blow Can Kill" cases can involve an extradural bleed (I know of at least one here in Brisbane that occurred down the Valley a couple of years ago) - fractured side of skull on the edge of the pavement, torn artery, etc.

Another one that I'm aware of in Sydney involved a fracture of the base of the skull with disruption of part of the brain stem. And I'm referring here to the true anatomical "base of skull" - not the back, top, or side that can be seen covered by scalp etc. The base is not visible from the outside - it is above and behind the facial skeleton.

But none of those types of events would apply in Allison's case. I think the expression used at the second bail hearing involved the "possibility of a minor subdural haematoma" or words to that effect. It couldn't be ruled out - in other words they couldn't say that it definitely was one...

O/T but there was also a big case of that in Canada. My extended family started the whole one punch can kill campaign in Alberta.

Another O/T. Watched a 48 hour episode last night. A wife was found dead in the toilet, slumped on the floor with strange marks on her neck.
Husband was arrested, went to trial. Defense argued that the paramedics caused the marks on her neck when they tried unsuccessfully to insert the breathing tube and also believed this 34 year old lady had a heart attack.Really hard case for a jury. Both had medical experts. His mother in law took the stand to defend him. He got off.

 

[they'll get you]

Sorry to butt in but there's something about the missing iphone that still bothers me. Now I'm pretty sure It was reported in the CM that Police and SES volunteers were searching in the 150m 'Hot zone' and that included looking down gutters, drains etc BUT: Did the search include a thorough walk through of the entire drain system from the outfall inwards? (If the local drains are sizeable enough to accommodate this) Being a bit of an Urbex nutter I've been down plenty of drains myself, last time we were exploring some CBD drains a few months back I found both a mobile phone AND a digital camera both within about 150m of each other. Memory cards still intact. And both of them had been down there for quite some time. Both packed full of silt and showing signs of corrosion. This led me to think that they were dropped into a gutter box or similair drain by accident, far up from where the man accessible parts of the drain branch off into much smaller pipes (We call this a 'Shrinker')
So. Assuming the possibility that Allisons phone could have been thrown into such a system and become lodged with all the other debris, there's a good chance it's still down there but slowly making its way toward the outfall as the water keeps trickling. There is always eroded sections in these systems where cracks and pits develop over time also which trap items (Coins galore, for example)
If you were to ask me my first guess as to where would be worth looking at again, It's the drains. Honestly I wouldn't mind having a look myself.

Hi breno84 it's great to see some fresh blood on board, that Iphone 3 has always bothered us all! I feel that phone sparked the row and it's sitting quietly close by as well. GBC or anyone had plenty of time to discard that phone ANYWHERE. We have racked our collective brains about that phone over the time since Allison went missing, I've thought there could have been a fight over her wanting to call/text TM and GBC went crazy and Allison ran out with the phone and that's when he caught her in the garden. Something fused that argument and I feel it was over the affair which could have been a threatened phone/text call.

In many ways I feel Allison is speaking to us, she got those scratches in and possibly she threw her phone into the paddock in her last stance of defiance or did he throw it.
Snaps was going ape ***** so who knows what happenned at the boundary fence line. Did GBC have to go looking for the phone in the next door paddock?

DO IPHONES FLOAT? I don't really want to try with mine :waitasec:

 

[they'll get you]

A sluether reported the police were at the house about a week ago....possibly they had a look around again.
Would a metal detector pick up a mobile phone?

 

[DrWatson]

Yes, a metal detector will pick up a phone - but they had whole teams with metal detectors combing over the area in the early days.

Just re the stormwater drain thoughts - good thinking, but most of Brookfield doesn't actually have them. It is a semi-rural suburb, with grassy sidewalks (or none at all), very hilly, no kerbs and guttering apart from a few spots (eg outside the local store). I live not too far away from the BC house, and there are no drains where I am - the surface water simply runs over the land into one of the creeks. Brookfield - at least the older long-established part where the BC house is - has roads that are like country roads.

There are a couple of stormwater drains I can think of - one in front of a property on Brookfield Rd just inbound from the tennis courts, running under their access drive, another down near the showgrounds that takes water under the road near the roundabout and into Moggill Creek.

Don't forget that the majority of Brookfield also doesn't have sewerage - we use BioCycles, Ozzikleens, or septic systems. The newer areas like Huntingdon Estate do have sewerage I think - installed when it was developed about 20-odd years ago.

So while it's a good thought, I do have doubts that Allison's phone would be in a stormwater drain.

 

[CaseClosed]

..... 6 ......

 

[Curiousasacat]

Just while I have a minute......
Some of you are probably aware I like to send out thank you's and one person who I've been meaning to give a shout out to is KG1.
Our pretty quiet but always here member.
You are a loyal member on all of these forums and I'm sure that we're all glad you're here.

 

[Maigret]

Yes, a metal detector will pick up a phone - but they had whole teams with metal detectors combing over the area in the early days.

Just re the stormwater drain thoughts - good thinking, but most of Brookfield doesn't actually have them. It is a semi-rural suburb, with grassy sidewalks (or none at all), very hilly, no kerbs and guttering apart from a few spots (eg outside the local store). I live not too far away from the BC house, and there are no drains where I am - the surface water simply runs over the land into one of the creeks. Brookfield - at least the older long-established part where the BC house is - has roads that are like country roads.

There are a couple of stormwater drains I can think of - one in front of a property on Brookfield Rd just inbound from the tennis courts, running under their access drive, another down near the showgrounds that takes water under the road near the roundabout and into Moggill Creek.

Don't forget that the majority of Brookfield also doesn't have sewerage - we use BioCycles, Ozzikleens, or septic systems. The newer areas like Huntingdon Estate do have sewerage I think - installed when it was developed about 20-odd years ago.

So while it's a good thought, I do have doubts that Allison's phone would be in a stormwater drain.

I think that the phone was hidden ( triangulated to 150m of house early on) and then smashed to smithereens in someone's workshop (skull manor perhaps)

 

[DrWatson]

I think that the phone was hidden ( triangulated to 150m of house early on) and then smashed to smithereens in someone's workshop (skull manor perhaps)

What a good thought, Maigret. While everyone is searching for the phone, the pieces are distributed into the rubbish bin, for example (not necessarily their own) and the SIM card is simply burned so it can't be read.

Good thinking outside the box...!

 

[alioop]

To me there are two parts to this puzzle, what happened to the phone and why it was missing. Was it just because someone realised that if Allison had left the house she would have taken her phone, so they had to get rid of the phone to support the walk story. It makes sense that a woman going for a walk would just take her phone and nothing else. So it was ok not to try to get rid of her handbag too.

 

[linette]

I think that the phone was hidden ( triangulated to 150m of house early on) and then smashed to smithereens in someone's workshop (skull manor perhaps)

This is exactly what i think too. Smashed beyond recognition. If he had control over the phone I doubt he would have left it anywhere where there was any chance that it could be found. Way too risky. Smashed and totally ruined is what i think. Thought that from the beginning.

 

[squizzey1]

Sorry Squiz Im a bit lost here. You said the girls were still going to Pullenvale School and this other inside info about NBC I dont wish to repeat, that maybe or maybe not true. Im not sure what I took the wrong way? :waitasec:


Im so confused here atm Im going back to lurking until the 11th. (which is a public holiday for us )

Sorry I thought you were inferring I just posted it to get the forum going:truce:

 

[breno84]

While I do agree It's very likely that GBC would have loved to destroy her phone as soon as he could, the thing that always bothered me most was that it was still active when the search crews were looking for it.
My theory is its been turned off but obviously with the battery still in, kept on pinging. GBC more than likely didn't realise this to be the case. So the possibility beckons that its been ditched where even he wasn't able to retrieve it at a later time which is what led me to the drain theory, if it were down say a 400mm pipe which is fairly common for gutter run-off he sure wasn't going to be able to reach or squeeze his way in.
If he was driving around 'looking' for Allison as he told police he could have found a suitable access somewhere - such as where Doc mentioned.
Triangulation isn't the most reliable pinpoint either, so if it were underground perhaps that has affected the signal enough to further misrepresent its actual location?
Thanks to everyone for your replies, it certainly helps one to develop their theories with a bit of local knowledge Keep on Sleuthin!'

 

[linette]

While I do agree It's very likely that GBC would have loved to destroy her phone as soon as he could, the thing that always bothered me most was that it was still active when the search crews were looking for it.
My theory is its been turned off but obviously with the battery still in, kept on pinging. GBC more than likely didn't realise this to be the case. So the possibility beckons that its been ditched where even he wasn't able to retrieve it at a later time which is what led me to the drain theory, if it were down say a 400mm pipe which is fairly common for gutter run-off he sure wasn't going to be able to reach or squeeze his way in.
If he was driving around 'looking' for Allison as he told police he could have found a suitable access somewhere - such as where Doc mentioned.
Triangulation isn't the most reliable pinpoint either, so if it were underground perhaps that has affected the signal enough to further misrepresent its actual location?
Thanks to everyone for your replies, it certainly helps one to develop their theories with a bit of local knowledge Keep on Sleuthin!'

Good thinking. There's also the fact that GBC was being so closely watched that he possibly didn't have a chance to go back and get the phone. He didn't expect to be watched so closely afterall.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

...door to door canvassing required to see who owns a thermomix - those things will pulverise anything in less than 10seconds flat!!!!

 

[Radster]

I think that the phone was hidden ( triangulated to 150m of house early on) and then smashed to smithereens in someone's workshop (skull manor perhaps)

That's what I've always thought too, Maigret. Throwing it away, even in a drain, would have seemed too risky to someone in a state of panic.

 

[Couldbe]

To me there are two parts to this puzzle, what happened to the phone and why it was missing. Was it just because someone realised that if Allison had left the house she would have taken her phone, so they had to get rid of the phone to support the walk story. It makes sense that a woman going for a walk would just take her phone and nothing else. So it was ok not to try to get rid of her handbag too.

If there was info on the phone which might have been able to incriminate GBC, then I can see that he would want to smash it to smithereens to eradicate the evidence.

If there was nothing on it which would actually incriminate GBC, then I have thought that he would have just thrown it into the bushes somewhere in the vicinity of Brookfield Rd (where they lived) to simulate an attack on Allison while she was on 'her walk'.

Despite all the searching by Police and SES, apparently it has not yet been found, so I think it is quite reasonable to assume that it contained incriminating evidence for 'someone' involved in her murder....maybe even a photo.

 

[LadyBird1]

To me there are two parts to this puzzle, what happened to the phone and why it was missing. Was it just because someone realised that if Allison had left the house she would have taken her phone, so they had to get rid of the phone to support the walk story. It makes sense that a woman going for a walk would just take her phone and nothing else. So it was ok not to try to get rid of her handbag too.

I don't believe that Allison's "walk" got very far at all on the night of the 19th April. Meaning not past the patio of the house.
Somehow she had plant material from the patio in her hair. And I doubt that Allison would have soiled her beautiful new hairdo deliberately herself.
Therefore I believe that Allison would not have had any control over her phone's whereabouts from that time.
Due to it possibly containing incriminating evidence, it might have been in the assailant's best interests to destroy same. And then plead ignorance, or even nothing at all.
The phone as discussed above could have been distributed over many places at a later date. IMO.

 

[lycheefarmer]

I'm living up to my contrarian nature! Just imagine for a moment that Allison did indeed commit suicide...maybe she threw her own phone away???

 

[Makara]

I'm living up to my contrarian nature! Just imagine for a moment that Allison did indeed commit suicide...maybe she threw her own phone away???

Yep, threw her phone away somewhere in the Figtree Pocket area and then threw herself off the Kholo Creek bridge. Sorry, it doesn't work for me. :twocents: