Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

[Trooper]

Gerard doesn't know how do to grief..... he didn't practice it... frankly, I think the only person who has ever seen the real Gerard was, of all people , Fleggy.. When Gerard rocked up to beg for $400,00.00 at Fleggs office and got a knockback with out any sugarcoating, according to Flegg, he burst into tears and was 'most distressed'...... a most interesting tiny window into Gerard right there....

 

[sosocurious]

The 8.28 pm call from ABC's phone to OW seems significant somehow.
Either she was the last person to speak to ABC other than GBC.
Or she was talking to GBC from that phone IMO.

 

[Couldbe]

Could be NBC and EBC internet records show they connected to net at 6.32am on the 20th. Very coincidental the times.

.... part of the plan to support Allison walking in the morning? As Trooper said, part of a previous plan ....... for when he had planned that he would receive a call saying that Allison wasn't at the Conference; and his Parents then said that she had talked with them at 6.32 am (as pointed out by you Sosocurious).

Or was GBC deleting information from the phone and accidentally connected with NBC and EBC.

 

[Trooper]

from Could Be...

'Or was GBC deleting information from the phone and accidentally connected with NBC and EBC. '

it was his first murders as far as we know, he was bound to make errors..... the thing about working out a different scenario from what actually happened is that time moves relentlessly on for everyone... the sun rises it sets on you, me and people who murder, they get no special dispensation . time goes forward, but Gerard had to work backwards... he has to put himself on the imagined situation of what he WOULD be doing if he HADNT just offed his wife...

Gerard had problems with the reality of his present situation .... he'd been living in a manufactured and day dreaming fantasy life for years probably... reality was closing in though, and I don't doubt that murdering Al was confronting for him...

 

[Trooper]

Either Gerard did it or he didn't...if he didn't murder Alison he has to be the luckiest bloke on that day in the whole world... here you are , say,, a demanding and relentless mistress plus a few extra bonks thrown in here and there..a mistress who gives ultimatums, no less.. and one on that day , too!

Your wife has found out that you have recommenced an affair you said you stopped. You have to attend counselling sessions..this wife is also at your office now, where everyone knows the trouble you are in.

You owe money... big gobs of it, to your father , to banks, to partners, to god knows who, ( but we WILL know to whom shortly )business is failing rapidly, yet just as rapidly the deadline for payments are looming. No one will lend you any more. All your talk and blather has not moved these horrors one centimeter..

The ONLY asset that is even remotely possible is insurance on your wife, and her superannuation payout... but this is remote and untouchable.. UNLESS...

Then out of the blue, one morning... just an ordinary morning, up and showered and shaved, get kids lunches, you find that some kind stranger has solved ALL your problems for you by abducting and killing your wife!!.... how amazing is that>???

 

[Trooper]

even more astonishing... you are the only man ON THAT SAME DAY, who has his face chunked by a caterpillar with peculiarly human fingernails!!

 

[Couldbe]

from Could Be...

'Or was GBC deleting information from the phone and accidentally connected with NBC and EBC. '

it was his first murders as far as we know, he was bound to make errors..... the thing about working out a different scenario from what actually happened is that time moves relentlessly on for everyone... the sun rises it sets on you, me and people who murder, they get no special dispensation . time goes forward, but Gerard had to work backwards... he has to put himself on the imagined situation of what he WOULD be doing if he HADNT just offed his wife...

Gerard had problems with the reality of his present situation .... he'd been living in a manufactured and day dreaming fantasy life for years probably... reality was closing in though, and I don't doubt that murdering Al was confronting for him...

Trooper, I believe that you have GBC summed up pretty well; and I don't think that your description is necessarily confined to just one member of the family!!!

Sadly, I can imagine that it has come about principally as a legacy of the Founder of the Boy Scout Movement, Robert Baden Powell.
With the boy scouts salute and constant 'respect' for that man, I think that the BC family have felt the need to try and enjoy this elevated pride and absorbed it unrealistically (changing their name along the way) ..... all to their detriment.

Even more sad is that Allison ever became mixed up in this family ...... she was one who was able to stand on her very own merit.

 

[DrWatson]

Some good thinking going on over the last couple of pages - good stuff.

I particularly like Trooper's thoughts about GBC being the luckiest bloke in the world!

Just re the "run down by car" scenario - that would have shown up at autopsy, for sure. Any blunt trauma that was enough to have killed Allison, or at least rendered her unconscious and injured enough that she died shortly after, would have been apparent.

 

[Couldbe]

Only one person on this earth doesn't want Allisons phone to surface!

Could it be that GBC intends to play it as his last trump card at the trial? ..... meaning that he had done his research in self-incrimination on the internet, and that phone of Allison's would hold a key to when she was last recorded alive (the last phone call from it at 6.31 am on the morning that GBC reported her missing).

......... however could it be proven that it wasn't Allison who made that call?

......... if there is evidence which concludes that she had met her demise in a timeframe prior to being able to make that call, he may not have figured on that being established.

......... it would remain for Detectives to somehow link the call to GBC. The Phone Record of GBC shows that he made calls to Allison's phone at 6.32am (one minute after the call from Allison's phone) / 6.38am / 6.45am (from the Brookfield Telstra Tower area).

......... it seems to me that, unless GBC made the call while out driving in the Fig Tree Pocket Telstra Tower area, 'someone other than GBC & BC Seniors made that call!!!

 

[alioop]

From memory the 6.31 am connection from Allisons phone to Fig Tree Pocket tower was an Internet connection. So it was likely an automatic connection by the phone even if say it was sitting in a bush or a car seat for eg. It didn't have to be with any person at that time for the connection to be made though of course it may have been, we just don't know who had it or where it was, just that it connected to the tower.

Ages ago I looked at Allisons phone records and could see prior long Internet connections to one tower during which Allison made calls from different towers. So what I gleaned from that was that the Internet connections were automatic in the background so to speak and that the bill recorded the tower of initial connection even though she may have been driving all over Brisbane and making calls from different locations via different towers. My point is that the connection for the 6.31 am call was shown as Fig Tree Pocket but after that the phone could have been moved anywhere.

 

[possumheart]

I think what put Gerard already off his stride was the girl who called early in the morning.. Al and she had arranged to drive together to the function, the real estate thingy, and Gerard didn't know this detail ( see transcript of interview),,, I think her call put a cat among Gerards pigeons big time... he then has to be worried much earlier than originally decided, in my opinion... I think he was going to be the puzzled guy when told Al didn't turn up at the function, not this early morning stuff...

Are you imagining that his initial intention was to say he had left home without seeing Alison that morning, dropping the kids at school himself whilst she was still on her walk???
Otherwise you aren't making sense to me at all.

 

[alioop]

Are you imagining that his initial intention was to say he had left home without seeing Alison that morning, dropping the kids at school himself whilst she was still on her walk???
Otherwise you aren't making sense to me at all.

I just wanted to add Poss that if this was the plan to get "worried" later in the day, how would he have explained how Allison got to the conference unless he had planned to leave the car away from the house later in the day to make out he assumed she left in the car for the conference. Or maybe he could have said she was going to get the bus but I don't think that a likely mode of transport for Allison.
But I do agree with trooper that the call from Allisons ride for the conference may have put a spanner in the works.
I think that the location of Allisons car was a sticky situation. What to do with it? Leaving it at home doesn't support the suicide theory but I don't think he had any thoughts of that theory til well later.

 

[Couldbe]

From memory the 6.31 am connection from Allisons phone to Fig Tree Pocket tower was an Internet connection. So it was likely an automatic connection by the phone even if say it was sitting in a bush or a car seat for eg. It didn't have to be with any person at that time for the connection to be made though of course it may have been, we just don't know who had it or where it was, just that it connected to the tower.

Ages ago I looked at Allisons phone records and could see prior long Internet connections to one tower during which Allison made calls from different towers. So what I gleaned from that was that the Internet connections were automatic in the background so to speak and that the bill recorded the tower of initial connection even though she may have been driving all over Brisbane and making calls from different locations via different towers. My point is that the connection for the 6.31 am call was shown as Fig Tree Pocket but after that the phone could have been moved anywhere.

Thank you Alioop; I think that I understand better now.... well probably not quite fully.

hopefully this is not a silly question, but... do you think that the automatic connection at the exact time of 6.31am, provides evidence that the phone became energised at that time .... due to the phone itself, one way or another passing into the Fig Tree Pocket Tower area?

 

[alioop]

Thank you Alioop; I think that I understand better now.... well probably not quite fully.

hopefully this is not a silly question, but... do you think that the automatic connection at the exact time of 6.31am, provides evidence that the phone became energised at that time .... due to the phone itself, one way or another passing into the Fig Tree Pocket Tower area?

Not a silly question Couldbe. I think it just proves the phone was turned on, had battery life and had to be in the vicinity of the fig tree pocket tower at 6.31 am. 5 mins later it may have no longer been in the vicinity of the tower. The phone may have been turned on for some time before that connection though. It may have been turned on since the night before but made no automatic connections to the Internet and no calls were made from it. So the first activity on the phone was the automatic Internet connection at 6.31 am.

 

[alioop]

Law list is online. Baden-clay matter is on at 10 am tomorrow in court 3, floor 3 at the Supreme Court before Justice Applegarth

 

[marlywings]

Thanks alioop...

BADEN-CLAY - Justice Applegarth - Court 3 - Floor 3 - 10:00 AM

(Pre-Trial Hearing - Appearance and Legal Representatives Required)

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__external/CourtsLawList/Brisbane.htm

 

[Couldbe]

Are you imagining that his initial intention was to say he had left home without seeing Alison that morning, dropping the kids at school himself whilst she was still on her walk???
Otherwise you aren't making sense to me at all.

Possumheart and Alioop, I thought that Trooper may have just been onto something because .....

GBC's plan may have been 'business as usual' in that he and BC Senior (vacuum cleaner and hose in hand) had to go to a house property at 57 Woodfield Road, which was being auctioned that day (GBC's own interview statement). Regardless of the fact that Allison hadn't returned, GBC and his Father were going to attend to this in a 'normal' fashion..GBC all dressed in business shirt and tie.

To get the kids to school, as he said he had phoned Olivia to do that for him (they were coming down the stairs ..off to school at 8 am).

As the Conference was to commence at 8.30am (GBC said that he had been unaware that Allison was going to meet with Kate Rankin and they were travel together...until Kate phoned early at approx 7am).

........so, I figured that he wasn't going to bother reporting Allison missing at that time (it was quite early for a missing person report!) ...... all the players would have been gone from the house by 8am ... Allison's vehicle would have been still at the house (be it all nicely cleaned) for her to travel in ... when and if she returned (so he would have said).

But, following Kate's phone call at 7am, this then highlighted that Allison would not have just left Kate in the lurch, and maybe there had better be a change of plan ..... to ring '000' and at least put in a call and show some concern that Allison might have met with a serious predicament.

 

[alioop]

Very plausible Could Be and Trooper

 

[possumheart]

Thanks for untangling it Couldbe!

 

[BreakingNews]

Regarding GBC's clumsy talk of Allison going for a walk at night, or in the morning "as she often did", her friends stated that she hated walking.

And it is interesting that he talked about his father being over to look after the girls while he went off driving - no mention of his sister at that stage. So when did she turn up??? Why didn't she turn up with Daddy???

I suspect it would have been OW who made the school lunches. Only lunch GBC would probably have known how to make was between 2 sheets. But then again, it could have been BC Senior who made the lunches - he did seem rather domesticated with the vacuum cleaner.