Amanda Knox Discussion-Friendly Thread

[otto]

I agree that since no "others" have ever been found or charged, Guede’s verdict should be revised.

How and why should Rudy Guede's verdict be revised?
The verdict and sentence were by the book.

Italian criminal trial: Fast-track trial​

"During the preliminary hearing the defendant or his lawyer, if entitled with his power of attorney, may request special proceedings, like the fast track trial (giudizio abbrevaito) or plea bargaining (patteggiamento).

The giudizio abbreviato (fast-track trial, literally abbreviated or short proceeding) consists, basically, of proceedings where the trial phase is absent.
...

Since this is a reduction of the defendant's rights (he basically gives up his right to presenting new evidence and to be tried by a Judge of the Trial), it must be he who asks that the Judge of the Preliminary Hearing hand down a judgement on him.

The defendant is rewarded with a reduction in sentence. The law states that this reduction is one third.

Italian criminal trial

Short introduction of the italian criminal trial

canestrinilex.com

 

[SMK777]

How and why should Rudy Guede's verdict be revised?
The verdict and sentence were by the book.

Italian criminal trial: Fast-track trial​

"During the preliminary hearing the defendant or his lawyer, if entitled with his power of attorney, may request special proceedings, like the fast track trial (giudizio abbrevaito) or plea bargaining (patteggiamento).

The giudizio abbreviato (fast-track trial, literally abbreviated or short proceeding) consists, basically, of proceedings where the trial phase is absent.
...

Since this is a reduction of the defendant's rights (he basically gives up his right to presenting new evidence and to be tried by a Judge of the Trial), it must be he who asks that the Judge of the Preliminary Hearing hand down a judgement on him.

The defendant is rewarded with a reduction in sentence. The law states that this reduction is one third.

Italian criminal trial

Short introduction of the italian criminal trial

canestrinilex.com

Then it stands that he acted with others who should be brought to justice.

 

[otto]

Then it stands that he acted with others who should be brought to justice.

Rudy Guede did not have a trial. He was convicted, sentenced, had his sentence reduced, served his time and is now released for the 2007 murder. Nothing can change those facts anymore. He can't be returned to prison to serve more time.

Meredith Kercher is the victim. She was murdered, stabbed 47 times. A suspect has been convicted. He has not requested an appeal, nor has Meredith's family.

Who wants the verdict changed, and why?

 

[SMK777]

Rudy Guede did not have a trial. He was convicted, sentenced, had his sentence reduced, served his time and is now released for the 2007 murder. Nothing can change those facts anymore. He can't be returned to prison to serve more time.

Meredith Kercher is the victim. She was murdered, stabbed 47 times. A suspect has been convicted. He has not requested an appeal, nor has Meredith's family.

Who wants the verdict changed, and why?

It was @FergusMcDuck who suggested it. I was only agreeing.

At the final acquittal in 2015 Meredith’s mother Arline did ask, "Then who are the others?" It was a reasonable question.

 

[otto]

This is Arline Kercher's statement to the BBC. She doesn't ask about other suspects.

Kercher mother 'shocked' by verdicts

The mother of Meredith Kercher, Arline Kercher has said she was shocked by the verdict acquitting Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito of her daughter's murder in Italy in 2007.

www.bbc.com

A summary of the statement:

Kercher family have a bitter pill to swallow after verdict

After more than seven years of twists, turns and retrials, Meredith Kercher’s relatives must come to terms a verdict they would not have wished for or expected

www.theguardian.com

 

[SMK777]

Correction: It was Meredith’s sister:

Meredith Kercher's sister says she cannot understand why nobody else has been charged with murdering the British student after court rules Rudy Guede did not act alone

Redirect Notice

 

[otto]

Correction: It was Meredith’s sister:

Meredith Kercher's sister says she cannot understand why nobody else has been charged with murdering the British student after court rules Rudy Guede did not act alone

Redirect Notice

I'm looking for a second source, other than DailyMail (which has a reputation for sloppy facts), to confirm that someone said this. So far, no second source, which means maybe she said this and maybe not.

 

[SMK777]

I'm looking for a second source, other than DailyMail (which has a reputation for sloppy facts), to confirm that someone said this. So far, no second source, which means maybe she said this and maybe not.

The Daily Mail may be tabloid-like in its presentation, but I've never seen them misinform on facts or quotes.

After years of being told that Guede acted with others, it's natural that the victim's family would want these parties apprehended.

 

[otto]

The Daily Mail may be tabloid-like in its presentation, but I've never seen them misinform on facts or quotes.

After years of being told that Guede acted with others, it's natural that the victim's family would want these parties apprehended.

Agree to disagree about DailyMail fact-checking.

However, if true that Meredith's sister questioned why there are no other arrests, seems reasonable. It wouldn't be the first time that someone was convicted as 'not acting alone', but no other suspects are arrested.

Similarly, O.J. Simpson was found not guilty, which means that someone else murdered his ex-wife ... but there have been no other arrests. It happens.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

It was @FergusMcDuck who suggested it. I was only agreeing.

At the final acquittal in 2015 Meredith’s mother Arline did ask, "Then who are the others?" It was a reasonable question.

I didn't suggest it, I just said that is what is needed if Rudy's final verdict is to change.

 

[SMK777]

I didn't suggest it, I just said that is what is needed if Rudy's final verdict is to change.

Yes, because he's never been convicted as a lone wolf burglar and killer. He was convicted as one who took part in a murder by acting in concert with other parties.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Yes, because he's never been convicted as a lone wolf burglar and killer. He was convicted as one who took part in a murder by acting in concert with other parties.

And from the perspective of the Italian legal system, one is as good as the other. If anyone wants to change that, they would have to request a revision of the verdict, but so far, no one seems to want it.

 

[Tower]

I wonder if Guede had been immediately apprehended, if it would have been simply "case closed".

There was a case many decades ago where a young Ivy league student was raped and murdered in her off-campus apartment. There was speculation for years that a prominent professor had done it. Decades later DNA proved that it was a random burglar who was in the habit of looking for apartments to rob when no one was at home. He mistook her apartment for empty and she surprised him. He was a 17 year old black drug addict.

I still wonder why Knox and Sollecito were never able to explain their bare footprints tracked in vegetable juice. There are other evidentiary problems. I guess some questions will never be answered.

Yes, if the police had experience in homicide investigation and followed the evidence before building fanciful stories, Guede would have been a suspect early on.

Please cite your source for “vegetable juice” and exactly where those footprints were found? How would vegetable juice relate to a brutal murder?

 

[Tower]

Why would investigators note that the apartment smelled strongly of bleach if it didn't? Bleach has a strong and unmistakable odor.
I agree that the comment about Amanda smelling like sex is stupid and irrelevant, but it was never entered into evidence nor mentioned in court.

Rafaelle’s maid had come the day before police inspected his house. The maid could have cleaned the apartment with bleach. If (and again, a very strong IF) there was an odor of bleach, why would it not be in the house where a murder and an alleged “cleanup” took place, but instead only in a home freshly cleaned by a maid?

 

[SMK777]

Yes, if the police had experience in homicide investigation and followed the evidence before building fanciful stories, Guede would have been a suspect early on.

Please cite your source for “vegetable juice” and exactly where those footprints were found? How would vegetable juice relate to a brutal murder?

I only recall that the defense said luminol might have reacted to their footprints in vegetable juice.

 

[SMK777]

There's still a few questions:
1. Why did Knox's phone ping off a tower away from the apartment when she responded to Lumumba's text saying she would see him later during the week?
2. How did Guede know how to lock Meredith’s door using the key, and why did his footprints lead out the door rather than pointing to her door as he locked it?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

There's still a few questions:
1. Why did Knox's phone ping off a tower away from the apartment when she responded to Lumumba's text saying she would see him later during the week?

It didn't. This was a mistake by the police due to sloppy testing. A phone in Raffaele's apartment could connect to both towers depending on where in the apartment you were. The police only tested in a single spot, while the defense checked multiple locations.

2. How did Guede know how to lock Meredith’s door using the key, and why did his footprints lead out the door rather than pointing to her door as he locked it?

He wanted to lock her door so he used her key. We know he went through her bag because his DNA was on it and her keys and phones missing. And we don't know Rudy's position as he locked the door since only one shoe left bloody prints, so it is impossible to see if he was in an "unnatural" position (whatever that would be) as he closed it. I've argued extensively with some guy on Reddit who maintains that people can't lock doors unless both feet are pointing towards the door, which is of course ridiculous. Human beings aren't robots or video game characters.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I only recall that the defense said luminol might have reacted to their footprints in vegetable juice.

The luminol reacted to something in the hallway footprints and we know it wasn't blood due to testing. The problem is that the police didn't do any more testing, so we don't know what it was. Vegetable juice was simply mentioned as one possible thing, but it could have been something else - just not blood. But Amanda haters have seized on this to mock the strawman that Amanda rubbed juice on her feet and walked in the hallway - as if mocking it enough will make the negative blood tests magically go away.

 

[Tower]

I only recall that the defense said luminol might have reacted to their footprints in vegetable juice.

Thank you for the reply. I have read extensively about the non-blood reaction of the luminol, but I didn’t remember they named vegetable juice as a possible substance. That seems unlikely, but because they didn’t test the substance, we’ll never know.

 

[SMK777]

The case against Knox and Sollecito stands finally as Not Proven.

As for Guede as sole perpetrator:

Such a mechanical action is hardly attributable to the conduct of one person alone. Marasca/Bruno p. 25

The theory of multiple attackers is a judicial fact; "established in Micheli, confirmed in Massei, again in Nencini, and filnally in Marasca."

So we will never have jurisprudence of Guede as a lone wolf burglar, rapist, and murderer.