Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #15

[Susan10]

That's the funny part ... that she thought that she would be released after fingering the black man ... something about that's how it works on CSI. Was that in the book by the cook ??? I can't remember her name, but I did read her book.

It sounds immensely better to falsely claim that police forced Knox to confess, but at no time did she confess.

Knox deliberately attempted to mislead investigators by introducing Patrick's name to the conversation, and then describe, in great detail, where she met him, what they did, what happened when they arrived at the cottage, and how he murdered Meredith while she stood in the kitchen plugging her ears. It's an incredible story, as elaborate as Casey Anthony's story about the babysitter/kidnapper at the park.

I think she was just mad at her boss. Poor man! Ruined his life.

 

[Madeleine74]

Interesting article.

Confirmation bias is not only alive and well, but proliferates on all sides. Once someone has decided that someone is a certain way, they will discard evidence to the contrary and look for things that confirm their bias, even if they have to speculate and theorize in order to do it. They will assign feelings and emotions to the players involved even if they've never met them. They imagine thoughts for the people, intentions, and project all sorts of things onto them.

When and if possible I like to start with forensic evidence first, crime scene stuff, and other evidence (like digital), things that are less about someone's opinion and personal perceptions, and not suppose or imagine anything. I don't imagine evidence being there if it isn't, I go with what there is and what I might be presented if I were on a jury.

I try, as much as possible, to take any feelings about the people involved out of the equation and not use things like my "intuition" or "gut feelings" because that simply is not evidence.

I might believe a person is guilty but the totality of the evidence either supports or doesn't support guilt BARD for me. I might get right up to the line and not be able to cross over into "BARD." In this case I'm not even right up to the line of guilt. That doesn't mean I don't see things that make me suspicious and wonder if there's involvement. It simply means the case hasn't been proven to me BARD. If I were on the AK & RS juries I would have voted "not guilty."

 

[Susan10]

I especially like what Mr. Dershowitz said about Amanda's looks at how they have helped her, plus the fact that she's White. That is just the truth. As I"ve said before, if Amanda was a homeless-looking overweight woman with stringy hair and crooked teeth, no one would care about her. There would be NO outcry of support. There would instead be condemnation, and calls of "pay for what you've done" and "she needs to pay." "we don't want her on our soil." "extradite her, it's only fair." "Meredith deserves justice."

Instead, we have completely opposite sentiment in the United States.

That is so true. Authorities would have just written it off as a case of jealousy and we would have never even heard about it in the US maybe, except for a byline. Doubt some guy would have been making out with her outside the murder house, either. People, for some reason, cannot fathom that young decent looking people can and do murder.

 

[Susan10]

:seeya:

BBM: And what is even more astounding IMO is that Amanda did NOT flush the toilet when she was in there allegedly drying her hair.

Good grief -- who would NOT flush a toilet like that ? :facepalm: Disgusting !

This is one of the many "telling" details in this case that :

It is not always what a person does, sometimes, it is what a person does NOT do.

:twocents:

Ties into why Meredith was so disgusted by Knox's cleaning habits, or lack there of. Knox thought it was natural not to flush the toilet for some reason....except Knox didn't want these turds going down this time....she needed to blame someone else...hence her anxiety when they went below the water line and she had to point it out to the cops that someone's feces were in the toilet.

When was the last time you showered in a small bathroom with someone's stinking feces in the bowl? They probably stank up the whole apartment, even over the blood and bleach.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Loved her "retired FBI" husbands' lame excuse for her abhorrent behavior!

"He said the outburst had come about because she was angry over pictures of Miss Kercher's mutilated body during an earlier hearing. "We have a daughter the same age and someone tried to strangle my wife when she was 20, so it was a reaction to all that, she was just shocked," he said."

Shocked a murder was discussed & photos shown at a murder trial ???? Did she think it was gonna be like Macy's?

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Sorry to quote myself.

Her husband lost all credibility IMO with that ridiculous excuse for his wife's outburst.
If he could fix his face and spurt that nonsense with a straight face, he missed his calling. He shoulda been a defense attorney. IMO


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[Linda7NJ]

Ties into why Meredith was so disgusted by Knox's cleaning habits, or lack there of. Knox thought it was natural not to flush the toilet for some reason....except Knox didn't want these turds going down this time....she needed to blame someone else...hence her anxiety when they went below the water line and she had to point it out to the cops that someone's feces were in the toilet.



When was the last time you showered in a small bathroom with someone's stinking feces in the bowl? They probably stank up the whole apartment, even over the blood and bleach.

IMO she left it because she knew it pointed away from her.


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[TorisMom003]

Ties into why Meredith was so disgusted by Knox's cleaning habits, or lack there of. Knox thought it was natural not to flush the toilet for some reason....except Knox didn't want these turds going down this time....she needed to blame someone else...hence her anxiety when they went below the water line and she had to point it out to the cops that someone's feces were in the toilet.

When was the last time you showered in a small bathroom with someone's stinking feces in the bowl? They probably stank up the whole apartment, even over the blood and bleach.

Again more misinformation. The unflushed toilet was not in the small bathroom that Meredith and Amanda shared, the one that Amanda took a shower in. There was also no smell of bleach in the cottage that the girls lived in. The smell of bleach was in RS's apartment. Not sure where the thought is coming from that the unflushed toilet had gone down below the water line so that someone would have to point it out to anyone that there was feces in the bowl.

 

[Susan10]

In the article I posted earlier today, Dershowitz says there's also evidence of innocence and also that there was not enough evidence to prove that she did this beyond a reasonable doubt.

She is being tried under Italian law, where the crime occurred, not under US law.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Again more misinformation. The unflushed toilet was not in the small bathroom that Meredith and Amanda shared, the one that Amanda took a shower in. There was also no smell of bleach in the cottage that the girls lived in. The smell of bleach was in RS's apartment. Not sure where the thought is coming from that the unflushed toilet had gone down below the water line so that someone would have to point it out to anyone that there was feces in the bowl.

Amanda claims she blew dried her hair in that little bathroom. The one with the poop in the toilet. She saw it, didn't flush it and was the one who directed law enforcement to it.




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[Susan10]

I think that it is very clear that there has been a terrible miscarriage of justice, especially in the case of RS.

The only evidence against RS at all is the bra clasp. There is nothing else whatsoever.

But what about the bra clasp? Supposedly it has DNA from MK (as you would expect) and DNA from RS. The problem is that there are additional DNA peaks on the sample as well, so where did these come from? The prosecution have attempted to explain it away as "stutter" or noise, but it is clearly DNA from someone else. Going on the assumption that MK was in the habit of wearing clean underwear, the only DNA that should have been present if the prosecution's theory is correct would be that from MK and RS. The additional DNA must therefore have been introduced AFTER the murder, but from where? It is obviously contamination and I bet that if they had done their controls properly and tested the investigators as well they would have found who had mishandled the sample.

Remember that this particular evidence was collected about 6 weeks after the murder, and that it was no longer in the same place it had originally been in, which means that it's providence was compromised.

I think it is very strange that they find no evidence at all that RS was there, then they go back 6 weeks later, and suddenly they find something that supports their original theory.

Then later on, this piece of evidence is mysteriously inappropriately stored so that it is destroyed and can no longer be subject to further testing.

IMO what happened is that the sample became contaminated as a result of sloppy work. Perhaps by accident, perhaps by intention. In either event the extra DNA on the sample was effectively the smoking gun that would prove it. Someone in their DNA lab must surely have realized this, and certainly further testing on the sample would have resolved that question. But then all of a sudden the sample is "destroyed".

There is no question to me that this particular piece of evidence is highly compromised and should have been dismissed after it was destroyed as a result. It is mind boggling that an objective judge would even consider it due to the very real possibility of tampering.

IMO there is a pattern for this behaviour, where evidence that might contradict the investigators version mysteriously is no longer available for analysis.

Another example of this is the hard drive, which was destroyed while in LE custody. The contents of the drive could have been used by RS's defence. How is it even possible for this to happen other than extreme incompetence or deliberate act?

Then the initial interrogations, which should have been recorded and should have been conducted with legal representation, but were not. And all that is swept under the rug as if it is unimportant. But it is important, since the accused claimed they were subject to abuse in this time. If LE had been operating according to the law, there would have been records to show what actually happened. But there were not, and again there were not specifically due to LE actions.

These are just some of the many examples of malpractice in this case. The judicial system from the investigators through to the prosecutors through to the judges are all part of the same corrupt system, where they look after their own. There are some exceptions of course, some of the police officers questioned the evidence for example, but they were over-ruled. Hellman questioned most of the evidence and found it severely wanting, but he too was over-ruled, with the supreme court directing the next trial to put greater weight on subjective evidence rather than objective evidence.

No doubt the next supreme court session will do the same, unless there are new judges on it who prefer the objective review rather than the subjective, in which case the trials start all over again.

It is just a shameful travesty of justice IMO, and I really do not know how these people can go to sleep at night given what they are putting this couple through, and all for pride in their corrupt system?

If they want to claim that AK and RS did it, well then prove it beyond reasonable doubt. If they can't do that, then AK and RS should be released. Sending a young couple to prison for half their life simple so that you don't have to admit to the flaws in their justice system is obscene.

The bra clasp had Knox's DNA on it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Again more misinformation. The unflushed toilet was not in the small bathroom that Meredith and Amanda shared, the one that Amanda took a shower in. There was also no smell of bleach in the cottage that the girls lived in. The smell of bleach was in RS's apartment. Not sure where the thought is coming from that the unflushed toilet had gone down below the water line so that someone would have to point it out to anyone that there was feces in the bowl.

You're correct about the smell of bleach.
Bleach that the cleaning lady said was never there ...changed her story later and claimed it was there.

Wasn't Amanda witnessed buying bleach early that morning when she claims to have been sleeping? Wasn't there a receipt found?

So why exactly did RS's place reek of bleach???? Who was using it? The housekeeper said ( even after changing her story) she didn't use it only had seen it.

Why two bottles of bleach?




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[Linda7NJ]

The bra clasp had Knox's DNA on it.

No, it had RS's on it.


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[otto]

I had been following this case. However the last time I truly paid close attention was when she was released. Since it has been long enough for the details to fade I want to go and start from the beginning re-looking at it.

Where would you all recommend I start? A particular book that covers the case very well? (NOT written by one of the players obvi. Something rooted in facts. I'd actually prefer it to be written by someone who isn't American, Italian OR British... but that may be asking a lot.)

(Also does anyone else notice how Amanda's new look makes her look just like RS?)

A good place to start is with the motivation report, which is the Judge's summary of the trial. It describes each defense argument about each piece of evidence, and then explains the reasoning used to make a decision about the evidence.

The appeal re-litigated some of the points, but the conviction was upheld. A summary of this appeal will be released in the next 90 days.

http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...ttachments/MasseiReportEnglishTranslation.pdf

 

[TorisMom003]

You're correct about the smell of bleach.
Bleach that the cleaning lady said was never there ...changed her story later and claimed it was there.

Wasn't Amanda witnessed buying bleach early that morning when she claims to have been sleeping? Wasn't there a receipt found?

So why exactly did RS's place reek of bleach???? Who was using it? The housekeeper said ( even after changing her story) she didn't use it only had seen it.

Why two bottles of bleach?




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Amanda was not witnessed buying bleach that morning. There was no receipt found for bleach.

Both Amanda and RS said that a pipe under the kitchen sink had come loose and water went all over the floor. A mop was used to clean it up. We don't know if bleach was used as well or not.

One bottle of bleach was unused, the other was missing little from it. No clue as to why there was two bottles. Perhaps that is what RS usually does, buys two at a time.

 

[Susan10]

right now on Crime of the Century.......this case on TV....this minute!

 

[TorisMom003]

Amanda claims she blew dried her hair in that little bathroom. The one with the poop in the toilet. She saw it, didn't flush it and was the one who directed law enforcement to it.




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The toilet for that bathroom is in another room from the sink and mirror where the blowdryer is kept.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

right now on Crime of the Century.......this case on TV....this minute!

What network channel?


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[TorisMom003]

CNN had the show about the case.

 

[Linda7NJ]

CNN had the show about the case.

I caught the tail end.




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[Linda7NJ]

CNN had the show about the case.

I don't care for Ann bremner, and the last few minutes that I did see...was incredibly biased. "Amanda's nightmare"?
I think of Meredith's family and their nightmare ...


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