Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #16

[SMK]

On the Nencini affair:

Knox and Sollecito: justice revisited in prime time
A soundbite in the court of public opinion is so much easier than wading through all that legal evidence

IS THE WORLD turned upside down in the continuing bizarre saga of the Amanda Knox case? It feels like it.


The morning after the guilty verdict was upheld in Florence last week, I asked whether some media representatives were complicit in a public relations-orchestrated sham unfolding before us in what felt like a twisted reality show (though not for Meredith Kercher's family, for whom it is simply reality. Period.)

Now, just a few days later, the scenario is this: an American and an Italian are convicted of murder, and that conviction is upheld on appeal. The next morning, the judge responsible gives an informal interview, conducted in the court house corridors, to a few newspaper reporters. Hours after their articles hit the newsstands, lawyers for one of those convicted (Raffaele Sollecito) pounce on the judge for speaking out “inappropriately” and call for disciplinary action.




http://www.theweek.co.uk/europe/ama...to-justice-revisited-prime-time#ixzz2sSYfMfTg

 

[Hope4More]

The evidence clearly shows that Meredith died shortly after arriving home. She was attacked while still wearing her jacket. The pizza she had eaten at 6:30 had not yet started to pass from her stomach, indicating she died before 9:30. Meredith died while the young lovers were still fiddling with video files on Raffaelle's computer.

The evidence does not clearly establish that early a TOD. A very generous interpretation would be that the TOD is contested. IMO, there is ample reason to agree with all but the appeal court that TOD was 11-11:30.

 

[Footwarrior]

remember i posted a whole page full of photos of hickeys that looked like the mark on amanda's neck, and even aa, IIRC, was surprised as the similarity??

On another forum, someone posted the photo used to illustrate the Hickey article on Wikipedia and said it was a photo of Amanda's neck. Those who believed Amanda guilty declared it wasn't a hickey.

 

[minazoe]

Couple weird ideas I speculated I about this case over the years...

That Amanda left RS to go get drugs clothes and money from her place...Meredith's money...I think she may have hooked up with RG and brought him back to the house...I think she and RG started the staging and then RG split the scene...I think she then went and got RS and brought him to her place...in a grand manipulation...

Like a cat brings a bird to you...

She brought him in the house were they examined the body, walked around , touched things...she knew what she was doing...it was all for her benefit...

Or

She left RS with Meredith to go find RG for drugs, and didn't want to freak out RG by bringing some strange dude...when she came back RS was mid-make out with MK...where he was touching her bra...he blames MK for coming on to him and a wild scene ensues...

I feel like there is a big guilt trip on RS and he feels responsible somehow.

Perhaps RS was forcing MK...

Just a couple of thoughts.. MOO

 

[aa9511]

Massei report

I think it is quite standard for any defense, when their client has forensic evidence against them, to try to place reasonable doubt. That's their job.

I look again to the Jodi Arias case - in that case, there was a palm print of hers found on a wall. The defense never challenged this palm print. Why? Because Jodi's defense was self-defense. They didn't need to challenge it, because she never disputed that it was hers (after her trial strategy of self-defense had been set). She admitted to being there and admitted to killing Travis.

Now let's say that camera had never been found which had pictures which proved she was there with Travis literally milli-seconds before he was killed. Let's say she then plead not-guilty. Then the defense would have made a big whoop-la over that palm print - how it was collected, how it was tested, dug into the investigators, dug into the crime scene technicians, dug into the lab technicians, dug into the machines, etc., etc.. They would have said, well Jodi used to come to Travis' house all the time, so it must have been left from one of those times. They would have challenged if it was Jodi's DNA. They would have said, the lab people got it all wrong. They would have said, the lab was testing other things from the house, and since Jodi used to be at Travis' place all the time - well, that means that of course Jodi's DNA would be "everywhere," so of course there would be her DNA on these other items from the house, so therefore of course the sample must have gotten contaminated because Jodi's DNA was all over that crime lab. Or maybe a technician touched something, got Jodi's DNA on his glove, and then accidentally grazed the palm print, thus transferring her DNA to the palm priint.

But as it is, we heard nothing of the palm print except that it matched with Jodi's.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

And what the heck has she been doing with herself since she's been back? How many classes has she taken? She still doesn't have a degree??? She wasn't working? What did she do all day?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:seeya:


BBM: She's been "Waiting to Be Heard" ... :floorlaugh:


:seeya: Morning Y'All !

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I've been searching but can't find the answer. Does anyone know if Amanda's other roommates believe she's guilty or innocent?

:twocents: Laura and Filomina are very professional, classy women, and have chosen to take the "high road" and stay out of the circus ... just like the Kercher Family :rose:


:moo:

 

[Footwarrior]

The evidence does not clearly establish that early a TOD. A very generous interpretation would be that the TOD is contested. IMO, there is ample reason to agree with all but the appeal court that TOD was 11-11:30.

That TOD estimate was based on the body temperature of the victim taken over 24 hours after she died. Such an estimate could be off by 6 to 8 hours in either direction.

In a normal person, a meal starts to pass from the stomach in three hours or less. This indicates a TOD before 9:30, still consistent with the estimate based on body temperature. The early TOD also gets around other problems with the prosecution theory. It explains why Meredith did not try to call her mother again after the connection at 8:56 failed. It explains why she was still wearing her jacket when she was attacked. It explains why she didn't take her wet clothes out of the washing machine. It explains why she hadn't opened the book she borrowed to study that night.

The prosecution explained the failed calls around 10 pm as Meredith playing with the buttons on her phone. Does that make sense for someone Meredith's age?

The early TOD also explains the connection via a different cell tower at 10:13 pm. Rudy is heading home, but taking a path outside the city walls. He doesn't want to be seen leaving the area of the cottage at that time.

The witnesses in the car that broke down directly across the street from the cottage reported it as dark and quiet from about 10:30 to 11:15. Their friends parked in the cottage driveway confirmed that, as did the tow truck driver. That makes sense if Meredith is already dead, we don't have to explain why she is sitting in the dark.

 

[Amber29]

[/B]

bbm

Yes, Otto, exactly! You have Nancy Grace down to the letter!! :floorlaugh:

That is exactly what she would say. She would see what the evidence shows, and she would see right through Amanda.

It's true Nancy is beholden to CNN, but she also is probably worried about her own viewership and her own ratings. That's why she is conspicuously silent on this case.

If Juan Martinez had done a cross on Amanda, there would be no doubt left in anyone's mind what the truth of Amanda is. She would have been caught in so many lies. Too bad.

JMO.

I have actually heard Nancy Grace talk about Amanda Knox, although not recently. She does think she's guilty and said things very similar to what Otto said lol. Anyways I agree on your points of why she isn't covering it now.

 

[aa9511]

for you, i looked

as expected, imo, the top edge of the knife does not line up.

and, how do you explain the largest stain which has a distinctive three sided edge to it? that looks like the leading edge of the handle to me...

(click on the photo and it'll open up to a larger version where this is easily seen)

i believe it was nina burleigh who reported mignini changed his theory based on the stain: http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/news/why-amanda-knox-is-completely-innocent-57985

but yes, this site agrees with your two knives theory: http://www.sciencespheres.com/2010/04/inevitable-unexpected-and-theory-of.html


i do have to agree with part of your critical analyis of SK's article... he was wrong to state that RG's dna was found in sperm... but remember that until SMK posted that there was no rape, we all thought there was? is it not possible that SK made a similar assumption that male dna in MK's vagina = sperm?

Thanks

Yes, I see what you're saying about that kind of square-ish looking spot of blood. I don't know, honestly. It does look different than the other spots of blood. I just don't know about the imprint, I think that it's very difficult to tell either way b/c the imprint is just so vague. It doesn't really tell us much, IMO. But I do see what you're saying about that spot of blood.

It says "Burleigh reports," but doesn't quote what she says, and I have no idea how Burleigh came to that conclusion b/c there is not more information about it in the article, other than "Burleigh reports."

Yes, he probably did make wrong assumption. You're right. But still, even if wrong assumption, the statement is still false. But I didn't even consider that to be a big or major reason for the flaws in the paper regarding her case - mostly, it was that he obviously went into it believing that Amanda and RS were "wrongfully convicted," meaning they are innocent. IMO, therefore he dismisses all the DNA evidence, he dismisses all the witnesses, and he dismisses their statements and their own words, not only in interrogations, but also apparently outside of interrogaitons, such as her e-mail home, her comments about the murder heard by witnesses, etc.. IIRC he doesn't specifically address these (outside of interrogations), but if he thinks they are innocent, then obviously he has discounted those issues as not having any importance to the case. Because he accepted at face value the broken window and the vision that the staging had provided - that Rudy broke into the house and sexually assaulted and murdered Meredith. Therefore, if his premise is wrong or even shaky, then what use is it to use that shaky premise to draw conclusions from regarding false confessions? Because then your conclusions are going to be at best, shaky, and at worst, wrong.

JMO.

 

[ShadyLady]

It is a very accurate analysis of the knife blood stain on the sheet. There's little doubt that the knife does line up if it is put in the correct location on the blood stain.

It's easy to put the knife in the wrong location and claim that it doesn't fit. That is no pocket knife.

Didn't RS collect knives, and had weird sexual things on computer....and did Knox write her rape short stories before going to Italy?

Seems they were soul mates. imo

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Here's my :twocents: regarding Nancy Grace's LACK of coverage on this case ... fwiw ... lol:

IMO, the networks -- via the PR machine -- :silenced: her.

Nancy hardly ever "bites her tongue" ... she "speaks her mind" ... is very direct, to the point of being "obnoxious" at times.

SPECULATION ONLY: JMO, but I think she came to an "agreement" so to speak with HLN :

My guess : she was not going to "tow the FOA line" because she believes Knox and Raf are guilty...

So in turn, the network told her okay, but YOU, Nancy, cannot discuss this case at all on your show ...

KWIM ?

So she says nothing ... which is a tragedy because whether you like her or not, she does have the biggest audience at HLN -- and -- she can be very influential, IYKWIM?

JMO and :moo:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Didn't RS collect knives, and had weird sexual things on computer....and did Knox write her rape short stories before going to Italy?

Seems they were soul mates. imo

:seeya: Yes, RC collected knives ... and he even brought one into the police station ...

Now seriously, WHO would do something foolish like bring a "knife" into a police station ?

:twocents:

 

[aa9511]

Random post: I clicked on the science sphere link in your signature. Mark Waterbury outlines how a simple straightforward explanation of the evidence seems to have been replaced by a complicated series of speculated motives and sequence of events. I was amused by his analogy using Rube Goldberg's cartoon.

link

That is funny, but I don't think that Rudy as lone-wolf is an explanation which explains the evidence found in the cottage. JMO. It is a good theory, it is very believable in theory. I will admit that and I have never denied that, in fact I mention it quite often. That Rudy as burglar who raped and murdered is more believable than accepting that a prank happened, something went wrong, staging the window, staging the body, cleaning up footprints, cleaning up doors, locking doors, staging the scene, etc., etc.. I will be the first to admit this, wholeheartedly.

But I just do not think that Rudy as lone-wolf explains the evidence found in the cottage.

 

[aa9511]

Over the past few days I've read for the first time translations of the original evidence, trial and appeal materials, etc. Until now haven't had an opinion about her guilt or innocence.

After reading hundreds and hundreds of pages of original material, for me it seems pretty clear cut that Knox is guilty. One of the most compelling pieces of evidence , IMO, were Guede's bloody footprints heading straight out the door. He killed and fled.

Who then, other than Knox (with or without her creepy boyfriend) could possibly have tried to clean up the scene?

A big thing for me is the fact that both of their cell phones turned off, "coincidentally", on the evening of the murder.

 

[ShadyLady]

Over the past few days I've read for the first time translations of the original evidence, trial and appeal materials, etc. Until now haven't had an opinion about her guilt or innocence.

After reading hundreds and hundreds of pages of original material, for me it seems pretty clear cut that Knox is guilty. One of the most compelling pieces of evidence , IMO, were Guede's bloody footprints heading straight out the door. He killed and fled.

Who then, other than Knox (with or without her creepy boyfriend) could possibly have tried to clean up the scene?

Very good point I have not thought of. But, for some various reasons I always thought Knox did clean up with or without RS.

Why lie about the shower. The bleach and mop/bucket. Poop issue. Stupid statement about scooting on bathrug because no towels, her lamp, her short stories, phone calls to mother, her past MO for setting up fake break-in, her dislike of Meredith, and her lack of empathy later. Just off the top of my head. :jail:

 

[aa9511]

On the Nencini affair:

Knox and Sollecito: justice revisited in prime time
A soundbite in the court of public opinion is so much easier than wading through all that legal evidence

IS THE WORLD turned upside down in the continuing bizarre saga of the Amanda Knox case? It feels like it.


The morning after the guilty verdict was upheld in Florence last week, I asked whether some media representatives were complicit in a public relations-orchestrated sham unfolding before us in what felt like a twisted reality show (though not for Meredith Kercher's family, for whom it is simply reality. Period.)

Now, just a few days later, the scenario is this: an American and an Italian are convicted of murder, and that conviction is upheld on appeal. The next morning, the judge responsible gives an informal interview, conducted in the court house corridors, to a few newspaper reporters. Hours after their articles hit the newsstands, lawyers for one of those convicted (Raffaele Sollecito) pounce on the judge for speaking out “inappropriately” and call for disciplinary action.




http://www.theweek.co.uk/europe/ama...to-justice-revisited-prime-time#ixzz2sSYfMfTg

Thanks for link. Agree with all of it.

As far as Judge Nencini, he should have known better. He should have just simply stated, "no comment." "I cannot comment at this time." :banghead:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

A big thing for me is the fact that both of their cell phones turned off, "coincidentally", on the evening of the murder.

Good point ...

:twocents: I don't put a lot of stock in "coincidences" ... and it was not a coincidence that Knox and Raf BOTH turned their cell phones off that evening ...

 

[SMK]

Thanks for link. Agree with all of it.

As far as Judge Nencini, he should have known better. He should have just simply stated, "no comment." "I cannot comment at this time." :banghead:

I know. 30 years on the bench and he puts the verdict in jeopardy. :furious:

 

[aa9511]

Couple weird ideas I speculated I about this case over the years...

That Amanda left RS to go get drugs clothes and money from her place...Meredith's money...I think she may have hooked up with RG and brought him back to the house...I think she and RG started the staging and then RG split the scene...I think she then went and got RS and brought him to her place...in a grand manipulation...

Like a cat brings a bird to you...

She brought him in the house were they examined the body, walked around , touched things...she knew what she was doing...it was all for her benefit...

Or

She left RS with Meredith to go find RG for drugs, and didn't want to freak out RG by bringing some strange dude...when she came back RS was mid-make out with MK...where he was touching her bra...he blames MK for coming on to him and a wild scene ensues...

I feel like there is a big guilt trip on RS and he feels responsible somehow.

Perhaps RS was forcing MK...

Just a couple of thoughts.. MOO

That's very interesting. But IMO RS and Amanda were together because they both turned their cell phones off at the same time. In the above scenarios, they wouldn't need to coordinate their cell phones.