Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[otto]

I hope this is dropped in the end. Amanda should be allowed to get on with her life.

BBM

I can't think of a single convicted murderer that doesn't feel the same way.

Meredith should have been allowed to have a life.

 

[Malkmus]

BBM

On what is that based? Are there statistics showing which percentage of convicted murders in Italy are not in jail given a conviction, defense appeal, successful prosecution argument for annulment of appeal, and pending re-appeal?

Given the completely different legal systems, US standards cannot be applied to this case.

I'm saying my opinion is that it's odd for guilty people to roam free on a murder charge. You're welcome to look up statistics, either way I think it's odd.

Why, again, do you bring up the US in comparison? Are people guilty of murder allowed to walk the streets where you're from?

 

[otto]

I'm saying my opinion is that it's odd for guilty people to roam free on a murder charge. You're welcome to look up statistics, either way I think it's odd.

Why, again, do you bring up the US in comparison? Are people guilty of murder allowed to walk the streets where you're from?

I think that the courts are making decisions no different than they normally do. I don't think that what is happening with this Italian court case is odd.

 

[SMK]

I asked on the JREF forums about what exactly is the current status of Knox and Sollecito:

Their understanding is that they have exactly the same standing as they had on November 6, 2007.

They stand accused of murder pending the final ruling of Italy's supreme court. The difference after Hellmann is that he obliterated the prosecution's case so they had insufficient evidence to hold them and Hellman ruled that they should be set free.

"Defendants in Italy are permitted to remain free until the final ruling unless the prosecution can show cause why they should be held. One of the points in Mignini's request to hold Amanda was that she might flee to America. Amanda is now in America so that point is moot. "

"They've never been "convicted murderers" in the Italian sense, it probably is a semantics thing - but important in Italian law - they now stand convicted by a 1st instance court waiting on a mandatory appeal and the process to play out to a final signing off by the SC. They are not convicted murderers. They remain charged."


They believe the Italians would have to be insane to subject themselves to the scrutiny of an extradition hearing.

 

[sherlockh]

I asked on the JREF forums about what exactly is the current status of Knox and Sollecito:

Their understanding is that they have exactly the same standing as they had on November 6, 2007.

They stand accused of murder pending the final ruling of Italy's supreme court. The difference after Hellmann is that he obliterated the prosecution's case so they had insufficient evidence to hold them and Hellman ruled that they should be set free.

"Defendants in Italy are permitted to remain free until the final ruling unless the prosecution can show cause why they should be held. One of the points in Mignini's request to hold Amanda was that she might flee to America. Amanda is now in America so that point is moot. "

"They've never been "convicted murderers" in the Italian sense, it probably is a semantics thing - but important in Italian law - they now stand convicted by a 1st instance court waiting on a mandatory appeal and the process to play out to a final signing off by the SC. They are not convicted murderers. They remain charged."

They believe the Italians would have to be insane to subject themselves to the scrutiny of an extradition hearing.

They are provisionally guilty. Just like they were provisionally acquitted before but strangely I didn't see any questions at that stage. In Italy there is only one trial which is only finished when the SC signs off, so there never will be any question of double jeopardy here. There is no *new trial ordered*. This is still the same trial. The stage where she was acquitted was illegal and cancelled by Italy's highest court. If the US doesn't agree with the Italian system then they wouldn't have an extradition treaty with Italy in the first place. Of course Italy will request the extradition of a murderer they just convicted.

 

[SMK]

They are provisionally guilty. Just like they were provisionally acquitted before but strangely I didn't see any questions at that stage. In Italy there is only one trial which is only finished when the SC signs off, so there never will be any question of double jeopardy here. There is no *new trial ordered*. This is still the same trial. The stage where she was acquitted was illegal and cancelled by Italy's highest court. If the US doesn't agree with the Italian system then they wouldn't have an extradition treaty with Italy in the first place. Of course Italy will request the extradition of a murderer they just convicted.

I do disagree with JREF on that last point:

I would expect them to extradite if there is a conviction, of course. But when?
At the end of this process, or after the final appeal? (assuming they are not acquitted once more).

 

[darcedarce]

Amanda and Rafaelle are completely innocent of this murder. You disagree, that's cool. I have more than done my homework on this case and am so thankful that they were justly set free.

 

[darcedarce]

BBM

I can't think of a single convicted murderer that doesn't feel the same way.

Meredith should have been allowed to have a life.

Did I claim Meredith shouldn't have been allowed to have a life? Typical bully tactic. Let the facts stand for themselves.

 

[sherlockh]

I do disagree with JREF on that last point:

I would expect them to extradite if there is a conviction, of course. But when?
At the end of this process, or after the final appeal? (assuming they are not acquitted once more).

After the final appeal which will probably take at least another year, and probably 2. IMO there is a chance that AK will attend the trial anyway. It wouldn't look very good if she doesn't show up and her ex-bf is there all by himself.

 

[sherlockh]

You mentioned those are the reasons why they were convicted, and said it was their dishonesty towards that evidence. You are correct in that is why they were convicted, but that same evidence is also why they were acquitted in the appeal.

Don't know why you keep bringing up the juice argument. The defense expert argued it was bleach residue from the shower.

We have gone over this before. It can't be bleach because not only would that leave footprints all over the place, it also stops reacting with Luminol after just a few days. The Luminol tests were done after 6 weeks! This leaves extremely unlikely alternative substances like fruit juice that could cause a reaction with Luminol.

Besides, how unlucky must Knox have been to have put fruit juice on her feet and to leave her footprints right outside her roommates door that so happened to have been murdered with blood all over the place? Doesn't really make any sense. It is far more probable that it was blood just like the expert claimed.

I am rather confident that the next appeal court will listen to the experts and not to desperate defense lawyers claiming the impossible. That science rules out bleach and the appeal court still accepted the defense argument just goes to show how incompetent the previous appeal judge was.

Examination of bleach drying time suggested that any interfering effect becomes negligible after 8 h.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bio.865/abstract

If time allows, an alternative method for reducing interference from hypochlorite bleach is to wait several days until the bloodstains have dried thoroughly, by which time the hypochlorite will have decomposed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12570200

 

[SMK]

After the final appeal which will probably take at least another year, and probably 2. IMO there is a chance that AK will attend the trial anyway. It wouldn't look very good if she doesn't show up and her ex-bf is there all by himself.

I just cannot see her stepping foot in Italy when things are so dangerous for her now. Her one advantage is being at a distance.

So a ruling within one year , and then another year appealing that ruling? That would be late 2015 or possibly even going into 2016, the way things are delayed.

If acquitted, then it will have been just more time spent in turmoil. If the original conviction is at last approved, then it will be an extradition/going to prison problem.

What may be ironic is that the acquittal will stand in the end.
Something wrong with a process that drags on this long.

I must admit I no longer understand about the innocence or guilt. I just don't know anymore where the truth is. I never was good at understanding the evidentiary data and viewed the whole thing broadly and psychologically. The only way Knox and Sollecito deserve long prison time is if they actually killed MK, and were not just on the periphery of Guede's action. If they are innocent, which may still be the case, then I feel very sorry for them. If not, then the acquittals were just one more drag in the process. This case really burns one out.

 

[MsJ]

Post deleted - comment clarified later in the thread.

 

[SMK]

So Amanda will still be interviewed by Diane Sawyer on April 30. But now the whole tone of things has changed, because Hellmann was not upheld. Great Britain has already canceled the release of Knox's book.

 

[Gecko100]

Is everyone aware of what happened to Patrick Lumumba? He lost his livelihood went
bankrupt and eventually moved to Poland. Not a very fair scenario when he did absolutely nothing wrong to deserve it. It must have been just horrific for that poor family.

 

[Malkmus]

Is everyone aware of what happened to Patrick Lumumba? He lost his livelihood went
bankrupt and eventually moved to Poland. Not a very fair scenario when he did absolutely nothing wrong to deserve it. It must have been just horrific for that poor family.

Yes, many lives were destroyed by this mess.
I wonder why the police decided to keep his bar closed for months on end, even after he was cleared, and why the only witness they decided to bring in front of a judge was the one who could testify that Patrick's bar was indeed closed that night.

 

[otto]

Carla Bruni - Quelqu'un m'a dit - YouTube

 

[otto]

Flip Side

The Lumineers - Ho Hey (Official Video) - YouTube

 

[otto]

Men Without Hats - Pop Goes the World - YouTube

 

[SMK]

Why did you post those, Otto?:waitasec:

 

[Malkmus]

A mystery within a mystery.