Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[Katody]

The prosecution said that many calls made or received by Kercher's phone used this tower near Lana's garden.

I can't find anything like this in Galati. Does Crini say this?

 

[Amber29]

The prosecution said that many calls made or received by Kercher's phone used this tower near Lana's garden.

Yes the 2213 connection was picked up not by the tower covering Lanas garden but another tower that Massei noted often picked up Meredith's phone.

 

[Katody]

I suppose I could also ask you the question of what would it take for you to change your POV. You find it implausible that RG would have left his DNA in the bathroom by washing in there. I would have to ask you what you think AK was doing that left her DNA there if it wasn't from washing.

I'd change my mind if a plausible explanation was provided for the disparity between the numerous traces of Guede and absolute lack of Amanda's in the murder room.

Amanda was using the bathroom daily for more than a month.:facepalm:

 

[redheadedgal]

pg 37 of the presentation harmony linked says both tamponi and tampone...

is it a spelling mistake or are there two different meanings?

bumping my post just in case someone can answer... thanks.

I think he cut it off because it wasn't tearing off, hence the bent clasp. I think he and Amanda ran into RG and invited him over to get high. And I think the murder occurred between 10pm and 11pm. JMO

MK's cell dialed her mom in the UK @ 8:56pm and the call was quickly disconnected, correct? if MK was okay while making the call, wouldn't she have called her mom right back? (that's what i do with a disconnected call). or, maybe she called her mom for help when she realized something was wrong?

^^ this is why i think she was killed much earlier than 10pm and why i believe RG surprised her (or he was surprised by her) and events escalated from there.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/03/22/report-murdered-british-coed-last-call-home-cut-off/


thank you for your clarification about "possible".

 

[Amber29]

I was wrong about the contents of the brown faux leather bag. Even if it was empty Guede should have been charged with the theft because it's pretty obvious he went through her bag looking for any cash after he'd killed her because her blood is also on the bag.

Murder in Italy p73

A beige shoulder bag, apparently bloodstained, containing an iPod, a plastic make up bag, a black pencil, a pen, red lipstick, mascara, and a crumpled white handkerchief.

Thanks.

Yes seems very clear which bag MK was carrying atm.

Truly leaves me wondering about the empty purse on her bed.

 

[Myvice]

I'd change my mind if a plausible explanation was provided for the disparity between the numerous traces of Guede and absolute lack of Amanda's in the murder room.

Amanda was using the bathroom daily for more than a month.:facepalm:

I thought Amanda had been staying primarily at RS's house.

RG must have been very lucky that night not to leave any DNA while rubbing his hands together to remove the blood. Especially after leaving so much in the bedroom.

 

[Katody]

Yes the 2213 connection was picked up not by the tower covering Lanas garden but another tower that Massei noted often picked up Meredith's phone.

Could you please provide a quote?

TBH I can't estimate how often this cell picked up Meredith's phone because there is only single one such occurrence mentioned in Massei - the 22:13 connection.

I must have missed something.

 

[Katody]

I thought Amanda had been staying primarily at RS's house.

Well, what can I say. You thought wrong. Read the case file

RG must have been very lucky that night not to leave any DNA while rubbing his hands together to remove the blood. Especially after leaving so much in the bedroom.

I don't think washing hands under running water is in any way equivalent to what happened in the murder room.

There was no murder, no struggle, no ripping of clothes in the bathroom.

 

[SMK]

I can't find anything like this in Galati. Does Crini say this?

As Amber noted, this was contained in Massei, and then repeated by the Supreme Court of Cassation as per this new appeal trial in Florence, 2013.p 96 Translation: Supreme Court of Cassation of Italy Sentencing Report


"the objective fact that only after midnight did the victim's telephones stop connecting to the cell tower of via della Pergola and connect instead with the one on via Sperandio, where they were eventually found; this meant that only after midnight were they removed by unknown hands from the flat in via della Pergola."

ETA: That's the wrong quote, hang on, looking for the one where they say surely meredith could not be expected to walk to lana's garden when she placed many calls----have company here, in a tizzy, cannot do 10 things at once

 

[redheadedgal]

Another thing which I now find the American media was most definitely misleading on :

When in this current process of the appellate trial in Florence, the knife was retested and AK's dna was found on it (but not the victim's ) they claimed this as a victory for the defense--- I have no argument with that.

But they also claimed that the Supreme Court of Cassation had declared that this knife test was going to be the decisive and determining factor.

This is simply not true: On the contrary, the SCC says on pp 98-99 that the remanded Judge (Nincini) will have the task of evaluating everything (forensics, circumstantial, testimony, witnesses, statements, calumnia) and then and only then will such an evaluation - which integrates everything - show that the two defendants were at the crime scene, and rule out other scenarios.

wow!

how can anyone read this directive of the SCC and not take issue with it? shouldn't a court, especially the supreme court, be neutral?

The small bathroom was tested extensively with no trace of RG despite the fact that some think he was in there scrubbing blood off his skin.

To me, you can't have it both ways...no DNA shows that RS and AK were not in the bedroom yet no DNA from RG shows that he was in the small bathroom.

as you just recently used one of his posts to back up your assertion about the tampon and dna, chris_halkides posted an insightful and informative post explaining this too a while back...

I thought Amanda had been staying primarily at RS's house.

at night. but she'd lived there for over a month and she came home every morning to shower the last week. either FR or LM testified to this.

 

[Harmony 2]

Thanks.

Yes seems very clear which bag MK was carrying atm.

Truly leaves me wondering about the empty purse on her bed.

:waitasec:

results on beige bag:

page 46

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/testimonianza2.pdf

Borsa in tessuto di colore beige=Fabric bag beige=VITTIMA:A/B/C= victim

On page 40 what could this be?


Sostanza gommosa di colore bianco=White gummy substance=sostanza salivare neg.=salivary substance neg.=NEGATIVO

 

[Myvice]

Well, what can I say. You thought wrong. Read the case file



I don't think washing hands under running water is in any way equivalent to what happened in the murder room.

There was no murder, no struggle, no ripping of clothes in the bathroom.

Well it was in my reading that I found this information. Here's a link.

Murder of Meredith Kercher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Via della Pergola 7. It states that after meeting RS, AK was coming home every other day to change clothes.

Inspite of there being no struggle etc in the bathroom, I find it odd that there would be none of Guedes DNA in there considering AK's DNA was found in the exact spot MK's blood was found.

There was no struggle etc in other parts of the house yet it is expected that DNA would be present.

 

[Myvice]

wow!

how can anyone read this directive of the SCC and not take issue with it? shouldn't a court, especially the supreme court, be neutral?




as you just recently used one of his posts to back up your assertion about the tampon and dna, chris_halkides posted an insightful and informative post explaining this too a while back...




at night. but she'd lived there for over a month and she came home every morning to shower the last week. either FR or LM testified to this.

Could you please show me where it was stated that Knox came home every day to shower? I can't find it.

I did find where it was stated that Merideth liked a clean bathroom so had probably cleaned it after AK started spending so much time at RS's. JMO

 

[Amber29]

:waitasec:

results on beige bag:

page 46

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/testimonianza2.pdf

Borsa in tessuto di colore beige=Fabric bag beige=VITTIMA:A/B/C= victim

On page 40 what could this be?


Sostanza gommosa di colore bianco=White gummy substance=sostanza salivare neg.=salivary substance neg.=NEGATIVO

I'm not sure. Is there an English version of this somewhere? I don't use google chrome.

 

[miley]

:waitasec:

results on beige bag:

page 46

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/testimonianza2.pdf

Borsa in tessuto di colore beige=Fabric bag beige=VITTIMA:A/B/C= victim

On page 40 what could this be?


Sostanza gommosa di colore bianco=White gummy substance=sostanza salivare neg.=salivary substance neg.=NEGATIVO

white paint or makeup from her Halloween costume? It seems like I may have read that somewhere.

 

[Harmony 2]

I'm not sure. Is there an English version of this somewhere? I don't use google chrome.

I supplied the google translation to english...

 

[Myvice]

The fact that two independent tests by two teams of experts couldn't confirm Stefanoni's strange result will be significant for the value of the kitchen knife as evidence.

The test performed by RIS was extremely sensitive, much more then Stefanoni's. They managed to divide the sample and test it yet found no Meredith's DNA.

Maybe one way our thoughts don't come together is that you're looking more at the evidence that the jury will use to decide if there is reasonable doubt and I'm looking more at anything that I personally find pertinent to innocence or guilt.

As we know, in many trials there are numerous things that aren't allowed into evidence, yet people following the case are aware of them through the media etc.

Stefanoni's finding of MK's blood may or not mean anything to you but it does to me in trying to decide innocence or guilt simply because RS made up the story about pricking MK to cover his butt.

 

[Amber29]

I supplied the google translation to english...

You're right sorry :blushing:

I'm glad Miley answered because I had no idea. I had never seen this.

 

[SMK]

Maybe one way our thoughts don't come together is that you're looking more at the evidence that the jury will use to decide if there is reasonable doubt

(bolded and snipped by smk)
One thing I've come to understand, is that this appeal trial in Florence is not a typical trial where the jury is asked to rule by reasonable doubt.

As I have learned, the Supreme Court of Cassation in Italy in this instance is looking for a broad, comprehensive, evaluation in light of the original convictions and in light of the complete annulment of the Hellmann court due to errors in logic and inconsistencies; they ask Judge Nincini to make a full revaluation:

And can there any longer be any doubt - when one reads the closing paragraph - of what the Supreme Court of Cassation are asking Judge Nincini to do?

Judgment of the Supreme Court of Cassation of Italy; Motivation Report - English Translation; P 99

"In conclusion, the challenged judgment must be annulled due to the numerous deficiencies. . . and manifest lack of logic indicated above. . .the remanded judge will have to remedy the flaws in argumentation. . .
...each piece of evidence sums up and integrates with the others in the overall assessment. The outcome of such an organic evaluation will be decisive, not only to demonstrate the presence of the two defendants at the crime scene but also possibly to clarify the subjective role of those who committed this murder with Guede against a range of possible scenarios , going from an original plan to kill to a change . . . involving the young English girl in a sexual game against her will [ . . . ]which violently took another course. "

 

[MichaelSmith]

This is untrue. I don't know who wrote this wikispace but that's not how it worked.

His original conviction sentence was 30 years that was not the reduction.

Judge Micheli on page 101 of his report http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/2008-10-28_Itl.pdf wrote:

Venendo dunque, e infine, al trattamento sanzionatorio, per effetto dell'aggravante contestata è giocoforza pervenire alla pena dell'ergastolo, senza tuttavia la ricorrenza di ulteriori addebiti che possano determinare l'isolamento diurno; ne deriva la sostituzione con la pena di anni 30 di reclusione, stante l'opzione per il rito abbreviato.

Meaning: Without the occurrence of additional charges that may result in the daytime isolation, (guess whom Guede has to thank for that?) the penalty must be life (ergastolo) due to the aggravating circumstances. The "life" sentence is replaced by a "30 years" sentence because of the abbreviated procedure aka fast-track-trial.

Take a closer look at Art. 442 c.p.p. No. 2 describes Guede's sentence...

Alla pena dell'ergastolo è sostituita quella della reclusione di anni trenta. Alla pena dell'ergastolo con isolamento diurno, nei casi di concorso di reati e di reato continuato, è sostituita quella dell'ergastolo.

And from the Borsini-Belardi-translation http://borsinibellardi.wordpress.com/contents/reasons-for-the-decision/

Taking into account such elements, the Court holds such mitigating circumstances can be accepted. It observes, indeed, that his life spent so far drifting, has not compromised in an irreparable way the defendant’s personality, considering also his young age and despite the difficulties endured, that have marked his infancy, with a severe and frequently absent father and a mother that abandoned him forever from the moment of his birth.

It must also be mentioned that, due in part to the positive influence of his friend Giacomo Benedetti, Guede expressed right from the first contacts his intention to return to Italy to hand himself over to the police and, once arrested in Germany, without hesitation he gave his consent to be handed over to the Italian authorities.

In addition, he was the only one of the defendants to apologize to Meredith’s family, even if referring only to his lack of help to her [in her dying moments], as was recognized by the lawyers of the girl’s relatives who participated as civil parties.

Then, apart from the attempt to staunch the flow of blood from the wound and the proof that it was not he that held the knife that was compatible with the worst of the lesions, it should also be remembered that Guede was the only one, even if in a somewhat fanciful reconstruction of events, to indicate the perpetrators.

Guede got his reduction on appeal because he blamed Amanda and Raffaele...