Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#11

[quesarita]

Now if he is not the lone wolf, where do Knox and Sollectio fit in? I had always thought perhaps it was Amanda who allowed him in the front door, then she took off, and Kercher came home. Then perhaps she returned. It's not an easy thing to fit in, and I do hope the evidence can be trusted......

So.... in that case Amanda and Raffaele are not present during the murder and rape, which would explain why no indication of blood was found on any of their clothing or persons; but then why would they feel any need for "cleaning up"?

I still feel there is a huge hole in the clean-up scenario - namely any evidence of rags, cloths, towels, paper, mop, sponge etc. showing traces of blood. All of the bloody towels are in Meredith's room, correct? and they don't show traces of bleach or cleaning agents or even wiping stains? Oh wait, I think the evidence of the towels was destroyed, correct?

I disagree that Amanda or Raffaele could have driven around Perugia to find a place to throw things away without being seen or caught on camera somewhere.

 

[SMK]

hmmm....this is becoming very reminscient of Jodi Arias case (sorry, Redhead). I remember Juan Martinez constantly brought up that how come this large and more powerful male could not catch her running down the hallway. I think the same thing regarding this. Also, why would she run all the way back into a corner? (I know I have mentioned this before, sorry to repeat). IMO, she would have gone straight back to the front door, I don't think at that moment she would be thinking about keys or whether it is locked, at that moment she would be in fight or flight, and it does not seem natural for someone to run themselves into a corner. JMO.

That also doesn't account for the staged burglary evidence.

I do not believe Amanda would just give her keys to Rudy for no reason and let him go there, why would she and RS just not go with him? It seems like they did not have many friends and were looking for people to hanging out with anyway, as evidence by Amanda's book where she talks about Halloween night or whatever night it was, and she didn't have anyone to hang out with.

Or....why would she and RS just not invite him back to RS place? They were already eating fish anyway for dinner, they could have just shared some with him. Or I'm sure RS had other food in his fridge. Also he had a toilet he could use.

"Also he had a toilet he could use." :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In the Arias case, Travis was shot first, and rendered incapable of chasing the little female. I always did wonder, though, if Arias had "help".

I guess locking yourself in the bedroom and calling 112 makes sense to me, but not others.

I meant, Amanda let him Guede in with very bad, criminal intentions. It is possible...... :waitasec:

 

[aa9511]

I don't even know for sure what I would do in that situation, much less Meredith. If I had 3 roommates and any one of them COULD have come home even if I didn't expect them that night, I probably would not have checked in the other rooms, certainly not the bathroom.

If I had a creepy feeling, my instinct may very well have been to head for my personal space where I would feel safest (regardless of whether that was actually safer). It's horrible that Meredith was attacked in her own bedroom.

But it was not like this was a mansion or a big house. It was a tiny cottage.

Filomena and Filomena bathroom light would be on. That would suggest Filomena is home. Filomena was not expected home at all, she was away. It would be different than Amanda, who Meredith already knew was in town. Would Meredith not care that Filomena came home unexpectedly early, just go back into her room and not check or say anything to Filomena?

Filomena room and Filomena bathroom light on, but Amanda possibly the one at home, would also signal for Meredith to check things out. Why was Amanda in Filomena's room? What was she doing in there? Why was Amanda using Filomena's bathroom?

If I had a creepy feeling, I would not just go into my room in the back corner of the house, without checking anything out. JMO.

 

[Footwarrior]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of a clean up.

 

[aa9511]

"Also he had a toilet he could use." :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In the Arias case, Travis was shot first, and rendered incapable of chasing the little female. I always did wonder, though, if Arias had "help".

I guess locking yourself in the bedroom and calling 112 makes sense to me, but not others.

I meant, Amanda let him Guede in with very bad, criminal intentions. It is possible...... :waitasec:

Oh, I see (about the bad intentions).

In the Arias case, remember Jodi said she dropped the camera, Travis got mad and lunged at her, she started running, he was chasing after her, they went through the closet, where Jodi did a leap and grabbed the gun from the top of the shelf, they ran back into the bathroom, Jodi turned and pointed the gun at Travis and made him stop.

That's when she shot him, although she didn't think she really actually even shot him, and then she did things with a knife which she didn't remember.

 

[SMK]

So.... in that case Amanda and Raffaele are not present during the murder and rape, which would explain why no indication of blood was found on any of their clothing or persons; but then why would they feel any need for "cleaning up"?

I still feel there is a huge hole in the clean-up scenario - namely any evidence of rags, cloths, towels, paper, mop, sponge etc. showing traces of blood. All of the bloody towels are in Meredith's room, correct? and they don't show traces of bleach or cleaning agents or even wiping stains? Oh wait, I think the evidence of the towels was destroyed, correct?

I disagree that Amanda or Raffaele could have driven around Perugia to find a place to throw things away without being seen or caught on camera somewhere.

Well, in this scenario which I had pondered (and which most don't believe) Amanda and Raffaelle had given Rudy access to the cottage, telling him it was OK to rob it (Amanda was thinking of leaving anyway to live with Sollecito) and to take the rent money. They even hint (as they are angry at Meredith over some altercation earlier) that if Meredith is there, why not hit on her?

Once they find out he murdered her, they panic.

They stage a burglary but in my scenario there is no clean up as they did not participate, but they know that legally, they can get years (perhaps 15 or more) of time for setting up a disaster which killed a girl.

People tell me they would have "come clean" by now, but how can you when everyone has gone to bat for you(parents mortgaging their houses, media, experts, all proclaiming your innocence???) Besides, if they had told the truth, Mignini would have said it places them at the scene by proxy.

I feel my scenario is easier to prosecute as there is no clean up, a simple simulation, and Guded is still the lone wolf, but one that was let loose by Amanda.

Also, a linguistic analyst has said that he believes Amanda is telling the truth when she says, "I did not steal; I did not rape; I did not kill"---yet he believes she shows signs of deceit when asked about prior knowledge. This fits my theory.

At this point, though, she has placed all the blame on him, realizing that he had no right to take it as far as he did, and realizing that her intent was never murderous.

 

[aa9511]

I would agree that if guilty Amanda still would not want to flee (and if she did not want to, neither would Raffaelle). They had each other to love, their studies, their fun, and I think Amanda had fallen in love with Perugia, and probably was falling for Sollecito, too.

Perugia was old hat to Rudy - and he knew that his prints were on file with the Immigration Office. He had to split. His mistake was the Skype call, as it gave him away. Who knows, if he had friends, say, in Athens or somewhere, he might have vanished and never been found and extradited.

In any event, Amanda did not want to return to Seattle, and why go hang in Germany with Aunt Dolly, when the action was in Perugia? Obviously, if she is innocent, then she stayed because there was no reason on earth to leave. But if guilty, I can still see her not wanting to go back to Mom, Dad, or Aunt Dolly. :waiting:

Yes, this part in her book I actually believe was the truth - when she was saying her parents, Aunt Dolly, everyone was urging her to leave, and yet she didn't want to. She had only spent a week with Raffaele and wanted to spend more time with him. She had waited a long time to be able to do this study-abroad. It seemed like what she was writing there was actually coming from her heart and was the truth - that she wanted to stay in Perugia - she wanted to enjoy the rest of her time there and enjoy being with Raffaele.

I believe it was Quesarita who also made this point a while back.

I do think now, that this was something she thought she could get through and come out of with her life the same and everything intact. Just a brief pause, if you will. She could just hit re-play once the investigators latched onto the burglar story, a burglar I think she never thought they would actually find. Case closed. Play.

 

[SMK]

Yes, this part in her book I actually believe was the truth - when she was saying her parents, Aunt Dolly, everyone was urging her to leave, and yet she didn't want to. She had only spent a week with Raffaele and wanted to spend more time with him. She had waited a long time to be able to do this study-abroad. It seemed like what she was writing there was actually coming from her heart and was the truth - that she wanted to stay in Perugia - she wanted to enjoy the rest of her time there and enjoy being with Raffaele.

I believe it was Quesarita who also made this point a while back.

I do think now, that this was something she thought she could get through and come out of with her life the same and everything intact. Just a brief pause, if you will. She could just hit re-play once the investigators latched onto the burglar story, a burglar I think she never thought they would actually find. Case closed. Play.

Yes, I would agree - especially when I look to my theory, in which she (rightly) places most of the blame on Guede (i know you don't believe my theory but I just trotted it out again for Quesarita :truce::moo:

 

[aa9511]

Well, in this scenario which I had pondered (and which most don't believe) Amanda and Raffaelle had given Rudy access to the cottage, telling him it was OK to rob it (Amanda was thinking of leaving anyway to live with Sollecito) and to take the rent money. They even hint (as they are angry at Meredith over some altercation earlier) that if Meredith is there, why not hit on her?

Once they find out he murdered her, they panic.

They stage a burglary but in my scenario there is no clean up as they did not participate, but they know that legally, they can get years (perhaps 15 or more) of time for setting up a disaster which killed a girl.

People tell me they would have "come clean" by now, but how can you when everyone has gone to bat for you(parents mortgaging their houses, media, experts, all proclaiming your innocence???) Besides, if they had told the truth, Mignini would have said it places them at the scene by proxy.

I feel my scenario is easier to prosecute as there is no clean up, a simple simulation, and Guded is still the lone wolf, but one that was let loose by Amanda.

Also, a linguistic analyst has said that he believes Amanda is telling the truth when she says, "I did not steal; I did not rape; I did not kill"---yet he believes she shows signs of deceit when asked about prior knowledge. This fits my theory.

At this point, though, she has placed all the blame on him, realizing that he had no right to take it as far as he did, and realizing that her intent was never murderous.

Interesting, SMK. So when would they have found out about the actual murder, then?

 

[SMK]

Interesting, SMK. So when would they have found out about the actual murder, then?

The night of Nov 1, when they come back to "see how it went" (to me, this can be fit into the timeline with the witness & the piercing scream which was heard : It was not Meredith, as she was already dead; it was Amanda , seeing Meredith dead and realizing what Rudy had done.

The man and woman arguing in Italian that was heard by the witness if Raff yelling at Amanda not to touch anything, not to cover MK with the duvet......

 

[quesarita]

Yes, I would agree - especially when I look to my theory, in which she (rightly) places most of the blame on Guede (i know you don't believe my theory but I just trotted it out again for Quesarita :truce::moo:

Hi SMK :blushing:

I agree that in your scenario, Amanda and Raffaele would not come clean about their involvement, but at the same time I think it likely that Rudy would have said Amanda invited him in, rather than Meredith.

I mean, why not? It would be the truth and would give him a reason to have been there. He can still deny involvement in the crime.

 

[aa9511]

Yes, I would agree - especially when I look to my theory, in which she (rightly) places most of the blame on Guede (i know you don't believe my theory but I just trotted it out again for Quesarita :truce::moo:

What I see in this case regarding Amanda is Amanda protects Amanda first and foremost. If your theory were the reality, I believe she would have given away Rudy immediately, she would not have done any clean-up, cover-up, staging. After all, we see her giving the blame to other people even for little things. She would certainly have no trouble giving the blame to someone else for a very big thing (understatement). I have to add b/c I know people are going to bring it up, that she did not give him away in her case because she did not want him speaking out about her - maybe she didn't think police would ever trace him, maybe she thought they might but they wouldn't catch him - but what she wanted was to have police just think someone other than them did it and they had nothing to do with it.

You don't think she could have played herself into innocent victim in that scenario, same way she is playing herself, JMO, into innocent victim in her case now? What about........ohhhhh, I knowwww, officer, you see, I always keep my keys in the pocket of my jacket, and they must have just fallen out somehwhere.....(batting innocent eyelashes). Fake-cry. I feel so terrrible!!!! Fake-cry, fake-cry. Wwhhhhhyyyy!???? God, Whhyyyyyy??

 

[quesarita]

Is there a time given for the piercing scream?

I see a time of 23:30 from a True Justice for Meredith site.

 

[SMK]

Hi SMK :blushing:

I agree that in your scenario, Amanda and Raffaele would not come clean about their involvement, but at the same time I think it likely that Rudy would have said Amanda invited him in, rather than Meredith.

I mean, why not? It would be the truth and would give him a reason to have been there. He can still deny involvement in the crime.

Well, he might not want to speak that truth, as he is privy to the knowledge that robbery/rape was intended. Better to pretend he had a date with Meredith..... and better to stick up for Amanda (as when he said she was not there) so she would not turn on him, either ( he maintained his innocence to the end, blaming another lone wolf, and only vaguely implicating Knox and Sollecito for Mignini)

 

[aa9511]

I didn't say after her death, but whilst she was dying. Guede dragged her to a position to sexually assault her. The drag marks in blood show that as do the aspirated blood droplets on Merediths bared breasts. Not to mention a pillow under her hips.

But it could also have happened before the assault with knife ever happened.

 

[SMK]

What I see in this case regarding Amanda is Amanda protects Amanda first and foremost. If your theory were the reality, I believe she would have given away Rudy immediately, she would not have done any clean-up, cover-up, staging. After all, we see her giving the blame to other people even for little things. She would certainly have no trouble giving the blame to someone else for a very big thing (understatement). I have to add b/c I know people are going to bring it up, that she did not give him away in her case because she did not want him speaking out about her - maybe she didn't think police would ever trace him, maybe she thought they might but they wouldn't catch him - but what she wanted was to have police just think someone other than them did it and they had nothing to do with it.

You don't think she could have played herself into innocent victim in that scenario, same way she is playing herself, JMO, into innocent victim in her case now? What about........ohhhhh, I knowwww, officer, you see, I always keep my keys in the pocket of my jacket, and they must have just fallen out somehwhere.....(batting innocent eyelashes). Fake-cry. I feel so terrrible!!!! Fake-cry, fake-cry. Wwhhhhhyyyy!???? God, Whhyyyyyy??

I see your point, but I am going on the presupposition that Knox had some genuine guilt feelings for the plan gone awry.......

 

[SMK]

Is there a time given for the piercing scream?

I see a time of 23:30 from a True Justice for Meredith site.

Yes, And they might have returned then--- the scream and the arguing could have both been from AK and RS being on the scene, and in a panic.......

 

[SMK]

What I see in this case regarding Amanda is Amanda protects Amanda first and foremost. If your theory were the reality, I believe she would have given away Rudy immediately, she would not have done any clean-up, cover-up, staging. After all, we see her giving the blame to other people even for little things. She would certainly have no trouble giving the blame to someone else for a very big thing (understatement). I have to add b/c I know people are going to bring it up, that she did not give him away in her case because she did not want him speaking out about her - maybe she didn't think police would ever trace him, maybe she thought they might but they wouldn't catch him - but what she wanted was to have police just think someone other than them did it and they had nothing to do with it.

You don't think she could have played herself into innocent victim in that scenario, same way she is playing herself, JMO, into innocent victim in her case now? What about........ohhhhh, I knowwww, officer, you see, I always keep my keys in the pocket of my jacket, and they must have just fallen out somehwhere.....(batting innocent eyelashes). Fake-cry. I feel so terrrible!!!! Fake-cry, fake-cry. Wwhhhhhyyyy!???? God, Whhyyyyyy??

And although I see your point, I believe she knew to her core that somehow she had intended some sexual harm and that Guede was doing her dirty work. She strikes me as a masculine person, who came to her femininity late, and does not play the female easily.....

 

[Annella]

But it could also have happened before the assault with knife ever happened.

The alleged semen stain is on the pillow beneath Merediths hips. So you consider she lay there passively and allowed Guede to slash her throat in that position when all the evidence shows she was elsewhere in the room?

 

[aa9511]

I see your point, but I am going on the presupposition that Knox had some genuine guilt feelings for the plan gone awry.......

genuine guilt feelings....but would that not mean that she would, instead of doing staging/clean-up, instead have called ambulance to see if there was anything they could do for her friend? Upon discovery of the body? Before people say it, I am going to say Raffaele was with her and he would have known who to call.

I don't understand what are "genuine guilt feelings?" Yes...genuine guilt, as in she would want to not get implicated in anything. So she could have made up some lie, IMO. Try to make it seem like she did not do anything worthy of any guilt feelings.

For example, we were talking to Rudy by the basketball courts, maybe he took the key out of my pocket!?? Maybe the keys fell out of my pockets there, and he picked them up and decided to go and make himself at home at our house. Oh, the nerve of him!!! Fake-cry, fake-cry. Officer, how could this happen??!!!! Fake-cry. How could I be so gullible???!! Why was I not more careful??! Agggghhhhh. How could I have been so stupid??? Fake-cry, fake-cry. Hits head with hands. Hold head in her hands and wails. Throws fists in air. Hits herself in the head with hands. Etc., etc..

IMO, it would have been very easy for he to get out of that situation or at least, she would have thought she could fool the officers and it would be easy for her, with some good acting.

The only connection she would have to explain is how Rudy got her key, I believe she could have easily made up a story/lie for that, as we see, IMO, she has made up many stories and seems to be good at it. JMO.

My point is, playing the victim, she would not have needed to say she actually gave Rudy the key, she would have made up a story of how he managed to get it from her, making her thus totally blame-less.

No need for cover-up, staging, dealing with the blood and the mess. No need for her to do any work.