Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#11

[quesarita]

Well, it is just a theory. Just like the supporters of her innocence think that the prosecution's whole case is "just a theory," so this is like another theory.

So it's not okay to attribute negative characteristics to her, only positive ones?

"From actual descriptions of the way she lived and what she did, she seems to me like somewhat of an overachiever, a hard worker, team player, not exceptionally talented in any way, mildly insecure as many teenagers are, in good relationships with her sister, mother and a few close friends. Her overwhelming desire in her own words and by her actions was to be independent, to be her own person."
I am not going to ask for any specific references to that, because I realize that it is an acculmulation of things you have read, and I am not about to go and ask you to take the time to reference each point. But likewise, some opinions I may have formed are the result of the overall effect of different things I've read, which I can't point to specific refereces of. It is an accumulation.

Such as, I have noticed that she lies to get out of things. MOO. I have noticed a lot of little lies, not only some big lie. Little lie to get out of this, little lie to get out of that. Throughout the case, and in her book. MOO. I don't think this is just a sudden thing having come about from this case. I think it would be a somewhat subtle pattern in her life, which leads me to........

the point of, we do not know what her family knows about her. Many people can be upstanding citizens, do all the right things, etc.., in public, but then have sides, or issues, to them, which only the closest few know about. I would think her immediate family, as in Mom, sisters, and Dad would be aware of these issues if there are.

Of course, they are not going to say anything in public. Of course, they believe some issues she might have would have nothing to do with this case, or they are independent of what she is going through right now. But they are not neutral, they have clear bias towards Amanda, just like the Kerchers' will have clear bias towards Meredith, it's only natural.

I make another comparison to Jodi Arias case, where even with all the media attention, we have not heard anything about any past issues she might have had, personality-wise, lying-wise, playing-the-victim-wise, getting out of things-wise, etc., etc.. Does that mean she did not have any? No, I don't believe so. It's just that those who know about it, obviously aren't going to talk about it. And she probably did not show her issues in front of her friends, so they might not even know about it. She probably appeared completely normal to everyone. Only the family would know, IMO.

Yet we saw over and over in Jodi's case, little lies here and there to get out of this and get out of that. Lies made up on the spot. Like no big deal. Like it has been a pattern for her throughout her life.

And yet, we have heard nothing negative about her past.

People with issues no matter how small or how big, and everyone has them, they don't normally show it to the outside world, such as school friends, sports teams, etc..

No, I don't think the problem with quoting negative attributes is that they're negative - the problem for me is that they seem to come out of thin air because people are trying to come up with a motivation for her to wish harm. I look for supporting testimony of some kind, and I'm not finding it.

I'm not that familiar with the Arias case, but IIRC there was someone who claimed to be an ex-boyfriend who said she stalked him in the same way:

"HLN host and journalist Jane Velez-Mitchell revealed new details about the Jodi Arias murder case, telling "Extra," "The biggest thing I found out that didn't come up in the trial is that Jodi Arias had stalked another boyfriend before… many years before... in pretty much the exact same way that she stalked Travis Alexander and terrorized Travis."

 

[SMK]

I would also like to add that I have seen statistics somewhere, I can't remember where, maybe it was in the Arias case, where it said that personality issues usually "come to a head" in the 20's....by the thirties and onwards, it is usually that the disorder does not display itself in a violent or I guess, a form where it is actually very destructive.

Meaning that, there might be some issue through childhood and adolescence, but it is more reserved and sort of an undercurrent in your personality. However, in the 20's, I guess with the hormones and all, this is the peak time when it can sort of, show itself in a destructive way. Then it goes back down again in the 30's and onwards.

Yes, this is absolutely true.

 

[SMK]

I still find it hard to believe, I wonder what kind of evidence was there to such course of events. Anyway, if true, it seems some dysfunction was in play that goes far beyond grudges between flatmates. Especially that by all accounts the flatmates got along fine.

Well, I can assure you, this scenario did play out in the 1980s, in my family. The person was caught, and the connections were verified. It doesn't mean it played out in Perugia, but of course it came instantly to my mind when this Kercher case became famous. I am only using my own case as an illustration that there are certain "squeaky clean" college students who are living a double life: Involved with darker elements from the drug world. My own family member was a Raffaelle type: Bespeckled and studious and into drugs and other dark things.

 

[Katody]

Well, I can assure you, this scenario did play out in the 1980s, in my family. The person was caught, and the connections were verified. It doesn't mean it played out in Perugia, but of course it came instantly to my mind when this Kercher case became famous. I am only using my own case as an illustration that there are certain "squeaky clean" college students who are living a double life: Involved with darker elements from the drug world.

The connections were verified. Do you see the distinction? It's extraordinary that they seemingly catch murder collaborators and no connection can be shown.

 

[SMK]

The connections were verified. Do you see the distinction? It's extraordinary that they seemingly catch murder collaborators and no connection can be shown.

I hate to harp on my own family history, but my family member whom I will call X so as not to violate privacy, had a kind of drug/friendship connection with this guy which I can imagine existed between RS and Guede: X actually knew this guy from a park-like hang out, and X was a Sollecito type: Sweet boy with a dark side.

Now consider:

• Guede lived 1 minute's walk down the street from Sollecito's apt, where Amanda and Raff were spending a lot of time
• Guede also hung at the basketball courts, where drugs could be bought, and which was on the way to the cottage
• Guede was taken by Meredith's prettiness
• Guede had smoked pot with AK and MK downstairs
• Guede came into LeChic
• Sollecito had drug problems such that his father threatened rehab
• One does not call or text this kind of connection as one does not want to leave an electronic record -- one meets face to face

 

[Amber29]

bbm

Oh, Katody. Again, thanks for putting extra words in my mouth and pretending like I said things which I didn't say. If it's something you think, why don't you just say it as coming from you, instead of someone else? I believe you are free to express your own opinions, instead of adding words to someone else's. For example, I never agreed to the things you said. You are saying that coming from what you think, so I would appreciate it if you stated it's coming from you, instead of making it seem like I said I agreed with you that nothing makes sense in our theory.

And I believe you are missing my point, anyway. It just makes me feel like I am back in school with a teacher having to give graded tests, is all. Makes it not feel like a discussion, you know what I mean? Not like a real discussion with other people. JMO. That is just what I feel like so I have said it. I used to enjoy the thread a lot more, honestly, because it did not feel so much like school-work. I have never tried to be a prosecutor for Amanda Knox, I just come on here to discuss the case like regular, normal people. Not any expert, I have never claimed to be one, obviously.

ITA and thank you for this post! When my words are twisted to something I didn't say I feel like :banghead:

It's counter productive to a discussion.

 

[whoanellie]

I hate to harp on my own family history, but my family member whom I will call X so as not to violate privacy, had a kind of drug/friendship connection with this guy which I can imagine existed between RS and Guede: X actually knew this guy from a park-like hang out, and X was a Sollecito type: Sweet boy with a dark side.

Now consider:

• Guede lived 1 minute's walk down the street from Sollecito's apt, where Amanda and Raff were spending a lot of time
• Guede also hung at the basketball courts, where drugs could be bought, and which was on the way to the cottage
• Guede was taken by Meredith's prettiness
• Guede had smoked pot with AK and MK downstairs
• Guede came into LeChic
• Sollecito had drug problems such that his father threatened rehab
• One does not call or text this kind of connection as one does not want to leave an electronic record -- one meets face to face

There is no evidence and no testimony that Raffaele and Rudy had ever met. Raffaele has stated that he never met Rudy. No one has ever contradicted that claim.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry2-----a.html

 

[whoanellie]

Yes, he was a college-aged adult, an honor student, living in the home where he and our mother resided. And he gave a Rudy Guede type (nice young black guy, very smart, but a druggie and criminal) information as to how to get in there, on a certain night etc. But our mother was home (she wasn't supposed to be) , and it became a rape and near-fatal assault. The only reason I mention it is because it was real for me, and I can see it becoming real for others.

This must have been a very traumatic event for you and your family.

I do suspect there was a relationship between your family member and his friend that simply was not the case with Amanda/Raffaelle and Rudy.

How did the facts behind the assault your mother suffered come to light? If a similar thing did happen to Meredith why is there no evidence?

 

[SMK]

This must have been a very traumatic event for you and your family.

I do suspect there was a relationship between your family member and his friend that simply was not the case with Amanda/Raffaelle and Rudy.

How did the facts behind the assault your mother suffered come to light? If a similar thing did happen to Meredith why is there no evidence?

Well it was, but it was back in the 1980s so has become a part of the past. I understand that just because it happened in my family, does not mean it happened with Sollecito, Knox, and Guede.

I am just trying to give a frame of reference for why I find such "secret connections" to be believable.

In our case, the guy was stopped by police (he was black, and that was enough for them, as the description my mother gave was a young black man) and was found to have items from our house in his car (jewelry and tech items) and when interrogated he spoke about how he was given knowledge by X. He was arrested for break and entry, rape, assault, theft and convicted. *He was also identified in a lineup by my mother and another family member who knew of him. There were legal ramifications for X as well.

My belief is that there might have been a connection with Guede not seen by others and not leaving a record of texts or emails. "Black man found, found guilty" is sometimes the truth.

 

[aa9511]

Yes, he was a college-aged adult, an honor student, living in the home where he and our mother resided. And he gave a Rudy Guede type (nice young black guy, very smart, but a druggie and criminal) information as to how to get in there, on a certain night etc. But our mother was home (she wasn't supposed to be) , and it became a rape and near-fatal assault. The only reason I mention it is because it was real for me, and I can see it becoming real for others.

Oh, SMK, I'm so sorry this happened to your mom, to your family, and to you.

 

[aa9511]

I still find it hard to believe, I wonder what kind of evidence was there to such course of events. Anyway, if true, it seems some dysfunction was in play that goes far beyond grudges between flatmates. Especially that by all accounts the flatmates got along fine.

Or, like SMK said, it could have been mainly directed to get at Meredith. Maybe he was supposed to mainly take a lot of Meredith's valuables, and other flatmates would be victims incidentally.

I don't know, just speculation obviously, on this particular theory.

 

[Katody]

I hate to harp on my own family history, but my family member whom I will call X so as not to violate privacy, had a kind of drug/friendship connection with this guy which I can imagine existed between RS and Guede: X actually knew this guy from a park-like hang out, and X was a Sollecito type: Sweet boy with a dark side.

Now consider:

• Guede lived 1 minute's walk down the street from Sollecito's apt, where Amanda and Raff were spending a lot of time
• Guede also hung at the basketball courts, where drugs could be bought, and which was on the way to the cottage
• Guede was taken by Meredith's prettiness
• Guede had smoked pot with AK and MK downstairs
• Guede came into LeChic
• Sollecito had drug problems such that his father threatened rehab
• One does not call or text this kind of connection as one does not want to leave an electronic record -- one meets face to face

Guede lived, Guede hanged, yet never exchanged phone numbers with the two and no one even saw them hanging around together or even talking. Guede had smoked pot once with the pot growing guys downstairs. Guede showed up once in Le Chic of which we know only because Amanda was honest and truthful about it. Lumumba vehemently denied knowing Guede.
Raffaele had no drug problems. They both were tested and no drugs were detected. There is no evidence Guede was dealing drugs, he was a burglar.

You cannot build a case solely on fantasies/theories. There is some actual evidence needed at some point.

 

[SMK]

Oh, SMK, I'm so sorry this happened to your mom, to your family, and to you.

Thanks x - its in the past now, but it does seem to come to mind when I ponder Guede and AK and RS.

 

[SMK]

Guede lived, Guede hanged, yet never exchanged phone numbers with the two and no one even saw them hanging around together or even talking. Guede had smoked pot once with the pot growing guys downstairs. Guede showed up once in Le Chic of which we know only because Amanda was honest and truthful about it. Lumumba vehemently denied knowing Guede.
Raffaele had no drug problems. They both were tested and no drugs were detected. There is no evidence Guede was dealing drugs, he was a burglar.

You cannot build a case solely on fantasies/theories. There is some actual evidence needed at some point.

I realize this, yes, but I do believe Sollecito admitted to being stoned "80 percent of the time" and that Dr. Sollecito had threatened rehab. Amanda admits smoking pot with MK and Guede downstairs. The connection is not hard to make. I am not saying there is any proof, but there is something to be inferred there.

 

[Katody]

Or, like SMK said, it could have been mainly directed to get at Meredith. Maybe he was supposed to mainly take a lot of Meredith's valuables, and other flatmates would be victims incidentally.

I don't know, just speculation obviously, on this particular theory.

Only the relationship between Amanda and Meredith was perfectly good, without animosities. Amanda was in the middle of romance with Raffaele, spending every evening with him. They finished watching "Amelie" and suddenly decided to "get at Meredith". Yeah OK.

 

[aa9511]

The only problem is that there never was any personality disorder or we would have heard about in court.

bbm

Ok, I don't know if I am right about this or not, but I believe personality-things would come in for self-defense cases. Or else, in further phases such as death penalty consideration, after the guilty verdict has already come in.

So I guess if the defendant claims self-defense or mentally ill or something of the sort as their defense. Not sure, though, exactly how the law works on that in US, much less in Italy.

 

[SMK]

I had noticed, and now see it is confirmed by Hendry, that the glass shards were almost neatly stacked on the sill.

I cannot imagine Guede doing this during a break-in, nor can I imagine Knox and Sollecito doing this during a simulation:

 

[aa9511]

Thanks x - its in the past now, but it does seem to come to mind when I ponder Guede and AK and RS.

Yes of course, naturally it would. Hugs.

 

[SMK]

Only the relationship between Amanda and Meredith was perfectly good, without animosities. Amanda was in the middle of romance with Raffaele, spending every evening with him. They finished watching "Amelie" and suddenly decided to "get at Meredith". Yeah OK.

Of course it could never have happened that way. No one believes that. An earlier altercation would had to have occurred in the afternoon. It would have had to serve as a catalyst for repressed tendencies.

 

[Katody]

I realize this, yes, but I do believe Sollecito admitted to being stoned "80 percent of the time" and that Dr. Sollecito had threatened rehab.

I highly doubt there is a reliable source for this, originating from the case file.

Amanda admits smoking pot with MK and Guede downstairs. The connection is not hard to make.

When we forget to mention there were three other guys there that the girls actually knew well. Presentation is everything, isn't it? Amanda and MK smoked with their neighbors and Guede happened to be there. He was an acquaintance of the guys downstairs, not a friend of Amanda or Meredith.