Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[redheadedgal]

I didn't realize her hair had been pulled. That seems much more like a female thing to do IMO.

then why do self defense videos like this exist?

Self Defense from a Rear Hair Pull - YouTube


and questions like this found on discussion sites?

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140109151103AAvoW5v

 

[otto]

Nevertheless, Meredith was "petite" (can't find her true ht.,grrr) and Rudy was 5'-10", and male. Even if they were both athletic, he would have the advantage.

Is there anything to support the point that Guede was athletic?

 

[SMK]

He is the same age as Knox and at the same point in his life as Knox. His studies in becoming a chef fell through when the restaurant where he was apprenticing went out of business. He wasn't an elite athlete, and given his drug use (like Knox), he wasn't spending five hours a day at the gym. He was hanging around, eating junk food at the local kebab vendor, getting stoned, and going to the pubs. He's 5'10", which is an average height. There is nothing about Guede that says "powerful". Knox and Guede were the same age and seemed to have the same lifestyle, and there's no way that anyone would describe Knox as "powerful".

I have never read anything about there being a blow to the head in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Yes, all quite true.

No, not a blow to the head; Hendry's summary of the pathology report of Dr. Lalli says that "she suffered a hard blow to her nose and lips which resulted in significant swelling before she died" and that there was no obvious outer abrasion with this injury.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry7.html

 

[quesarita]

Is there anything to support the point that Guede was athletic?

He played on a semi-pro basketball team in Perugia, sorry I closed the link already. It was a wikipedia article. It said he pretty much gave up on school but kept up with the basketball team.

 

[SMK]

Is there anything to support the point that Guede was athletic?

Other than shooting hoops at the courts, nothing in particular. He did use large amounts of pot and liquor which is dehydrating and not exactly condusive to building focus and stamina.

He was not in "training mode" any longer with his basketball, and had fallen into lethargy and a life of petty crime.

In these 3 photos, one can well see why Mr. Kercher was taken aback by the sloping shoulders and slight build of the criminal. The last one is particularly waif-looking.

 

[otto]

He played on a semi-pro basketball team in Perugia, sorry I closed the link already. It was a wikipedia article. It said he pretty much gave up on school but kept up with the basketball team.

Was he part of the team at the time of the murder, or was that from when he was younger prior to going to Milan to study?

 

[otto]

Other than shooting hoops at the courts, nothing in particular. He did use large amounts of pot and liquor which is dehydrating and not exactly condusive to building focus and stamina.

He was not in "training mode" any longer with his basketball, and had fallen into lethargy and a life of petty crime.

In these 3 photos, one can well see why Mr. Kercher was taken aback by the sloping shoulders and slight build of the criminal. The last one is particularly waif-looking.

He's shorter than everyone else in the photos!

 

[Harmony 2]

Yes, all quite true.

No, not a blow to the head; Hendry's summary of the pathology report of Dr. Lalli says that "she suffered a hard blow to her nose and lips which resulted in significant swelling before she died" and that there was no obvious outer abrasion with this injury.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry7.html

Both of these sites mention bruises or an area of trauma to the head.


http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Multiple_Attackers


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/ronhendry7.html

 

[SMK]

He's shorter than everyone else in the photos!

Right, and not only shorter, but has a slighter build than the men around him.

 

[sherlockh]

I think the mistake is on your side.

The stomach empties into the duodenum. Lalli said that ToD is at most 2-3 hours from the meal because the stomach was full and there was nothing yet in the duodenum. I.e. the emptying hadn't started yet.

As I quoted before, no gastric emptying into duodenum occurs post mortem.

He doesn't say that. If he had drawn conclusions from the empty duodenum then it would have been explained. If you read his whole story then it is perfectly clear he is talking about the total emptying time of the stomach being 2-3 hours and therefore usually death would be 2-3 hours after eating because the stomach was not empty. But it is a quote taken out of context as he continues to explain that it is very unreliable and that there are other factors to be considered.

Massei report

He added, however, that the digestive process is influenced by many factors like the type of meal, cold, stress, physical conditions and so on, and that to his knowledge there were no reliable studies that could establish "by how much the digestive process can be changed by these factors" (page 86).

So basically there is only a contradiction if you take his words out of context. He says that gastric emptying starts fairly quick. If there had been such a rare 3 hour delay he would certainly have explained it. That is just common sense. It is not really explained why most experts ignore the empty duodenum except by Professor Umani Ronchi.

He specified that gastric digestion is very much debatable insofar as time is concerned. The presence of 500 cubic centimetres of material in the stomach meant that a large part of the stomach had not emptied. He could not, however, say whether it had partially emptied. On this particular point he specified as follows: &#8218;It is true that the duodenum was empty; however, it is also true that there was some alimentary content before the ileoececal valve, alimentary content which is defined as digested ... that of the stomach was also digested for the most part and since the examination performed by the person who carried out the autopsy does not appear to have been conducted according to the prescribed techniques of forensic pathology, i.e., the ligature of the various segments etc. ... usually ligatures are done to see how far food has reached to prevent the passage<of any ingested food into lower zones during the lifting up and turning over of the intestinal ansae loops&#8219; (page 21 of the transcripts).

Besides this, the alimentary remnants in the small intestine must also be considered, and thus, as hypothesised by Professor Umani Ronchi, it would be possible to think that these remnants could have been found in the duodenum either because of an imperfect apposition of the ligatures, or because of an apposition of the ligatures that took place with such manner and timing as to make it impossible to avoid a sliding of material from the duodenum to the small intestine. The fact [that the] duodenum [is] empty is not [necessarily] fully reliable.

So there is no reason to assume something very rare happened with Meredith. And certainly not that this rare occurrence ended after exactly 3 hours. There is also the possibility Meredith ate something at home, but it seems that the experts in the trial do not find the empty duodenum very reliable and therefore do not consider it. JMO.

 

[SMK]

Both of these sites mention bruises or an area of trauma to the head.


http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Multiple_Attackers


http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/ronhendry7.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the nose and lips, the scalp, and the areas under the ears (bruising, swelling). Not a blow to the head as occurs in blunt force trauma.

 

[Harmony 2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the nose and lips, the scalp, and the areas under the ears (bruising, swelling). Not a blow to the head as occurs in blunt force trauma.

It specifies the rear of the scalp.

 

[SMK]

It specifies the rear of the scalp.

Yes, but this is where the swath of hair was pulled, violently .

 

[Harmony 2]

Yes, but this is where the swath of hair was pulled, violently .

page 140 Massei

She strikes her head in the occipital seat, turned around automatically by the attacker, who was holding her towards the right&#8219;.

http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf

link

 

[TorisMom003]

Does anyone really know how they will react when faced with a situation where there is an attacker with a knife aimed at them? Sometimes training goes out the window when in a real life and death situation. A parent is going to hope and pray that their child fought like hell to save themselves, perhaps to make themselves feel a little better, but that doesn't mean that it happened. We will never know if Meredith used her training or not, RG will never tell the truth about what happened and what he did.

 

[SMK]

page 140 Massei



http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf

link

I understand. Thank you.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Absolutely there should have been defensive wounds. Meredith was a strong, fit, healthy woman trained in martial arts. She was a serious Erasmus student at the University. She smoked pot on occasion, but that was not the norm. Marijuana has not been reported as her favorite vice. It's not possible to be a serious students and be a drug head. Meredith was there to study, not party. So we have a strong, fit, healthy, serious, bright student that is confronted with violent people in her home. There is no way that she would look at a knife and say "okay, you got me, do what you want". I don't believe that for a moment.

Does anyone believe that Knox would have said "okay, you got me, do what you want"?

This image of "Saint Meredith" some people have baffles me. I see it on the other forums all the time. She was a normal girl who partied hard in the pubs, had sex and smoked pot like a lot of college kids. She was picked up for druken disorderly in the UK. No big deal. She did one year of karate lessons when she was 16.

I'm not sure she was an Erasmus student either because an old article has direct quotes from the director of the program in Perugia saying she wasn't.

 

[Harmony 2]

Did Meredith have a hard blow to her head?

Guede is 5'10" and he looks a bit skinny. He wasn't working and it doesn't seem like he had a lot of money. Other than throwing the basketball around, I doubt he got much exercise off the dance floor. I would not describe him as "powerful".

Meredith's father said that Meredith would have fought hard, and that she was a strong, fit woman trained in martial arts. I doubt that a threat would have caused her to simply give up the fight for her life.

Chandra Levy was shorter than Meredith and very physically fit as she worked out four times a week. Her convicted killer, Ingmar Guandique, was only 5 feet 9 inches with a weight of 165 pounds.

http://www.vidaenelvalle.com/2013/01/18/1407139_more-twists-and-turns-in-the-chandra.html

When Rossmo looked into Chandra's case, he became particularly interested in Guandique and the violent crimes he committed in Rock Creek Park. Rossmo noted that around the time of Chandra's disappearance, the Salvadoran immigrant lived on the outskirts of the park and attacked two women with a knife on isolated trails that traversed steep inclines. Such serial attacks were rare in the park, and they had stopped after Guandique was arrested.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/specials/chandra/

One of the women Guandique attacked was 6 feet tall. I think looks can be deceiving. Small men can be strong and powerful. We have had several men of smaller statue lift, move and carry our heavy huge armoire or furniture down a flight of stairs.

 

[otto]

page 140 Massei

"She strikes her head in the occipital seat, turned around automatically by the attacker, who was holding her towards the right&#8219;."

http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf

link

The Massei Report context for the head injury is that after Meredith had been attacked and stabbed, she fell to the ground and her head hit something. I understood the earlier remarks to be implying that she was deliberately hit in the head by her attackers. Falling to the ground after being attacked and stabbed is a different situation than receiving a head injury as part of the attack.

"She is bleeding from an arterial wound, she is no longer breathing and she falls. She strikes her head in the occipital seat, turned around automatically by the attacker, who was holding her towards the right&#8219;."

Pg 140 Massei Report
http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...ttachments/MasseiReportEnglishTranslation.pdf


Additionally, as far as I can understand, this seems to be part of the hypothesis presented by a defense lawyer.

"Professor Francesco Introna, forensic pathologist and consultant for Raffaele Sollecito's defence, testified at the hearing of June 20, 2009."

Pg 130
http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...ttachments/MasseiReportEnglishTranslation.pdf

 

[otto]

The head injury is introduced by the prosecution as an explanation for why Meredith was not attacked in her bed. That debate has come up here more than once, the debate about whether Meredith was in her bed when she was attacked. The fact that there was no evidence of bleeding from a head injury on the bed, and she was fully dressed, is used to explain that Meredith was not attacked in bed. I guess the prosecution is thinking that if she was attacked on the bed, she would have been fully assaulted on the bed and not had bleeding by the wall.

If defense lawyers argued that Meredith's head injury was a result of falling after a major artery was severed and she stopped breathing, doesn't that mean that they want to downplay the head injury? Was there haemorrhaging in the brain? Was there a wound on the outside of the head and does anyone know what that looked like? It seems that Hendry had the photos ... does he have that one? If she hit a sharp surface as she collapsed, what surface? Was there bleeding from that head wound?

Meredith had to study for an exam. Had she taken the book she borrowed out of her backpack? If not, what was she doing prior to the attack ... knowing what she might have done would help figure out when she was murdered. If she had taken the textbook out of her backpack, maybe she was studying. Is she hadn't taken the textbook out of her backpack, perhaps she was attacked closer to the time that she arrived at home.