Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#12

[quesarita]

Just making a note here:

I am open to guilt, which is why I continue to entertain the idea of it.
I am not sure of it, but lean toward it.

The best way I can express it is:

Certain clues, though small in themselves, reveal a cohesive narrative of what may have happened in the cottage involving to some degree, Knox, Sollecito, and to a greater (I believe) degree, Guede.

These are not wholly contradicted by the forensics, or by the presence of Mr. Guede.

Remember that Guede was NOT just a stranger, an anonymous "Burglar X":

He was known to Giacomo and the others downstairs; he supplied them with pot and drugs; he partied with them; he smoked and spoke with Amanda and Meredith downstairs; his apartment was one minute's walking distance and on the same street as Sollecito's; he was a regular at the basketball courts.

I understand that, but leaning towards guilt and following that narrative requires following through to certain conclusions. How and why does Rudy go along with being made to leave such abundant evidence and then also protect them from his testimony?

 

[Myvice]

I understand that, but leaning towards guilt and following that narrative requires following through to certain conclusions. How and why does Rudy go along with being made to leave such abundant evidence and then also protect them from his testimony?

IMOO, RG knew his goose was cooked with his fingerprints in blood. He was able to convincingly tell a story that put himself outside the actual murder. What good would it do him to make statements regarding the actual murder and being put in the position of having to answer questions as to who did what? The story he told doesn't put him in a position to have all the information so keeping quiet helps him maintain his innocence in the murder. He will be punished regardless of whether he involves AK and RS because of his DNA at the scene. It does nothing FOR him to delve into the rest of the crime.

 

[SMK]

Qunitavalle being right the first time or the second time ?

:furious: .... :furious:

 

[Katody]

Just making a note here:

I am open to guilt, which is why I continue to entertain the idea of it.
I am not sure of it, but lean toward it.

The best way I can express it is:

Certain clues, though small in themselves, reveal a cohesive narrative of what may have happened in the cottage involving to some degree, Knox, Sollecito, and to a greater (I believe) degree, Guede.

These are not wholly contradicted by the forensics, or by the presence of Mr. Guede.]

Partially then?

Remember that Guede was NOT just a stranger, an anonymous "Burglar X":

He was known to Giacomo and the others downstairs; he supplied them with pot and drugs; he partied with them;

What evidence is there of him supplying them? That's news to me.
How many times did he party with them according to the evidence?

 

[SMK]

Partially then? Yes. or gives the appearance thereof



What evidence is there of him supplying them? That's news to me.
How many times did he party with them according to the evidence? It was in Follain's text. Giacomo said he was their supplier and often stayed for the party. Amanda says she and Meredith smoked with him downstairs.

:furious: :furious:

 

[SMK]

I understand that, but leaning towards guilt and following that narrative requires following through to certain conclusions. How and why does Rudy go along with being made to leave such abundant evidence and then also protect them from his testimony?

In my theory, Guede - although drawn into a prank by Knox and Sollecito - played the bigger part and thus may have even been in the room alone with MK or for most of the time. He knows it's his own fault as he was the one who became more violent and sexual that night......:moo:

 

[Myvice]

RG would have had the smaller knife and I think I remember from the autopsy that one of the wounds from that night looked to be caused by MK being pushed into it.

Also, a wound from the large knife didn't go in as deeply as it could have, showing some hesitance or possibly unwillingness.

If MK was pushed into RG and the knife accidently cut her, it could have set the wheels in motion of having to "finish her off" however unwillingly.

 

[SMK]

Actually, I was just reading elsewhere about the luminol traces and am becoming more convinced that these show Knox and Sollecito to be perhaps fully involved.....

As we are not allowed to copy/paste from other sites or the Wiki will have to try and synopsize the 3 main points (from the Wiki) in my own words:

1. It was said that to attribute luminol traces to turnip pulp is to ask the court to believe Knox and Sollecito applied this to their feet. There was no testimony about the spilling of fruit juice or other substances on the floors in the cottage.

2. Massei states that within the analysis of the luminol evidence shows "an abundant quantity of Mereidth's blood on the floor" and this can be tracked around the interior of the cottage. There would be no other obvious source of luminol-reactive substance. Luminol works for CSI specifically because the other substances it reacts to are rare in abundance at crime scenes.

3. It was ruled by the court that if one were to say that the luminol was reacting to other substances( vegetable pulp, fruit juices, rust, bleach, etc.) this would in no way provide a satisfactory explanation for why the presence of reactive trace was found throughout various rooms in the cottage. The stepping in blood and staging do explain these.

Thus was it concluded that these footprints belong to the defendants and were made in the victim's blood, placing them at the crime scene.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Luminol_Traces

Questions: Does anyone know if the cottage was in a high-rust area, in terms of water quality?
and why do some sites say that the footprints did not test positive for blood? Wherefore the discrepancy?

 

[otto]

Actually, I was just reading elsewhere about the luminol traces and am becoming more convinced that these show Knox and Sollecito to be perhaps fully involved.....

As we are not allowed to copy/paste from other sites or the Wiki will have to try and synopsize the 3 main points (from the Wiki) in my own words:

1. It was said that to attribute luminol traces to turnip pulp is to ask the court to believe Knox and Sollecito applied this to their feet. There was no testimony about the spilling of fruit juice or other substances on the floors in the cottage.

2. Massei states that within the analysis of the luminol evidence shows "an abundant quantity of Mereidth's blood on the floor" and this can be tracked around the interior of the cottage. There would be no other obvious source of luminol-reactive substance. Luminol works for CSI specifically because the other substances it reacts to are rare in abundance at crime scenes.

3. It was ruled by the court that if one were to say that the luminol was reacting to other substances( vegetable pulp, fruit juices, rust, bleach, etc.) this would in no way provide a satisfactory explanation for why the presence of reactive trace was found throughout various rooms in the cottage. The stepping in blood and staging do explain these.

Thus was it concluded that these footprints belong to the defendants and were made in the victim's blood, placing them at the crime scene.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Luminol_Traces

Questions: Does anyone know if the cottage was in a high-rust area, in terms of water quality?
and why do some sites say that the footprints did not test positive for blood? Wherefore the discrepancy?

I've asked the queston a few times, without an answer. I would say that the water in Perugia is not high in iron. Limestone is found in the area, and I don't see any information suggesting that it is high in iron.

Additionally, if the water was high in iron, and that caused shower users to track invisible footprints throughout the cottage, we would have seen footprints all over the place, not just Knox's prints in the hallway and near Meredith's bedroom door.

 

[SMK]

I've asked the queston a few times, without an answer. I would say that the water in Perugia is not high in iron. Limestone is found in the area, and I don't see any information suggesting that it is high in iron.

Additionally, if the water was high in iron, and that caused shower users to track invisible footprints throughout the cottage, we would have seen footprints all over the place, not just Knox's prints in the hallway and near Meredith's bedroom door.

Thanks, Otto. I plan to keep looking to see if there is anything online talking about the iron content of Perugia's water. BBM- What about what Professor Halkides says about Knox's prints showing as she was profiled, and the other girls were not? Just trying to cover all the bases.......

 

[SMK]

@otto
I found this blog page - what do you think of what they are saying about the water content? (it does mention the limestone but other things as well?)

http://oneyearinperugia.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/our-apartment-in-perugia/

 

[quesarita]

and why do some sites say that the footprints did not test positive for blood? Wherefore the discrepancy? [/B]

Because luminol can react with other substances, it is considered a presumptive test, and a positive result shows a location which is then tested for blood. They used a TMB test in the cottage which gave a negative result for blood.

 

[SMK]

Because luminol can react with other substances, it is considered a presumptive test, and a positive result shows a location which is then tested for blood. They used a TMB test in the cottage which gave a negative result for blood.

So that info I read on the wiki, that these are the defendants footprints in the victim's blood, is not true?

 

[otto]

Thanks, Otto. I plan to keep looking to see if there is anything online talking about the iron content of Perugia's water. BBM- What about what Professor Halkides says about Knox's prints showing as she was profiled, and the other girls were not? Just trying to cover all the bases.......

It's a fairly small cottage and prints can be revealed with luminol weeks after the prints were made. All four women should have left prints covering every part of the hallway, bedrooms and other living spaces. Its impossible that only one set of prints would be visible if high iron content in the water was a cause.

 

[quesarita]

So that info I read on the wiki, that these are the defendants footprints in the victim's blood, is not true?

Well, they tested negative for blood and for DNA. And they were right next to Rudy's visible shoe prints that did test positive for Meredith's blood.

 

[otto]

@otto
I found this blog page - what do you think of what they are saying about the water content? (it does mention the limestone but other things as well?)

http://oneyearinperugia.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/our-apartment-in-perugia/

I grew up in the country where we had well water. There was high iron content in the water. High iron levels in the water leaves a yellow residue on everything. The blog mentions a white residue, so that's not from iron.

 

[otto]

Because luminol can react with other substances, it is considered a presumptive test, and a positive result shows a location which is then tested for blood. They used a TMB test in the cottage which gave a negative result for blood.

That doesn't mean that it's not blood.

 

[SMK]

I grew up in the country where we had well water. There was high iron content in the water. High iron levels in the water leaves a yellow residue on everything. The blog mentions a white residue, so that's not from iron.

Well, she does say the Perugia water is high in calcium and iron magnesium. Would the iron magnesium effect the luminol reaction? :tears:

 

[otto]

Well, she does say the Perugia water is high in calcium and iron magnesium. Would the iron magnesium effect the luminol reaction? :tears:

I don't believe that anything in the water caused Knox alone to leave foot prints around the cottage.

 

[quesarita]

I have a question for anyone with more technical forensic knowledge:

If Amanda stepped on the bloody footprint on the bath mat, or even in washed away blood in the shower, would there be enough transferred to the bottom of her foot and then to the floors from that contact? Considering Luminol is so much more sensitive than TMB or other tests for blood and can detect blood to a sensitivity of 1 in 1,000,000 parts on the low end and 1 in 100,000,000 parts on the high end.